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SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

Ash is unprepared for Charizard and deserves to lose, which he will.

Actually I think the only promise of their 3 years buildup is that Leon's Charizard will go down. It is like his Charizard waiting to lose to someone, not just Leon.

BUT beating Charizard doesn't mean Ash will win the tournament. And it is more believable he won't. Still it might be just enough for the writer- to break the control of the broken monster no other champion could but Ash..
 
Just like he lost to Cynthia?

Edit: Ash may well lose to Leon, but people have been predicting he'd lose the next battle since the last Bea match.

The writer shakeup after XYZ or whatever else changed the show's structure may very well have led to a new status quo of Ash shifting to a more standard role of winning every series instead of losing them.
Should have happened after BW. Ash should have won the Kalos League.
 
They didn't hide it. They just wanted to focus on his two stars and portray them as nigh invincible. The idea that Rillaboom will play second fiddle to a random Mega or Z-Move is silly.
Just because Rillaboom doesn't get to use any gimmicks in Ash vs Leon doesn't mean it'll be playing "second fiddle" to a Mega or Z-Move; base Rillaboom could very well end up being so much of a threat that Ash has no choice but to use one of his gimmicks early just to deal with it, which would put him at a big disadvantage if Leon has all three gimmicks as well. We even have precedent for such a scenario: Raihan's Flygon proved so problematic for Ash that he had no choice but to change his gimmick from Mega Lucario to Gigantamax Gengar, so it's not hard to imagine Rillaboom pushing Ash into a similar corner.
 
Ash's Team: Pikachu, Dragonite, Gengar, Lucario, Sirfetch'd, and Dracovish

Leon's Team: Charizard, Dragapault, Rillaboom, idk about the other half but i’m assuming Aegislash, Rhyperior, and Inteleon possibly

How do you think the battle will go down?
 
I'm pretty sure that Ash is guaranteed to use at least one gimmick, since all the Masters 8 battles have had every Trainer (except Iris, since she doesn't have the right items required for them) use a gimmick, so there's no reason why this one would be different, especially when it has been billed as the "ultimate battle" in which Ash is facing the single most overpowered Trainer in Pokemon anime history who himself has a gimmick.

I think the real question isn't "will Ash use any of his gimmicks?", but rather "which gimmick will Ash use?", because there's arguments in favor of basically all of them:

Gigantamax Gengar is the only gimmick that Ash hasn't used in the Masters 8, so it would make perfect sense for it to get its turn against Leon, especially since Gigantamax vs Gigantamax battles have been oddly uncommon despite being the main gimmick of Gen 8.

Mega Lucario has been pushed as the ace of the Journeys team to the point that a past ace made a comeback specifically to train him and pass the torch to him. Not to mention that the opening shows Mega Lucario fighting Gigantamax Charizard.

Finally, 10.000.000 Volt Thunderbolt is the signature gimmick of Pikachu, who is Ash's main partner, so it would make perfect for Ash's ultimate battle to come down to his signature Pokemon vs Leon's signature Pokemon, both with their respective signature gimmicks.

The fact that all of Ash's gimmicks have so many points in their favor is the main reason for my belief that Ash will end up using them all against Leon... and why I also suspect that Leon might end up having the other two gimmicks as well.
 
Ash will have to use all three gimmicks in the final against Leon.
As for the prediction of the fight....
Leon maybe in heaven but he will leave (As the runner up) in 11
If Ash will get Leon around the bend he will end it in 10
Ash will be fine he will win it in 9
Leon maybe be great but he will leave (as the runner up) in 8
If he'll (Leon) wanna go to Heaven then he (Ash) will get him in 7
Leon will be in a worse fix if Ash will cut it in 6
barring any major mishaps if Leon keeps talking jive he will go in 5
same as the previous one if Leon makes Ash's pride sore then he'll (Leon) go like (Archie) Moore aka down in 4
same as the previous two if Leon keeps talking about Ash then Ash will get Leon in 3
same as the previous three if that won't do then Leon will fall in 2
and as same on the previous four if Leon will run he'll go in 1 and if Leon don't wanna fight he'll kept himself home that night
 
I can't believe I'm saying this given how it started, but Ash's Dragonite better get a clean KO against someone on Leon's team. I don't understand why the writers have been jobbing her lately.
Unfortunately, it seems that Dragonite is Journeys' equivalent of Turtwig/Grotle/Torterra: both started their respective series with absolutely fantastic showings to the point that they could be argued to be the aces of their teams, only to get horrible losing streaks just to make a new ace look better...

I'd argue that Dragonite's case isn't as bad as Torterra's, though, if only because multiple underused Pokemon have benefited from Dragonite taking losses, whereas Torterra losing pretty much only ever benefited Infernape...
 
Unfortunately the anime really does lean hard into "hero" mon who need to be really strong and get multiple KOs in every major battle and that means designated fall guys, even in the climax battles you'd hope would be where the protagonists who have been followed for 3+ years get their chance to shine.
 
I'm pretty sure that Ash is guaranteed to use at least one gimmick, since all the Masters 8 battles have had every Trainer (except Iris, since she doesn't have the right items required for them) use a gimmick, so there's no reason why this one would be different, especially when it has been billed as the "ultimate battle" in which Ash is facing the single most overpowered Trainer in Pokemon anime history who himself has a gimmick.

I think the real question isn't "will Ash use any of his gimmicks?", but rather "which gimmick will Ash use?", because there's arguments in favor of basically all of them:

Gigantamax Gengar is the only gimmick that Ash hasn't used in the Masters 8, so it would make perfect sense for it to get its turn against Leon, especially since Gigantamax vs Gigantamax battles have been oddly uncommon despite being the main gimmick of Gen 8.

Mega Lucario has been pushed as the ace of the Journeys team to the point that a past ace made a comeback specifically to train him and pass the torch to him. Not to mention that the opening shows Mega Lucario fighting Gigantamax Charizard.

Finally, 10.000.000 Volt Thunderbolt is the signature gimmick of Pikachu, who is Ash's main partner, so it would make perfect for Ash's ultimate battle to come down to his signature Pokemon vs Leon's signature Pokemon, both with their respective signature gimmicks.

The fact that all of Ash's gimmicks have so many points in their favor is the main reason for my belief that Ash will end up using them all against Leon... and why I also suspect that Leon might end up having the other two gimmicks as well.
Why not all three? At the same time if that's possible?
 
I meant Leon using all three. Potentially even two or three on a single Pokemon at once.
I... mentioned that as well XD

tbh my stance in the "Leon has all the gimmicks" theory is one I'd be 110% love to see be the case, but at the same time I'm not sure how likely it reallistically is.
 
I meant Leon using all three. Potentially even two or three on a single Pokemon at once.
Wait, like at the same exact time? As in using a Z-Move while Gigantamaxed, for example? So, something like this?



If that is indeed what you meant by that, sure, :wynaut:? I'm as much for a little chaotic mayhem as the next guy, but the result would probably be catastrophic. Something akin to......this.
af9f1c9dbf7f7b02286fd9bb0f814b739051505e.gif
 
Found this on twitter

Really hope it isn't the case


We’re guaranteed episode titles this week, so hopefully we don’t have to wait much longer for this to be confirmed. If Ash vs. Leon starts in November, then it makes me wonder what’s going to happen in October. Regardless, I think it’s fair if they don’t want to rush into the Scarlet and Violet series if they want to give Journeys proper closure first.
 
Please note: The thread is from 6 months ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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