SPOILERS: Masters Eight Discussion/Speculation Thread

[puddleths]

What an absolute waste of a return

I'll agree if it doesn't result in Ash using Infernape. Paul just training Ash's current team because he now, conveniently, has a Garchomp would be terrible.

Not being in the Masters 8, or the PWC at all, is still quite the travesty.

 

[Sai]

Are we even sure that Garchomp is Paul's? For all we know Iris and Ash are having a training battle before the Masters 8

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Are we even sure that Garchomp is Paul's? For all we know Iris and Ash are having a training battle before the Masters 8

We're not. It just that the shots with Paul and Garchomp have similar backgrounds.

 

[puddleths]

Are we even sure that Garchomp is Paul's? For all we know Iris and Ash are having a training battle before the Masters 8

I posited that the Garchomp was Iris's when the preview first came out, but that was just wishful thinking. I'm pretty convinced since even those tiny snippets of the Paul shot and the Garchomp vs. Dragonite collision look like Iwane's handiwork.

 

[L-05308]

So how many, if any, full battles do we think Ash will battle in?

 

[nickdt]

I can feel the outrage coming when Ash defeats Cynthia, but loses to Leon. That would establish Ash and Leon as stronger trainers than Cynthia instantly.

 

[KrspaceT]

So how many, if any, full battles do we think Ash will battle in?

At a min, assuming Ash and Leon is an end point, three.

Pre leak, what I assumed to be the most logical progression would have been Ash battling Lance and Cynthia then Leon, as the two were built up over the course of the series, with a general expecation also that a Leon v Cynthia fight was logical. However Alain, Diantha, and Iris throw a curveball in, especially if Greninja is still in play.

 

[PokeMasterLA]

If Ash ends up battling Alain, I can see him temporarily bringing Greninja back on to his team. Similarly to when he brought Charizard back from Charicific Valley during some of his battles during OS/AG.

Seeing Ash battle (and defeating) Alain without his Greninja just doesn't feel right to me (my opinion).

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

I can feel the outrage coming when Ash defeats Cynthia, but loses to Leon. That would establish Ash and Leon as stronger trainers than Cynthia instantly.

I don’t care if Ash loses to Leon as long as he beats Alain with Greninja

 

[nickdt]

I kinda have a bad feeling with Iris and Alain being in though (Not that i mind), but its in usage of Pokemon.

Depending if they use in-game teams, this means we are going to see three Charizards (Alain, Lance and Leon).
3 Dragonite (Ash, Iris and Lance)
2 Haxorus (Iris and Leon)
2 Metagross (Steven and Alain)
Potentially 2 Garchomp (Iris and Cynthia)

I personally don't think we are getting 2 Lucario (Ash and Cynthia), since i think Cynthia's got replaced with Kommo-o.

I would personally appreciate if they give Leon a mix of game team with anime exclusive team at least. Let Charizard be his only non-Galar mon, so lets give him Mr. Rime, Rillaboom, Dragapult and Charizard as his in-game team and then let him have Dracozolt (Dracovish counterpart) and Sandaconda.

 

[DuskAstral]

If Ash ends up battling Alain, I can see him temporarily bringing Greninja back on to his team.

I think it would be a mistake to bring Greninja to the fight, because then Kalos will be left unprotected.

 

[SkyeMcFlye]

While I think there are way too many dragon types being used here, I am very proud of Iris for how far she's come.

This is probably considered blasphemy but I think Cynthia has become overused and I'm hoping we get a break from her for the next series.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

I don’t care if Ash loses to Leon as long as he beats Alain with Greninja

But MCX is too OP for Greninja.Since it got stronger in it's return expect the same for Alain's Charizard.

Out of the participants revealed I want to see how far Cynthia goes considering she was portrayed as the strongest champion a few series back.

 

[R1ke]

He’s probs fighting Alain, Cynthia and Leon then. I’m fairly confident that they’ll be at least 3v3 now, cause they can cram that into a single ep with some prior buildup. Otherwise just make them 2 parters like Bea. Imo Leon is surely a full battle, Cynthia is likely as well but I can see Alain as another 3v3

For aces I’m guessing Greninja will return against Alain and we’ll see the full transformation again. Then Mega Lucario for Cynthia and then Pikachu (with Z move or gmax) for Leon. I’d like Infernape for Cynthia instead but I’m not expecting it rn

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

If Paul wasn't in the PWC the only explanation better be because he chose to become a Frontier Brain which would tie in with his rematch against Brandon,any other reason is UNACCEPTABLE!!

 

[PokeFan2005]

My suggestions:
Quarterfinals:
Leon vs Steven
Cynthia vs Diantha
Ash vs Alain
Lance vs Iris
Semifinals:
Leon vs Iris
Cynthia vs Ash
Obvious final: Leon vs Ash

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

If Paul wasn't in the PWC the only explanation better be because he chose to become a Frontier Brain which would tie in with his rematch against Brandon,any other reason is UNACCEPTABLE!!

My current guess is he's maybe in the Ultra Class.

 

[-PokemonBattleFanatic-]

My current guess is he's maybe in the Ultra Class.

Seeing as how he has just as much experience as Ash does as a trainer,is equal or better to him in the skill department and was his strongest rival at the time (until Alain came along) he should be more than qualified to be in the Master Class.If Ash is capable of defeating champions and elite four why can't Paul do the same thing?

Back in BW anyone would laugh at the possibility of Iris being on the same level as Paul,but somehow she magically became Unova Champion but lost to Ash.Take away Alain's ability to Mega Evolve his Charizard I don't see much if any gap between him and Paul,the rest of his team is inferior to Paul's strongest pokemon (TEDUMH).The final nail on the coffin is the difference in skill,Paul far exceeds both in that category.

 

[MimeyTheKeeper]

OK, update after watching with subtitles.

(As many of you probably caught) Referee at the beginning of match states that "3v3 - unlimited switching - one gimmick" are rules also for Master Class.
I was hoping for full 6v6 battles, since there have been at least 2 in every league since Jhoto. Not counting Alola, new league, we saw all matches, many did not have at least 3 Pokémon, not 6. So it was understandable there.

Obviously, in-universe, it does not make a lot of sense. People are willing to fill stadium in Hoenn to watch kids battling 6v6, but could not see or endure their biggest stars for more than 3v3?

On the other hand there are hopefully two silver linings to this.
1. At least finals vs Leon will be 6v6 I hope, it would be travesty if it is not, although having to downgrade matches against Cynthia and Alain (where we have understandable agreement, that those two are paramount) to 3v3 is also sin enough
2. Hopefully, the reason for 3v3 is - frankly, imho the only one acceptable - to give Ash more than 3 matches in MC and to somehow cram them in not that many remaining episodes and also to give us more/bigger slices of other matches, since there will be many interesting ones.

It also serves more the gradual progression of opponents many are calling for. I noticed that even in case of bracket tournament tree and understanding of Alain - Cynthia - Leon matchup for Ash, many wish this order. Which is not very logical as I wrote before. First of all, it would be n.6 v n 8. pairing in quater-finals, which is not logical in bracket, where you have explicit seeding. You want top guys against lower guys, not against each other. Secondly, I have written this also in my Blueprint, I would not like to Leon's match to outshine Cynthia's too much. Having them one after another diminishes them. Having Cynthia first means starting on higher note, switching to Alain brings change of tone (from "how on earth will Ash defeat this unbeatable Champion" to "better not screw it up this time Ash") and imho makes better flow. Nonetheless, many would obviously like to see more progression, In case Ash has more than 3 matches, then it obviously is not bracket but something different. He will not challenge all of them, I consider that impossible, but some kind of ELO progression or Group?

Whatever they choose, then I suspect they will go for 5 matches and that means probably adding Lance and Steven to "necessary trinity of Alain-Cynthia-Leon".
This will also give enough spots for Ash's Pokémon to shine, since I am still hoping for some reserves (Infernape and Greninja are almost MUST)

In case you want some ARC and also reasonable (read explainable, logical and used in real world) tournament system, in light of 3v3 matches I would propose following:

I. Split Masters 8 in two groups and have round-robin, the best two go to semifinals (we have one precedent of this long ago in Jhoto)

Group A - Leon (n.1), Steven (n.3), Alain (n.6), Ash (n.8)

Alain vs Steven - Alain wins
Leon vs Ash (group stage) - Ash stomachs loss and is in difficult position
Leon vs Alain - Gigantamax beats Mega, nuff said
Ash vs Steven - Ash wins, or theoretically he can tie (even lose, but I would not go that way), let's say tie or win
Leon vs Steven - Leon wins, it is tedious, but UNBEATABLE champion, what can you do
Ash vs Alain - who wins takes the second spot in semifinals, Ash prevails

Leon and Ash go to semifinals

Group B - Cynthia (n.2), Lance (n.4), Diantha (n.5), Iris (n.7)

Here we have more options - obviously Cynthia wins the group, maybe by winning all 3 matches. With this setup, Iris can take on Cynthia (and probably lose) but also Lance (and probably win and being the best Dragon Master). Diantha is narratively least intersting champion here, she could take one win, but since we do not want to have Lance-Leon again, and Iris is almost main character as former companion, I would probably choose her to take the last spot.

Cynthia and Iris go to semifinals

II. Elimination bracket of TOP 4

Quite simple from now on

Cynthia vs Ash - Ash's biggest win to date
Leon vs Iris - emotional stake in match, but Leon's too powerful

And finals as everyone expects - Leon vs Ash

That gives Ash 4 matches (3v3) before Leon, they could even make also semifinals 6v6. Like, it's not they will be contradicting rules they stated for PWC first time in this series.

But more matches, group stage allows some defeats and added pressure to be showed in without too much predictability.

What do you think guys?

 

[Daren]

I never expected to see Paul in the Master Eight, myself. I always thought it was pretty likely the regional champions would snap up most of the slots; that would really only leave one "spoiler" spot and I thought it would more likely be a new rival or maybe Hop (edit: I also championed the idea of Giovanni for a bit). Alain did cross my mind but I was never certain on it.