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[SPOILERS] The story of Sun&Moon

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@Silktree I just read your post earlier. Yeah, this could make sense that there are two Looker and Anabel in this world now considering everyone else has a Mega Universe doppelgänger. What's weird though is that no one makes the connection between this Anabel and the Battle Frontier Anabel in Hoenn. It was heavily implied that the Frontier was going to be made at some point in the future as well...unless Looker became the Tower Tycoon over Anabel in the Mega Universe.

...which means Mega!Looker knows that the other Looker is a faller but obviously doesn't want to reveal himself. It makes for a pretty good cover as a secret agent if someone who looks exactly like you is in a high profile position acts as an alibi.

I guess we'll have to wait for a new game for us to see both Lookers in the same spot.

Does anyone feel like that Lillie is the one who should have ended up with Nebby (the mascot legendary)?

I know Lillie is not a trainer yet, but it feels so weird that after the close bond Lillie developed with Nebby and the game emphasizing their close bond, the story basically ended with 'Hey MC, Nebby wants you to catch it!'.

I mean, just look at the final image of the ending credits for Moon!!

If they were giving you a second Cosmog (who apparently evolves into the box legend anyway) they should have let Lillie keep Nebby.

there's always our headcanon that she did

Re: Looker in ORAS - Is it significant that he was carrying an Audinite? If he comes from the non-Mega timeline, then he shouldn't have any Mega Stones. Unless he had a rock in his pocket that managed to charge up with the newly-flowing natural energy, but that seems like a stretch. For one thing, I'd expect the process to take longer than that, at least based on the player's own Meteorite gradually becoming a Mega Stone.
The meteorite turned into a "mega stone" over time even before being exposed to the energy from the Cave of Origin. A lot of Mega Stones just started to randomly appear with no clear timeline after the Cave of Origin event so I don't really see why this is being held against the Looker theory especially since Looker having it seems like a pun based on Audino's (I don't know) name

 
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I do not believe that there are more than one Looker and Anabel. There is only one from what I can see. Multi-verse is still a theory and has yet to be proven or confirmed.
 
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Multiverse is as real as Solgaleo/Lunaala pre-evolution.

@Esserise
Alternate theory on why Wally looks the same: He's like that GoT actor Thomas Brodie-Sangster who literally looks like he stopped aging in his early-teens.

Or his character model was just easy to recycle since it was already made and GF was lazy....and we should really be talking about why Cynthia doesn't seem to age or why she didn't get an updated model since Game Freak had to make her model from scratch (like every other character).

Either way there's really so many other parsimonious explanations to Wally's age than moving the timeline of all events to be in line with XY. Obviously Mega Evolutions still existed in Hoenn even before Sycamore made his statement (Steven has a Mega Stone, the Eon dragons had a Mega Evolution despite being Hoenn natives even before the Primal event, and you got your starter mega stones before that event as well). So yeah...moving the timeline doesn't make Sycamore any more correct about anything he stated.
 
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Multiverse is as real as Solgaleo/Lunaala pre-evolution.
Actually no. Multiverse has not been confirmed in the games yet and is still a theory. It was only referenced in ORAS but nothing concrete to prove such a thing.
 
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The heavy-handed references and Anabel outright being from another dimension...obviously no evidence. None. At all. Solagleo/Lunaala pre-evolution also has no evidence.

Faller...That is what the International Police calls them. Humans who appear from an Ultra Wormhole... and those who are bathed in a great deal of the energy that pours out from them. She had come through a wormhole. She was from another world. And she was put on our team to help draw the UB to us...
Nope. No direct evidence. At all. Not even the fact that you literally went into another dimension (twice)...makes it completely impossible that the reference to a non-Mega universe is real. Nope, Game Freak, the people who makes the game just said that for absolutely no reason.
 
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The heavy-handed references and Anabel outright being from another dimension...obviously no evidence. None. At all. Solagleo/Lunaala pre-evolution also has no evidence.
No. Solgaleo and Lunala's pre-evolution are real and proven. Multiverse is still a theory. Another dimension is not the same as another universe. References are just references.
 
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And of course the Pokemon anime will continue troll everything and ruin the games multiverse views with an immortal 10 year old with amnesia.
The anime won't be using the XY & Z staff that had the onions to kill Lysandre, so I doubt we will even have Lusamine becoming the Mother Beast.

Also, does anybody agree she is easily the most sympathetic villain in the series as far as the big bosses are concerned? Her motivations are messed up but its clear she lost her damn mind. I ended up hoping the absolute best for her & Lillie.
 
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Also, does anybody agree she is easily the most sympathetic villain in the series as far as the big bosses are concerned? Her motivations are messed up but its clear she lost her damn mind. I ended up hoping the absolute best for her & Lillie.
The other villains weren't sympathetic at all, unless you count N as one.

It's rather refreshing that the climax is more about saving Lusamine and Guzma than saving Alola. The characters aren't that worried about the emergence of the Ultra Beasts.
 
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Multiverse has been confirmed by Zinnia in OR/AS. It is not a reference, it is a fact.
It's been 7 generations and people still don't take incredibly obvious hints because...apparently unless it's outright stated its not what Game Freak intended even with heavy-handed references. I remember in Gen III days when people debated Giovanni's child and legitimate theories included Misty when the reference was strongly pointing towards Silver. And that one was more subtle than this.

Now? We had Gen IV showing alternate dimensions. But of course, we want to talk semantics so dimensions ≠ universes (even though the semantics of the word multiverse to refer to multiple universes already makes no sense). BW already gave firm evidence that versions are their own separate universes and actually had a person ask for a Pokemon that knew Charge from the other version's universe. Gen VI suggested another divide--Mega Evolution. Gen VII builds on this further by confirming a character from that universe. There is absolutely no point in saying Anabel is from another world and reference that she "guards a tower" when we never played a game in the Mega!Universe that had a Battle Tower. Like they literally said another world yet certain users want to debate semantics?

I think the Pokemon Universes can be seen as similar to the multiple universes in Dragon Ball Z. Each universe had the world of the living, the world of the kai's, etc. So each Pokemon universe has their own world, the distortion world (and Arceus, Dialga, and Palkia's other dimensions) and likely each version is just a separate timeline within each universe (similar to how DBZ's main universe, Universe 7 has the main timeline and Future Trunks timeline).

The Ultra Beasts either come from their own universe, or lives in the space between universes. I haven't really read the text files enough to know, but it would make sense if it was the latter. Perhaps whatever Hoopa was doing in ORAS made the boundaries weaker, allowing people to pass through worlds even without its rings. Perhaps Hoopa's rings protect whoever passes through them from the energy of the Ultra wormhole...
 
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Your theory doesn't explain the Audionite. He couldn't have found it in DS Unova, after all.
No no, that's not what I was getting at. I should have worded it more clearly, but I meant, if it *is* just a rock that was energized upon entering the Megaverse, then it makes sense that it's a rock he picked up from Unova, because it corresponds to a Unova Pokémon.

And you're forgetting the origins of Mr. Bonding. There is no doubt that ORAS precede XY in the timeline.
That's what I am saying, though. I think there could be a bit of overlap, like with HGSS and Platinum, but I still put ORAS mostly before XY, just as most of the Johto half of HGSS precedes Platinum. I'm saying that ORAS can be shifted so that the main story precedes XY, and things start to overlap around the time of the Delta Episode.

...which means Mega!Looker knows that the other Looker is a faller but obviously doesn't want to reveal himself. It makes for a pretty good cover as a secret agent if someone who looks exactly like you is in a high profile position acts as an alibi.
Do you think it's possible that Faller Looker could be what first alerted the International Police to the Fallers? If ORAS really is set over ten years before SM, then Faller Looker predates Anabel by a bit. Maybe Interpol found Faller Looker, saw that he looked exactly like one of their agents, and started keeping an eye on this.

The meteorite turned into a "mega stone" over time even before being exposed to the energy from the Cave of Origin. A lot of Mega Stones just started to randomly appear with no clear timeline after the Cave of Origin event so I don't really see why this is being held against the Looker theory especially since Looker having it seems like a pun based on Audino's (I don't know) name
Maybe so. But then doesn't this completely disrupt the chain of events in the non-Mega timeline? If ORAS are 10+ years before SM, then that could mean that Looker fell through a wormhole long before the events of Platinum and BW. There's the possibility that the wormholes can transcend time, but I don't think anything in the dialogue actually suggests that, and Anabel's displacement lines up very nicely in a 1:1 way with the Emerald timeframe.

Alternate theory on why Wally looks the same: He's like that GoT actor Thomas Brodie-Sangster who literally looks like he stopped aging in his early-teens.
Well that's impressive at any rate.

To raise a counterpoint to myself, it seems as though Wally and Cynthia are the only Battle Tree opponents who never appear outside of the Battle Tree. That could be significant as to why they don't look different.

Either way there's really so many other parsimonious explanations to Wally's age than moving the timeline of all events to be in line with XY. Obviously Mega Evolutions still existed in Hoenn even before Sycamore made his statement (Steven has a Mega Stone, the Eon dragons had a Mega Evolution despite being Hoenn natives even before the Primal event, and you got your starter mega stones before that event as well). So yeah...moving the timeline doesn't make Sycamore any more correct about anything he stated.
Now, you've got me on the Eon dragons. I forgot they had a little myth attached to them about Mega Evolution. But as to the other points, Steven is said by the Fossil Maniac to have visited Kalos before the events of ORAS. So that explains where he gets his Mega Stone, and the Starter Stone that he gives you. And as to everybody else that uses Mega Evolution - Lisia not only travels the world already (so she could have visited Kalos at some point), but she is also related to someone from the Draconids' sister tribe (Wallace, a Sootopolitan). So she has some connections to that knowledge. Archie and Maxie were fed information by Zinnia (a Draconid who knows all about Mega Evolution), so she could have given them the tools to use Mega Evolution. And Wally only gets his after the Primal crisis.

As for the Stones that are scattered around Hoenn, obviously they came from the ancient meteor shower, but I don't think there's any way for Sycamore to directly confirm that, or to tell them apart from Stones that people might have brought from Kalos and then lost. Mega Evolution has, to Sycamore's knowledge, been around for at least a century, and there's no way that people haven't picked up Mega Stones and left Kalos with them in that time.

So it's not exactly that Sycamore thinks Mega Evolution has only ever happened in Kalos and that Mega Stones only exist there. It's just that the only historical examples he can find trace back to Kalos, and he can't confirm that the Stones in other regions have a different origin until he receives the data from Cozmo. And I'm saying that his "Why are there examples of Mega Evolution only in Kalos?" line is said before he receives Cozmo's message.

But actually, never mind all that, since I just remembered the "You are not the one" girl as well. In addition to the de-aged XY characters and the Royal Unova model, that does feel like an intentional "yeah this is set a few years earlier."

You know, contrary to what it may seem, I actually have no real issue with ORAS taking place in its original position. I'm just open-minded about the possibility of moving it, and wonder how Faller Looker is supposed to be from the non-Mega timeline if it hasn't moved (I can overlook the Mega Stone if I have to, but they don't seem to imply that these wormholes transcend time as well as space).
 
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Multiverse has been confirmed by Zinnia in OR/AS. It is not a reference, it is a fact.
No it is not. Zinnia had no proof and was almost responsible for ending the world. Who would believe that theory from someone like her. Multiverse is a theory and that is a fact. There is no evidence/proof in the games.
 
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No it is not. Zinnia had no proof and was almost responsible for ending the world. Who would believe that theory from someone like her. Multiverse is a theory and that is a fact. There is no evidence/proof in the games.
Why do people keep saying that it was just a theory? Zinnia clearly says that the Draconids have observed the other universe for generations, through the distortions created by Mega Evolution. It wasn't just a guess on her part. There is no ambiguity in her statement:

> "My people know it. From generation to generation, we pass along the lore about the distortions in the world borne by the Mega Evolution mechanism. And about the existence of another world, which we have long observed to be just like this one and yet not the same..."
 
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Why do people keep saying that it was just a theory? Zinnia clearly says that the Draconids have observed the other universe for generations, through the distortions created by Mega Evolution. It wasn't just a guess on her part.
Zinnia is obviously lying. All we have is her word on it and that is not good enough in my opinion.
 
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@Esserise We don't really know the rules of interdimensional travel. Time didn't flow properly in the distortion world either so perhaps B2W2 Looker also went back in time.

I think it's also obvious that the International Police know about Faller Looker. Anabel certainly wouldn't know that she was from another dimension given her amnesia, so they'd have to piece it together. Her description is enough (strong trainer, protector of a tower, Hoenn) to basically narrow down who she would in their dimension if Anabel was also a Frontier Brain...and since that Anabel would still exist, they'd realize she might be from another dimension.

Why do people keep saying that it was just a theory? Zinnia clearly says that the Draconids have observed the other universe for generations, through the distortions created by Mega Evolution. It wasn't just a guess on her part. There is no ambiguity in her statement:

> "My people know it. From generation to generation, we pass along the lore about the distortions in the world borne by the Mega Evolution mechanism. And about the existence of another world, which we have long observed to be just like this one and yet not the same..."
We should stop generalizing the ranting of one person who refused to entertain the idea that legendaries may evolve because they never have before despite all the contrary evidence of everything legendaries have done despite not having done it before.

It's literally just that one user, and we shouldn't act like one loud voice has consensus.
 
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We don't really know the rules of interdimensional travel. Time didn't flow properly in the distortion world either so perhaps B2W2 Looker also went back in time.
Well, maybe. So, to summarize, Non-Mega Looker fell through the wormhole with a stone in his pocket, and got flung back through time to Hoenn, and the rock got supercharged by the new natural energy that Hoenn was soaked in by the Cave of Origin?

I think it's also obvious that the International Police know about Faller Looker. Anabel certainly wouldn't know that she was from another dimension given her amnesia, so they'd have to piece it together. Her description is enough (strong trainer, protector of a tower, Hoenn) to basically narrow down who she would in their dimension if Anabel was also a Frontier Brain...and since that Anabel would still exist, they'd realize she might be from another dimension.
Well the reason I asked was because they did already know of at least one Faller by the time they found Anabel. They don't ever actually say that Anabel herself is from another world, although that's clearly implied. When they mention a girl from another world, they're talking about Looker and Nanu's former teammate who died when they were hunting a UB ten years ago. It was after that mission that Looker and Nanu found Anabel.

So they did have some awareness that Fallers were a thing. I'm just kicking around the idea that Looker's duplicate may have been the first.

We should stop generalizing the ranting of one person who refused to entertain the idea that legendaries may evolve because they never have before despite all the contrary evidence of everything legendaries have done despite not having done it before.

It's literally just that one user, and we shouldn't act like one loud voice has consensus.
It's not just Arceus; I see it all over on some other sites. A lot of people seem to think that Zinnia was just theorizing.
 
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We should stop generalizing the ranting of one person who refused to entertain the idea that legendaries may evolve because they never have before despite all the contrary evidence of everything legendaries have done despite not having done it before.

It's literally just that one user, and we shouldn't act like one loud voice has consensus.
I am not the only one who thought legendaries don't evolve. Don't target me like that. I am not ranting. Granted, Solgaleo/Lunala's pre evolution was a surprise but at least we still can only get one per game file which is keeps legendaries special. However multiverse is another matter as it is not proven and only one person in the game talks about it. The dimensions in SM are not universes. Dimensions and universes are completely different.
 
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Wormholes are a shortcut between two points in spacetime. It is not a stretch to assume that passing through one could change your position in time rather than just space.
 
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Well, maybe. So, to summarize, Non-Mega Looker fell through the wormhole with a stone in his pocket, and got flung back through time to Hoenn, and the rock got supercharged by the new natural energy that Hoenn was soaked in by the Cave of Origin?
Probably. Sycamore theorized that Mega Stones used to be evolution stones so he could have had that.
Well the reason I asked was because they did already know of at least one Faller by the time they found Anabel. They don't ever actually say that Anabel herself is from another world, although that's clearly implied. When they mention a girl from another world, they're talking about Looker and Nanu's former teammate who died when they were hunting a UB ten years ago. It was after that mission that Looker and Nanu found Anabel.
In a cruel twist of fate, Zinnia manages to go to the non-Mega Universe and not find Aster...because Aster was the Faller.
 
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