[SPOILERS] The story of Sun&Moon

[vivian20]

Sun/Moon story is better than BW, in my opinion.

They were great in showing us that different regions have different cultures, and that the away of going to the league might also be different. The league, however, is to be equal everywhere in the world, just like in real world, some things have to be equal to be recognized worldwide.

Unlike some here, I like cutscenes, if they help to develop the story.

I disagree that lillie is anoying. I think she is much like Bianca. Both are unsure about herselves, rather weak, but bianca still has the guts to become a trainer. They both have parents that want them to obey them , and go out on a journey against their father/mother will. While N giving his dragon was terrible( hope its not cannon), it makes sense that Lillie gives Nebby to you. 1 you had the guts to go and save Nebby, while she didnt move at all. 2 . Nebby was shown to like you several times. 3. Lillie is not a trainer yet, and it wouldnt sound right if she started with a solgaleo. It wants to stay in the regular pokemon world, and it has to learn how to control its strenght. The player character is already one of the most powerful trainers in Alola, has already trained several powerful pokemon. N, on the other hand, had his own truth/ideal. He still wanted a world were people and pokemon are together without the need of pokeballs. But the player character from BW2 has no truth/ideal to pursue.

Hau, on the other hand, is weak, annoying, useless, and make me sick by speaking about malassadas.

Gladion is great, he turned out to be a good guy that was just trying to protect the pokemon he loved. He being somewhat frustrated and afraid of making friends makes sense, since it turned out that his mother didnt love him. It also makes sense that he works for team skull to know about their plans, what they would do.

Lusamine is similar to Gethsis . Both are bad parents and pretend to protect pokemon, but both actually make harm to the pokemon. They also are a true leader behind a fake team leader. Lusamine is smarter than gethsys in a way, because Ghetsis just lets his own grunts steal things, steal people´s pokemon, etc. So, people associate team plasma with bad things. Aether fundation pretends they are FOES of team skull, and people actually think they are good. If Lusamine didnt had that sinister grin that only we, outside of the game, could see, I would believe that she was good. And, no, Lusamine is not insane at least until the end, when she was in the nihilego world. Insane people dont manipulate several others to get what they want. I think she liked to control people, just like she overcontroled her childs. She changed when her husband left her, maybe because she couldnt control her husband, she wanted to overcontrol her kids even more. She is as manipulative and superficial as a psychopath. Psychopaths just cant love the way regular people love.Real love is when you want the other one to be happy. Psychopaths just care for their own happiness. If you ask a psychopath why he or she likes another person, he/she will say thats because of their appearance/ or because they feel sexual attraction for them. They just cant view others as living beings that have their own wishes. Lillie says that to lusamine by the end. Saying that Lillie is beautyful again is her way of saying she "loves" Lillie, because her love is superficial. She doesnt care if Lillie is hurt or not. She is just happy to see something that pleases her .

About people judging Lusamine, I dont think she is the worst. She just wanted to stay there in the nihilego world. Maybe she became adicted to the nihilego´s toxins.

Ghetsis did what she did, but also wanted to rule Unova just to rule, he didnt want to make a better world.

Cyrus wanted to kill everyone in the UNIVERSE to restart everything again. Even their pawns wouldnt be allowed there. I think he was a psychopath that want to make a world with people like him , without emotions, or with just mindless zombies to him play with them.

Lysandre thought that poor people made the world ugly and wanted to kill them all, when poor people kept wanting more and more from him.

Maxie/Archie are terribly silly, but they actually think they would make a better world. They arent actually evil.

Giovanny´s personality is not developed enough for me to say if he is a psychopath or not.

So, the evil rankig:

1- Cyrus
2- Lysandre
3- Ghetsis
4- Lusamine( she is above giavanny because she has more psychopath traits than him.)
5- giovanny
6- maxie/archie

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I don't think SM story is better than BW and B2W2 story. Unova games remains the best games with the best story and post game. SM is pretty decent though.

 

[vivian20]

Well, its a matter of opinion, but there are many people that thought the SM story was the best too.

Each generation has to be remarkable for something, and they are, at least until now.

Gen 1 first pokemon games

Gen 2 First new pokemon/first new region/you revisit kanto and battle the previous main character.

Gen 3 First time with two evil teams?First time you couldnt transfer pokemon from previous games? I think these are the worst main games. The vilains are too silly, there are no remarkble characters( at least, for me). I didnt remember wally existed until I played ORAS. And, yeah, lets make our kid go out explore the world alone, because he is SICK, has POOR HEALTH, its makes sense! And, of course, too much water. But for the first time, Game Freak knew they had a long term franchise , and started to explain how the pokemon world was built.

Gen 4: Wi-fi connection for the first time, no link cable! Also had the pokemon world´s origins in a large scale, most cruel team leader until now. It has the best pokemon myths , in my opinion.

Gen 5: First great pokemon story, first great characters. For the first time, i wanted to see the characters again, to know how they would do in the future. And I could! Because for the first time, they had sequels!We also learned how pokemon world´s politics work. The E4 and gym leaders are great social leaders too. For the first time , the main ethics issue of the pokemon world was adressed : pokemon battles and slavery. The premisse that a pokemon could just leave if it wanted fall in the sequels, when hugh´s sister liepard didnt left the shadow triad . In the end, i think that these game´s message is that in some cases pokemon are happy with their trainers, in some cases, not, and its not just black and white.

Gen 6: First 3ds games, with 3d models , no chubby characters on overworld, you can feed and pet your pokemon. There are some real world issues raised by this games, like lack of resources and increasing population.It had a good post game story with emma, a homeless girl, but rivals are quite plain.

Gen 7: First time without gym leaders and badges. Its good to see game freaks efforts to make the region unique. In alola, the social leaders are apointed by pokemon! A great story , memorable characters, and I love how they adress previous dex entries that talk about other dimensions, and basically say " now, we are going to explore these dimensions, and they have their own pokemon" . I know that they did that with giratina, but it was the only pokemon to live there. Aether reading myths in the canalave library to make type null was great too! It makes sense that if you want to make a very powerful pokemon, you do it based on the most powerful pokemon, arceus. Arceus might not have the best stats but its the most powerful pokemon inside that universe, since its the master of pokemons that can destroy the universe and the very space/time fabric! Scientists say that to make a wormhole, if its really possible, you need the energy needed to destroy a star.


From now, I think all pokemon games should have good stories, because good stories always make the games unique, and there are few things to make a gen memorable by now.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

SM are by far my favorite storyline in the game and I'm absolutely in love with Lillie's character and especially her new look. She's my favorite Pokegirl now. It was previously May in ORAS.

Also, do we have a concrete number of how much time has passed between XY -> SM? We know ORAS to XY is five years, I'd assume it's the same for SM?

 

[Esserise]

Also, do we have a concrete number of how much time has passed between XY -> SM? We know ORAS to XY is five years, I'd assume it's the same for SM?

The time between ORAS and XY is more in the area of 10 years.

The amount of time between XY and SM is never stated, but there is one thing that could sort of maybe point to it being a couple of years. My personal assumption for now is just a simple, real-time 3 years between them.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

The time between ORAS and XY is more in the area of 10 years.

The amount of time between XY and SM is never stated, but there is one thing that could sort of maybe point to it being a couple of years. My personal assumption for now is just a simple, real-time 3 years between them.

No there's several points in both games where it's mentioned to be five.

Yeah I'd be down for it to be 3-5 between XY and SM. Red and Blue look 18-21 which fits my timeline. Kanto takes place alongside Hoenn so they'd have been 11 in ORAS, 16 in XY, 19-21 in SM.

 

[Esserise]

No there's several points in both games where it's mentioned to be five.

Would you care to quote those?

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Would you care to quote those?

The only one I can think of right now without doing more research is that in XY there's a swimmer who says he took five years to swim from Hoenn to Kalos.

Then when ORAS came out you meet a similar swimmer that says he's going to attempt to swim to the Kalos region.

That's all I've got at the moment.

Edit: Oh, another thing to support this is a timeline tweeted out when XY came out that said BW2 = XY on the timeline. BW/Platinum happen around the same time, and obviously Platinum happens with HGSS, which happens three years after RSE/FRLG

Edit 2: Oh, one last thing! I believe that in SM, it is said that Anabel showed up 10 years ago after going through an Ultra Wormhole, if my timeline is correct, that puts RSE/ORAS as 10 years prior to SM, which lines up perfectly with Anabel's arrival in the Megaverse.

 

[Esserise]

The only one I can think of right now without doing more research is that in XY there's a swimmer who says he took five years to swim from Hoenn to Kalos.

He has two lines of dialogue before battle, which are as follows:

> "I swam all the way here from the oceans of Hoenn, and I'm still not too tired for a battle!"
> "Maybe I overestimated how much strength I had left in me!"

I cannot check his after-battle dialogue at the moment, but I am quite certain that it doesn't say "five years."

Then when ORAS came out you meet a similar swimmer that says he's going to attempt to swim to the Kalos region.

Although that was only in the demo, not in the full game.

Edit: Oh, another thing to support this is a timeline tweeted out when XY came out that said BW2 = XY on the timeline. BW/Platinum happen around the same time, and obviously Platinum happens with HGSS, which happens three years after RSE/FRLG

BW and Platinum do not happen at the same time. The most immediate reason being:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Additionally, we know that, as you say, HGSS and Platinum are contemporaneous. But the foreign Rocket grunt from the post-game of HGSS appears in BW, now with a young son, and says,

> "Oh! Member of Team Rocket I was, long time gone. But Team Rocket bye-bye a go-go. I my region went home. Make new Team Rocket, I did! So myself I pledged! But now I married am. Team Rocket there is no time by me. But happy family is big hooray!"

He refers to his membership in Team Rocket as having been a long time ago, and has had enough time to meet a woman, form a relationship with her, marry her, and have a child, who can speak clearly.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

He has two lines of dialogue before battle, which are as follows:

> "I swam all the way here from the oceans of Hoenn, and I'm still not too tired for a battle!"
> "Maybe I overestimated how much strength I had left in me!"

I cannot check his after-battle dialogue at the moment, but I am quite certain that it doesn't say "five years."



Although that was only in the demo, not in the full game.



BW and Platinum do not happen at the same time. The most immediate reason being:

Spoiler

Spoiler

Additionally, we know that, as you say, HGSS and Platinum are contemporaneous. But the foreign Rocket grunt from the post-game of HGSS appears in BW, now with a young son, and says,

> "Oh! Member of Team Rocket I was, long time gone. But Team Rocket bye-bye a go-go. I my region went home. Make new Team Rocket, I did! So myself I pledged! But now I married am. Team Rocket there is no time by me. But happy family is big hooray!"

He refers to his membership in Team Rocket as having been a long time ago, and has had enough time to meet a woman, form a relationship with her, marry her, and have a child, who can speak clearly.

Ok yeah so BW take place like two years after HGSSPl probably, I'm still not ready to believe that SM take place 10 years after XY. I will budge my timeline a little bit though.

Kanto/Hoenn -3 years-> Johto/Sinnoh -3 years-> Unova1 -2 years-> Unova2/Kalos -3 or 4 years-> Alola

That makes it 11 or 12 years total along the whole timeline. The reason I made it more than 10 is because it's said that Anabel came to Alola ten years ago. I doubt she came to Alola right after the events of RSE/ORAS, so I added a year or two for her to then disappear. You have a point about the events between Sinnoh and Unova1, but there's still no way Alola is 10 whole years AFTER XY when XY is at least 7 years after Kanto. Red and Blue look 20, not 30.

I always assumed the Rocket grunt at least already knew the women and perhaps she was even pregnant during their move to Unova. Of course that's all speculation. What isn't speculation is that SM does take place after XY, Red and Blue look like teenagers or young adults which is why I put the age of about 18-21 on them, and Anabel came through an ultra wormhole 10 years ago.

 

[The Outrage]

Regarding Zygarde's role in Alola:

Considering that Totem Pokemon and Ultra Beast's stat boosts say they are surrounded by an aura...you'd think that Zygarde's Aura break would result in stat boosts being reversed. I'm wondering if anyone's tested it, though I doubt the mechanic works that way...

 

[Esserise]

I'm still not ready to believe that SM take place 10 years after XY.

I never suggested that you should.

That makes it 11 or 12 years total along the whole timeline. The reason I made it more than 10 is because it's said that Anabel came to Alola ten years ago. I doubt she came to Alola right after the events of RSE/ORAS, so I added a year or two for her to then disappear. You have a point about the events between Sinnoh and Unova1, but there's still no way Alola is 10 whole years AFTER XY when XY is at least 7 years after Kanto. Red and Blue look 20, not 30.

There are basically no problems with:

FRLG/ORAS > 3 years > HGSS/Platinum > ~5 years > BW > 2 years > B2W2/XY > ~3 years > SM

That gives plenty of time for the Rocket grunt to start his family, and also allows for Anabel to have fallen through a wormhole 10 years before SM. From this perspective, she'd have fallen ~3 years after the main Hoenn story.

Regarding Zygarde's role in Alola:

Considering that Totem Pokemon and Ultra Beast's stat boosts say they are surrounded by an aura...you'd think that Zygarde's Aura break would result in stat boosts being reversed. I'm wondering if anyone's tested it, though I doubt the mechanic works that way...

You know, I had a similar thought about that. But I feel like somebody would have discovered it by now if Aura Break had been changed to work that way.

 

[jonathan keller]

This is random, but it is a spoiler. I FREAKING CALLED IT!!! I KNEW UB'S WERE POKEMON AFTER ALL!!!!!

But why all the lore behind them making them seem like they were something else, only to say that they are in fact pokemon from another dimension?

But once their description said that ultra beast were dangerous to both humans and pokemon. I knew that they had to be pokemon, humans are dangerous to people and animals, yet they're still humans.

They honestly gave it away with that sentence.

But good thing they're freaking strong

 

[EmpoleonProd]

There are basically no problems with:

FRLG/ORAS > 3 years > HGSS/Platinum > ~5 years > BW > 2 years > B2W2/XY > ~3 years > SM

That gives plenty of time for the Rocket grunt to start his family, and also allows for Anabel to have fallen through a wormhole 10 years before SM. From this perspective, she'd have fallen ~3 years after the main Hoenn story.

Yeah I'm good with that timeline. Personally I'd change the 5 year gap to 3 or 4, and change the 3 before SM to 4.

 

[Esserise]

But why all the lore behind them making them seem like they were something else, only to say that they are in fact pokemon from another dimension?

But once their description said that ultra beast were dangerous to both humans and pokemon.

The sentence that said they were a threat to both humans and Pokémon was pretty much the only "lore" that implied they might not be Pokémon. There really wasn't much said about them either way prior to release.

Yeah I'm good with that timeline. Personally I'd change the 5 year gap to 3 or 4, and change the 3 before SM to 4.

I mean, you can shape those two gaps however you like since the games never specify them. I personally just like having 3 years between XY and SM because that's the same as in real life, which is the same approach they took for both GSC and B2W2.

 

[vivian20]

After playing S/M, what do you think the next games will be? The S/M characters are memorable enough to make me want to see them again, but older. I would like to see Lillie as a great trainer and owning Nebby! The S/M player character could give it back to her if she returned as a great trainer. Maybe she would even become a champion! But not give nebby to the new player character, please!

 

[EmpoleonProd]

After playing S/M, what do you think the next games will be? The S/M characters are memorable enough to make me want to see them again, but older. I would like to see Lillie as a great trainer and owning Nebby! The S/M player character could give it back to her if she returned as a great trainer. Maybe she would even become a champion! But not give nebby to the new player character, please!

Kanto sequels seem to certainly be in order. Your family moves from Kanto in SM, Red and Blue make an appearance, Lillie leaves to travel Kanto, this would seem to imply her taking on the League Challenge over there, I wouldn't want her to be the rival though, it would be too weird. Perhaps she's a recurring senior trainer, much like Steven was in Hoenn, or Cynthia was in the Sinnoh games, a trainer you know is better than you and befriends you but you can't exactly call a "rival" by any means. I'm NOT implying that she should be the champion, either, it just so happens that "recurring senior trainers" ended up as champions in every scenario I could think of. It would be nice to get insight on how her Kanot journey goes though, just not sure if she should be the rival...

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Kanto sequels seem to certainly be in order. Your family moves from Kanto in SM, Red and Blue make an appearance, Lillie leaves to travel Kanto, this would seem to imply her taking on the League Challenge over there, I wouldn't want her to be the rival though, it would be too weird. Perhaps she's a recurring senior trainer, much like Steven was in Hoenn, or Cynthia was in the Sinnoh games, a trainer you know is better than you and befriends you but you can't exactly call a "rival" by any means. I'm NOT implying that she should be the champion, either, it just so happens that "recurring senior trainers" ended up as champions in every scenario I could think of. It would be nice to get insight on how her Kanot journey goes though, just not sure if she should be the rival...

Kanto again? I rather have Kalos in my opinion. SM's story doesn't lead to an adventure in Kanto in the future and I sincerely hope that Kanto remains absent for a while.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

Also, I just noticed that the strange souvenir is a buyable item in the city with the Battle Royales, I didn't find this myself but I was watching Marriland's playthrough and he bought one, I wonder if it will be important for anything? This at least proves what we already figured, was that the guy that gave us one in XY was from Alola, or had been to Alola, anyways.

Kanto again? I rather have Kalos in my opinion. SM's story doesn't lead to an adventure in Kanto in the future and I sincerely hope that Kanto remains absent for a while.

You're fairly wrong about that. SM's story does lead to Kanto because Lillie, the main character besides the PC, basically, is going there. Why would we go back to Kalos? Kalos is done. Kalos was always done besides the Zygarde plot which was finished up by Dexio and Sina in SM. You say "again" like this happened recently. We haven't had Kanto in going on seven years. The only region we've been away from longer is Sinnoh, which is eight years. I'm not asking for remakes either, I'm asking for sequels.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

You're fairly wrong about that. SM's story does lead to Kanto because Lillie, the main character besides the PC, basically, is going there. Why would we go back to Kalos? Kalos is done. Kalos was always done besides the Zygarde plot which was finished up by Dexio and Sina in SM. You say "again" like this happened recently. We haven't had Kanto in going on seven years. The only region we've been away from longer is Sinnoh, which is eight years. I'm not asking for remakes either, I'm asking for sequels.

Actually Kanto came back on virtual console but those were the original RBY games. Lillie going to Kanto doesn't mean a return to Kanto though. If not Kalos, then Sinnoh would be the next best thing. But that is my opinion.