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[SPOILERS] The story of Sun&Moon

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Well, if that is their plan for the future, I appreciate the hint.
It is a bit of a plot vs content matter, for me.

In ORAS I think that, for the actual plot, it is better for Zinnia to leave, as it adds a sense of mistery to her character. But from a gameplay perspectve, I would´ve much preferred for Zinnia to stay at Meteor Falls in the postgame, available for daily battles like Wally, for example.

Same with Lillie. It is good for the plot that she leaves, as it makes sense. It´s just I tend to care for the gameplay and content over the plot (even though I appreciate a good plot as well)
 
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It is a bit of a plot vs content matter, for me.

In ORAS I think that, for the actual plot, it is better for Zinnia to leave, as it adds a sense of mistery to her character. But from a gameplay perspectve, I would´ve much preferred for Zinnia to stay at Meteor Falls in the postgame, available for daily battles like Wally, for example.

Same with Lillie. It is good for the plot that she leaves, as it makes sense. It´s just I tend to care for the gameplay and content over the plot (even though I appreciate a good plot as well)
They could honestly do both in this scenario. There's no reason Lillie needs to be gone the rest of the game--perhaps after defending your Champion title 10 times, Lillie comes back. They didn't make Wally appear at the Battle Maison until you beat a Chatelaine so I don't really see the reason not to do this. They also had the Shadow Triad and N come back periodically in B2W2. And in Gen IV, DP and HgSs managed to have Jasmine's story told throughout both games whilst appearing in both and not disappearing abruptly.
 
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Why would she come back so soon? She's on a journey in Kanto. It would be pretty lame if she just returned with a strong team all of a sudden.

Lillie's character development isn't over yet.
 
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There's really no reason for her to stay for a long time as far as I understand it. And the time she's gone and returns is an indeterminate amount of time, but obviously the games need a counter so use the number of times you defend the Champion title.
 
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There's really no reason for her to stay for a long time as far as I understand it.
She wants to become a strong trainer in Kanto. She actually says that's the main reason for her decision to leave.

Nothing says that it's going to be easy for Lusamine to recover, either.
 
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They could honestly do both in this scenario. There's no reason Lillie needs to be gone the rest of the game--perhaps after defending your Champion title 10 times, Lillie comes back. They didn't make Wally appear at the Battle Maison until you beat a Chatelaine so I don't really see the reason not to do this. They also had the Shadow Triad and N come back periodically in B2W2. And in Gen IV, DP and HgSs managed to have Jasmine's story told throughout both games whilst appearing in both and not disappearing abruptly.
This could work. I like this idea.

However, it does seem like she is going on a Jorney in Kanto to become a great Pokemon Trainer, kinda mirroring the PC: the PC moves from Kanto to Alola, and becomes a great trainer in Alola. She is doing the opposite route. So it might take longer...
 
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The story seems decent although I always consider the story of both BW and B2W2 superior in my opinion.
 
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Okay, couple questions.
-Under what grounds are people assuming that Looker who washed up the shore in ORAS is a Fallen? It hasn't been confirmed straightout, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I understand that ORAS Looker's state of being was almost identical to the confirmed one of Fallen Anabel (otherwise grounds for unsaid confirmation) but if claims of contradiction are solely based on this, then idk if we can really state this theory as a fact.
-So in what part does the PC travel to the "alternate universe" (Sun version character traveling to the Moon version universe and vice-versa, right?)? And does Cosmog legitimately evolve into the version mascot? Is it not a change of form?
-Did Sycamore say that Mega Evolution is solely a Kalos thing? (I don't quite remember his dialogue exactly.) Because if he said something among the lines of Mega Evolution being known in Kalos more so than in other regions, then I feel like it doesn't contradict what happens in ORAS. From my viewpoint, Mega Evolution seemed to be more widely used in Kalos than in Hoenn. Although ME was still saved for experienced trainers in Kalos, it seemed like everyone knew of it and the extent to which it was saved for top trainers was much less than in Hoenn, where most of the trainers who use (or even know about) ME are those affiliated with either Steven (which is expected since he studies stones and was said to visit Kalos from time to time) or the Draconians (who have a history of ME in ancient times so that's expected. The only exceptions that come to mind are Maxie and Archie. Even Gym Leaders in Hoenn don't seem knowledgeable about ME, barring Wallace. Even the Elite Four were only able to utilize ME when given the stones by Steven (and from Sidney's dialogue, it didn't seem like they knew anything about ME that didn't extend to their own Pokemon's enhanced abilities).

Also, some clarifications I can provide with my own knowledge to some info that I see as incorrect here (and please correct me if I'm wrong on my end):
-ORAS is not contemporary with XY. Hard evidence includes Mr. Bonding becoming Mr. Bonding in ORAS, mention of the Royal Unova being in construction in ORAS which had to be finished by the time of XY, etc. ORAS takes place before XY as much as RSE/FRLG takes place before B2W2
-I don't think Wally's lack of visible physical aging should be considered grounds for a lack of time having passed. The Battle Maison girls look the same age between ORAS and XY. I know that anti-examples exist (like Caitlin and potentially Red & Blue). But Game Freak was never known to heavily emphasize characters aging. Plus, with Wally in particular (due to his smaller stature), I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't hit puberty by age 20. Remember his unconfirmed disease(s).

Well, despite my earlier claim, I would like to think that ORAS Looker was a Fallen from the non-mega universe. And I don't see why Ultra wormholes cannot transport people across time as well as space (the real-life theories of wormholes involve time travel, fyi). Doesn't seem a stretch at all that non-mega Looker, after arresting the sages in BW, was transported before B2W2 happened to the mega universe, few years back as well, to be placed in the ORAS timeline. As for the Audinonite, although it may just possibly be a plothole resulting from just simply a mistake on GF's part, it could potentially be explained via Looker being transported straight from non-mega Unova? And maybe something from the Ultra wormhole (if not just being in the presence of the energy engulfing the mega universe that is absent in the non-mega universe, a remnant of the Ultimate Weapon..?) caused whatever the Audinonite was in its original universe (an evolution stone if being consistent with the original story) to change into a mega stone?

So here is my theory. Looker was transported to the ORAS Battle Resort sometime between post-BW and B2W2. But his Croagunk was left behind (we know that he "lost" his Pokemon, which we can assume to be Croagunk). He was transported to the mega universe while also backtracking a couple years and eventually washed up the shore. Reason why he was not present in B2W2 (he probably should have been otherwise since he already had experience with the sages). He was eventually taken to the International Police, his remaining memories of what happened prior to his amnesia being his membership with the International Police and a partner Pokemon that is no longer with him (whether there is a mega universe Looker counterpart is something that I would rather not theorize). Then there is Anabel. Extensive research and investigation revealed the reality of the Ultra wormholes and the "Fallen".

Thus, Looker lives the next decade or so with no knowledge about his past life aside from his only remaining memories. Whether he lives to serve his role in the mega universe's versions of Sinnoh and Unova would have to wait until potential remakes come out. I believe that Looker in XY is the Fallen counterpart since he mentions his lost partner. The Looker in SM doesn't seem to be a Fallen (so it's plausible that this Looker is originally from the mega universe) but if there are two Lookers running around in the same universe, then why isn't Fallen Looker potential bait for the UB? I don't think it's much of a stretch that either SM Looker didn't make the connection that he is a Fallen and thus could be the bait himself or that he did know but preferred to utilize the other options to keep himself safe (both of which have been characteristics shown previously: slight incompetence and sending others to do his work).

I actually really like the idea of a game set in Kanto, with Lillie and Lusamine being in Kanto to find Bill and so on, but I would rather have that information saved for said Kanto game, and having Lillie stay in Alola during my game.
Fyi this idea will have to be kept separate from a mega Kanto remake since the timeline of Red's Kanto quest would have to be way before Lillie's quest. Not saying a Kanto remake in the megaverse has to be the same plot as RBY/FRLG, but just to keep in mind
 
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Okay, couple questions.
-Under what grounds are people assuming that Looker who washed up the shore in ORAS is a Fallen? It hasn't been confirmed straightout, right? (Correct me if I'm wrong.) I understand that ORAS Looker's state of being was almost identical to the confirmed one of Fallen Anabel (otherwise grounds for unsaid confirmation) but if claims of contradiction are solely based on this, then idk if we can really state this theory as a fact.
Well naturally it isn't "confirmed straightout"; they games haven't even been officially released yet.

We assume he's a Faller because he has amnesia like Anabel was said to have had, and a nearby NPC said that they heard a nearby splash but didn't see where it could have come from. So the likelihood is that Looker fell out of a wormhole in the sky.

And there's really no reason for any other explanation. We know that the Fallers come from "other worlds" (implied to mean other universes), and we know that the Looker we see in XY and SM isn't a Faller. Meanwhile, we have an appearance from Looker in ORAS, except he has amnesia (one of the few characteristic traits of Fallers that we know of), which doesn't contribute anything meaningful to the character of Looker in XY and SM, and there's a nearby NPC recounting details that make sense if we infer that Looker fell from a wormhole.

There's theorizing, and then there's putting two and two together from the clues given.

And does Cosmog legitimately evolve into the version mascot? Is it not a change of form?
It is an evolution. You even receive a second Cosmog in the post-game, which you can evolve by leveling it up.

-Did Sycamore say that Mega Evolution is solely a Kalos thing? (I don't quite remember his dialogue exactly.) Because if he said something among the lines of Mega Evolution being known in Kalos more so than in other regions, then I feel like it doesn't contradict what happens in ORAS.
His exact line is, "It's only a hypothesis, but I think the bond between Pokémon and Trainer is the key to this new Evolution. But what is this bond, exactly? And why are there examples of Mega Evolution only in the Kalos region?"

Diantha then says, "Does this make you think of something like Kalos's Legendary Pokémon? Found only here in the Kalos region, right? Nowhere else? Maybe that's not a coincidence."

Additionally, the official XY site referred to it as "a transformation found only in the Kalos region."

Does this make you think of something like Kalos's Legendary Pokémon? Found only here in the Kalos region, right? Nowhere else? Maybe that's not a coincidence."

-ORAS is not contemporary with XY. Hard evidence includes Mr. Bonding becoming Mr. Bonding in ORAS, mention of the Royal Unova being in construction in ORAS which had to be finished by the time of XY, etc. ORAS takes place before XY as much as RSE/FRLG takes place before B2W2
Obviously ORAS precede XY, but my theory was that instead of being years before, ORAS could be set only a month or so before. The Royal Unova reference would then be negligible seeing as moving ORAS means moving the Battle Frontier's construction date well past what it is in the Non-Mega timeline as well, but this is all a moot point because I said I was dropping that theory.

-I don't think Wally's lack of visible physical aging should be considered grounds for a lack of time having passed. The Battle Maison girls look the same age between ORAS and XY. I know that anti-examples exist (like Caitlin and potentially Red & Blue). But Game Freak was never known to heavily emphasize characters aging. Plus, with Wally in particular (due to his smaller stature), I wouldn't be surprised if he hasn't hit puberty by age 20. Remember his unconfirmed disease(s).
The Chatelaines are more easily disregarded since they are adults, whose aging is more gradual. Wally is only 10 in ORAS. But it doesn't matter, because the real answer is that GF were lazy with Wally, and his appearance could be considered non-canonical fanservice.

And maybe something from the Ultra wormhole (if not just being in the presence of the energy engulfing the mega universe that is absent in the non-mega universe, a remnant of the Ultimate Weapon..?) caused whatever the Audinonite was in its original universe (an evolution stone if being consistent with the original story) to change into a mega stone?
There's no need to mention the ultimate weapon; Mega Stones were created all over Hoenn by the energy wave from the Cave of Origin. This enriched the region with energy, and Looker's stone probably just absorbed some of it.

So here is my theory. Looker was transported to the ORAS Battle Resort sometime between post-BW and B2W2. But his Croagunk was left behind (we know that he "lost" his Pokemon, which we can assume to be Croagunk). He was transported to the mega universe while also backtracking a couple years and eventually washed up the shore. Reason why he was not present in B2W2 (he probably should have been otherwise since he already had experience with the sages). He was eventually taken to the International Police, his remaining memories of what happened prior to his amnesia being his membership with the International Police and a partner Pokemon that is no longer with him (whether there is a mega universe Looker counterpart is something that I would rather not theorize). Then there is Anabel. Extensive research and investigation revealed the reality of the Ultra wormholes and the "Fallen".
There's little reason to think that XY Looker is the Faller. Fallers don't seem to regain their memories. XY Looker is perfectly lucid and acts just like his old self, and SM Looker is much the same way.
 
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@Esserise not all the Chatelaines are visibly adults.

Also:
Can we talk about how Game Freak literally heard all the fans make fun of their Pokedex entry, and now found an easy way out by making it look like Rotom's just full of trubbish?

Also the fact that Mega Evolutions are supposed to be due to the bonds between trainers and Pokemon, but nearly every ME-entry involves Rotom calling the Pokemon ruthless monsters

Fyi this idea will have to be kept separate from a mega Kanto remake since the timeline of Red's Kanto quest would have to be way before Lillie's quest. Not saying a Kanto remake in the megaverse has to be the same plot as RBY/FRLG, but just to keep in mind
We already saw Red in the present day, and we know from ORAS that the broad events more or less stay the same so what can be proposed is a Kanto sequel, where people reference the events of RBY but also have Mega Evolutions.

I don't even think Red is capable of Mega Evolution in Sun and Moon, but it would be interesting if we battle him and he uses both Z-moves and a Mega Evolution (but it wouldn't be clear who mega evolves in his team...but maybe any one of the Kanto starters chosen at random)
 
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I don't even think Red is capable of Mega Evolution in Sun and Moon, but it would be interesting if we battle him and he uses both Z-moves and a Mega Evolution (but it wouldn't be clear who mega evolves in his team...but maybe any one of the Kanto starters chosen at random)
He doesn't use Mega Evolution in the 6vs6 battle, but he does in the Battle Tree. I assume that he can Mega Evolve any one of his starters and that it is randomly determined (much like his 3 Pokemon aren't set).

I am not sure about Z-moves.

DaPandaBear said:
I believe that Looker in XY is the Fallen counterpart since he mentions his lost partner
That partner was said to have been killed during a past investigation; you're assuming that it was left behind in another universe.
 
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Can I just say that all of this Faller nonsense is hurting my head?

I hate ambiguity in my stories. Am I wrong for feeling that?
 
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I hate ambiguity in my stories. Am I wrong for feeling that?
No. It's a matter of opinion and plenty of people share your sentiments.

I do get the feeling that Game Freak haven't even thought about some of the things fans have discussed regarding the multiverse implications.
 
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That partner was said to have been killed during a past investigation; you're assuming that it was left behind in another universe.
More evidence that XY Looker and SM Looker are the same guy: Remember when we all thought Croagunk died because Looker mentions losing a partner in XY? Now we know he wasn't referring to Croagunk. No evidence to link ORAS Looker to XY-SM Looker since that event hasn't been referenced, and XY-SM Looker is clearly not a faller.
 
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More evidence that XY Looker and SM Looker are the same guy: Remember when we all thought Croagunk died because Looker mentions losing a partner in XY?
I don't recall the specifics, but according to Bulbapedia the partner was a Pokemon: "In Pokémon X and Y, it is said that his Pokémon was killed, but it is not specified whether the Pokémon in question is Croagunk or a different one. In the picture on his table, it says that Looker is in the picture with a bluish and purplish color, which may be referring to a Croagunk."
 
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The exact line from Emma is, "<Player>, help Mr. Looker! Please! He doesn't even have a Pokémon! H-he once said something... A long time ago, he had a Pokémon. A partner that was always with him... But... They were on a case...and...and...I don't know what happened, but...his partner didn't make it... If he tries to stand up to the Lumiose Gang without a single Pokémon on his side, he doesn't have a chance!"

Re: "confusing" multiverse stuff -

It sounds more confusing than it actually is.

Basically, there are two universes. In one universe, AZ never built the ultimate weapon and Mega Evolution was never discovered. This is the world of FRLG, Emerald, HGSS, Platinum, BW, and B2W2.

In the other universe, obviously AZ did build the weapon, and Mega Evoluiton was discovered. This is the world of XY, ORAS, and SM.

Sometimes, the wormholes that are opened by Ultra Beasts cause people from one universe to fall into the other. This leaves them with amnesia, and it seems that they are usually taken in by the International Police for observation.
 
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Personally I think ORAS Looker is the same as XY/SM Looker, I love getting back into these timeline/multiverse discussions lol

It goes like this: ORAS -> XY -> SM

Looker can easily have amnesia in ORAS but then be trained into the international police over the course of the five years or so between ORAS and XY.

Also I don't think Looker is a faller, personally, but he could be. In every variation of the Kanto games, there's a guy in the S.S. Anne who says something along the lines of "Shhh... I'm a member of the secret police" or something to that effect. Since Kanto happens at the same time or shortly before Hoenn (I'm assuming this holds true in both universes), many theorized he just fell off the boat when it was near Hoenn then washed up, but this doesn't explain the amnesia. Maybe he did fall off the boat, but then fell through one of those wormholes, so the theory people made up a couple years back with ORAS could be true, this just adds a new twist to it.
 
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Personally I think ORAS Looker is the same as XY/SM Looker, I love getting back into these timeline/multiverse discussions lol

It goes like this: ORAS -> XY -> SM

Looker can easily have amnesia in ORAS but then be trained into the international police over the course of the five years or so between ORAS and XY.

Also I don't think Looker is a faller, personally, but he could be. In every variation of the Kanto games, there's a guy in the S.S. Anne who says something along the lines of "Shhh... I'm a member of the secret police" or something to that effect. Since Kanto happens at the same time or shortly before Hoenn (I'm assuming this holds true in both universes), many theorized he just fell off the boat when it was near Hoenn then washed up, but this doesn't explain the amnesia. Maybe he did fall off the boat, but then fell through one of those wormholes, so the theory people made up a couple years back with ORAS could be true, this just adds a new twist to it.
Problems with this:

The Looker in ORAS is clearly meant to be a Faller given the amnesia and the NPC's comments about a nearby splashing sound that came from nowhere (easily explained by being a wormhole in the sky, whereas the S.S. Anne would have been clearly visible).

This Looker cannot be XY/SM Looker because

- Fallers don't seem to recover their memories
- Fallers are drenched in energy which attracts the UBs. Looker in SM says that this is true of Anabel, and of his deceased fellow officer, but never says that it is true of himself despite having now been on two missions where Fallers were used as bait for UBs
- Looker in SM also never makes any mention of having had amnesia himself, which you'd think he would comment on, since he is at one point sitting there explaining to you that Fallers have amnesia and are kept track of by the International Police... if he'd joined the IP in exactly the same way as Anabel (a Faller who later got involved in their UB division), don't you'd think he'd, you know... say, "We know of three Fallers - you, Anabel, and myself" as opposed to just citing you and Anabel? And when explaining Anabel's history, wouldn't he say something like, "I joined the International Police in much the same way"?
 
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Problems with this:

The Looker in ORAS is clearly meant to be a Faller given the amnesia and the NPC's comments about a nearby splashing sound that came from nowhere (easily explained by being a wormhole in the sky, whereas the S.S. Anne would have been clearly visible).

This Looker cannot be XY/SM Looker because

- Fallers don't seem to recover their memories
- Fallers are drenched in energy which attracts the UBs. Looker in SM says that this is true of Anabel, and of his deceased fellow officer, but never says that it is true of himself
- Looker in SM also never makes any mention of having had amnesia himself, which you'd think he would comment on, since he is at one point sitting there explaining to you that Fallers have amnesia and are kept track of by the International Police... if he'd joined the IP in exactly the same way as Anabel (a Faller who later got involved in their UB division), don't you'd think he'd, you know... say, "We know of three Fallers - you, Anabel, and myself" as opposed to just citing you and Anabel?
I mean, I guess. I just find it odd that there HAS to be two Lookers in the same universe at once. Like, don't you think SM-Looker would've caught wind of and heard of ORAS-Looker by now? Isn't there like, an identity issue going on here? Maybe I'm thinking about this too realistically but if a second one of me popped into our real world that would probably raise a lot of flags by the government or something like that. Plus I'm not a member of the international police so you'd think that would be even more disturbing, then again, the Pokemon world doesn't work quite like our's, I still feel like, if they're NOT the same Looker, they've got to find out about each other sooner or later, especially since SM-Looker has an interest in Fallers, you'd think an alternate universe version of himself would interest him even more.

Also, how do you explain that he gives the player an Audinite? If he is DPPl/BW's Looker, he wouldn't have a Mega Stone as they didn't exist.
 
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