SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

[Chilon]

Cynthia vs Ash:
cynthia vs ash would make a lot of sense but it would hit the series hard because: Cynthia has always been the best trainer even in the Sinnoh, Unova and Alola regions. I would really like a fight between the two because I can already see Pikachu fighting Garchomp and Ash again thinking up a strategy like against Hapus Mudsdale. I would even give Cynthia other tools here like Legendary. Latios or Latias. I do not know. But we should expect a lot here and Pokemon should also fulfill all that Cynthia was a character that was often present who was not only a mystery like Lance but was also seen on vacation. I have to say this just brings us closer to the character we are seeing here.

 

[Chilon]

Do you also see it like that?

 

[puddleths]

If Iris beats Cynthia, would that not make her the stronger opponent for Ash to get to Leon?

 

[Daren]

If Iris beats Cynthia, would that not make her the stronger opponent for Ash to get to Leon?

In theory, however we already saw Ash defeat Iris earlier this series, while a battle with Cynthia would be more exciting since he's never beaten her (actually have they even had one at all?), and as a bonus it could be seen as a final bit of BDSP promotion as well.

 

[Chilon]

Final bit of BDSP promotion.

Thats right.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

If Iris beats Cynthia, would that not make her the stronger opponent for Ash to get to Leon?

Iris......isn't beating Cynthia. She'll put up a fight, to be sure, but she's not winning.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

actually have they even had one at all?

Nope. Ash has never actually faced Cynthia directly. He's only fought people who fought her (and lost).

 

[Imtnt]

If Iris beats Cynthia, would that not make her the stronger opponent for Ash to get to Leon?

It makes Semis rank 8 vs rank 7.. Maybe ash will be for Iris the strong opponent in her way to beat Leon herself

 

[MimeyTheKeeper]

Iris......isn't beating Cynthia. She'll put up a fight, too be sure, but she's not winning.

That's it.
Frankly...as the start of Master Class Tournament is nearing, I start to feel...partly hollow...towards it?
Even couple months ago I voiced my fears that Leon vs Ash will be overshadowing everything too much.

Don't get me wrong. I am very ecstatic that we are getting all these matches, Champions against each other and I am quite sure many of them will be memorable battles.
But it is almost impossible not to envision how much better it could be without overbearing "this is just prelude to Ash vs Leon in finals" sentiment.
We are probably subconsciously trying to pretend that it is not there, that outcomes of battles are open, but it definitely is to some degree

Seems like too much waste. 25 years Anipoke used Champions very sparingly and now we will see many of them battle each other multiple times. That's simply too much on small scale and I could not see that it will be without some (diminishing) impact.

I caught myself thinking how I would really enjoy Leon vs Alain in other circumstances. Alain, despite him not being universally liked, has been setup like trainer who could put Leon under much pressure. Being it 6v6 with proper build up, I would not be quite sure if Alain would not be able to put down Champion. I would love to look forward to this match, speculating, eager to see the outcome. But with it starting rightaway, and possibly finishing in total of net one episode, knowing Leon is unbeatable and simply will win - it is hard to get excited.

We can say story is about Ash, but even then...seems like we are skipping and simplifying too much.
It shines even more after Alola, when we had other interesting matches that provided meaningful story on their own.

The same goes with (what probably will be) both prodigies against Cynthia. First Iris and then in all likelihood Ash himself.
Both matches could be terrific with proper build-up, taking into account Cynthia's popularity in Anime. With open-ended setup, it would be joy to look forward to both of them. Who will win? How? Which Pokémon they will use? Now we almost certainly know that Iris will lose and Ash will win and just hoping it would be engaging and convincing. But it would be hard not to be just footnote to Ash vs Leon.

That is the only matchup - Leon vs Ash, that is open, that we do not know who will win. Meaning, that is the only matchup where Journeys did the legwork to make every outcome viable and satisfying story-wise. Obviously, they could make Alain beat Leon this week if they wished, but apart from shock, it would be bad storytelling.

To underline my point with parable - it is like having you first vacation in Europe, where planning requires you to drive through Italy and France to arrive at Spain, where you would be enjoying the scenery. It would be hard to not see it wasteful to skip other two beautiful countries, despite Spain being wonderful. And that is how I start to feel about PWC, not that seeing Ash vs Leon is not the best treat in history of Anime in itself (Spain), but why on Earth should we breeze through other treats (Steven and Cynthia), that we did not get before and now it is too much to enjoy it all at once?

So, we will see after PWC ends if this feeling stands, but now it is something that is little bit souring my excitement of following episodes. Watching previews and Leon vs Alain, small anarchistic part of me just wishes for Alain to somehow flip the tables and win that match. But that will not happen.

 

[puddleths]

Iris......isn't beating Cynthia. She'll put up a fight, too be sure, but she's not winning.

You shouldn't set yourself up for disappointment by dealing in absolutes.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

You shouldn't set yourself up for disappointment by dealing in absolutes.

Not exactly an absolute, but.......call it a realllly strong hunch. Like others have said, Ash has fought her already and beaten her. You really want Iris to lose to him twice?

 

[puddleths]

You really want Iris to lose to him twice?

At this point? Absolutely. But it's not about what I want.

 

[Daren]

I think Iris will probably lose to Cynthia but I do agree with puddleths not to take anything for granted. This series loves pulling swerves and ignoring good opportunities to do something dull instead, and missing a battle between Ash and Cynthia for another Ash Vs Iris match would be just that.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Ash has faced a lot of Dragon-type specialists this saga, so him fighting and defeating Iris again is redundant in more ways than one (yes, Cynthia's ace might be Dragon-type but she's not a Dragon specialist as her teams are actually quite type-varied).

Basically, Cynthia's just the more interesting opponent for Ash in terms of buildup, established power, and novelty. I get that Iris is percieved as recieving undue favoritism from the writers, but I highly doubt they like her enough to let her beat Cynthia. Not only are the writers are probably well aware of how popular Cynthia is with the fandom, meaning letting her get eleiminated in the first round would be akin to starting an oil fire and expecting to not get burned, but she's currently much more relevant than Iris from a marketing standpoint due to BDSP and LA, so even if the writers wanted to disregard the fandom entirely and give Iris the win out of preference, the marketing executives likely wouldn't let them get their way.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

As of this episode, we know Champion Cynthia has her Garchomp, Roserade, Milotic, Gastrodon, Glaceon, and Kommo-o. I doubt they'll give her a Lucario, but I could see them giving her Spiritomb or Togekiss. My guess is Ash will deal with Spiritomb, Roserade, and Mega Garchomp. Or maybe Togekiss instead of Roserade.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

As of this episode, we know Champion Cynthia has her Garchomp, Roserade, Milotic, Gastrodon, Glaceon, and Kommo-o. I doubt they'll give her a Lucario, but I could see them giving her Spiritomb or Togekiss. My guess is Ash will deal with Spiritomb, Roserade, and Mega Garchomp. Or maybe Togekiss instead of Roserade.

I'm pretty sure that the reason they gave Cynthia the Kommo-o from Masters is precisely so she could have a Lucario stand-in due to Ash having one.

Though it is pretty funny that apparently three Dragonite users, two Charizard users, and possibly two Garchomp users in the Masters 8 is perfectly fine, but more than one Lucario user in the Masters 8 would somehow be overkill.

 

[Die-Hard Dragon Devotee]

I'm pretty sure that the reason they gave Cynthia the Kommo-o from Masters is precisely so she could have a Lucario stand-in due to Ash having one.

That's a good theory, BTW. Makes sense. After all, Kommo-o and Lucario are both Fighting types, so it doesn't change Cynthia's team composition that much.

 

[JinksChow]

That's a good theory, BTW. Makes sense. After all, Kommo-o and Lucario are both Fighting types, so it doesn't change Cynthia's team composition that much.

Hopefully, the writers are actually planning on having Cynthia use Kommo-o in the Masters Eight Tournament. Because as things stand currently, it might be the only Pokemon from Alola we see in the tournament.

Of course, that is still better than Johto Pokemon, which is very likely to see zero representation in the Masters Eight Tournament. Shame on you, Lance. You should at least use a Johto Pokemon in your team, given that you are also the Champion for Johto.

 

[FelipePR]

Of course, that is still better than Johto Pokemon, which is very likely to see zero representation in the Masters Eight Tournament. Shame on you, Lance. You should at least use a Johto Pokemon in your team, given that you are also the Champion for Johto.

Well, not only he is the champion of Kanto and Johto, he's also a native of the latter region, born in Blackthorn City, at least in games.

But to be honest, the only dragon in Johto is the kingdra, which is already its main cousin Pokémon. The Red Gyarados representation will have to be enough.

 

[Ghost Diplocaulus]

Well, I know it's probably a stretch, but remember that Iris's other two Pokemon aside from Haxorus haven't been revealed yet, so it is possible that she could whip out a surprise Johto rep. Possible. Not probable.