Preview JN012: Daimax Battle! Dande, The Greatest of Them All!!

[game3524]

I did. She doesn’t develop at all because she played a mentor figure role at best. That still doesn’t change the fact she was a snooze and only appeared to say the usual generic lore about strength and Pokémon in all her appearances. Adeku was playful and soulful, Mikuri had his androgynous charisma and idol persona, even Wataru had his G-Men stuff and intervention with appearing to help save Pikachu and Satoshi in Hoenn (acting as more of a hero), Shirona/Carne were both just bland though.

Yeah, the only interesting thing about Cynthia IMO was she was indecisive when it came to picking Ice cream.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Could you explain what you mean by Leon having a Gigantamaxed Pokémon for free?

Sure! I admit "for free" wasn't the best word for that. Is it more understandable if I say he's trainer of a Gigantamaxed Pokemon by the writers' grace ? Again, they need somebody to promote the latest Gigantamax feature and now half of the fandom seems to be in awe of him because Gigantamax is the latest, super hottest shit which automatically makes him undefeatable... It's as if the writers said: "Oh Leon, here you can have that Gigantamaxed Charizard and it'll only take you one episode and everybody will consider you the greatest..." It's as if everything Cynthia has done and and achieved so far suddenly doesn't count or isn't interesting anymore.... just because of that damn Gigantamax thingy...

When Cynthia was introduced, there wasn't any Mega-Evolution, Z-moves or Gigantamax and I'm convinced she wouldn't even need to rely on all those power boosts to still be the best.
But if they really want to compare the champions, then for God's sake, do it on an equal basis and don't just throw a Gigantamaxed Pokemon on a so-called champion and expect the audience to hype him...

I did. She doesn’t develop at all because she played a mentor figure role at best. That still doesn’t change the fact she was a snooze and only appeared to say the usual generic lore about strength and Pokémon in all her appearances. Adeku was playful and soulful, Mikuri had his androgynous charisma and idol persona, even Wataru had his G-Men stuff and intervention with appearing to help save Pikachu and Satoshi in Hoenn (acting as more of a hero), Shirona/Carne were both just bland though.

If things like "playful" or "androgynous charisma" or "G-men stuff" already count as great achievements to you, I could give you a whole list of reasons that make Cynthia even greater. Rewatch the Sinnoh and Unova episodes and you'll see what I mean. A champion is not supposed to be a playful fool who falls asleep right in the middle of a battle (Alder) or a self-regarding snob like Walace, but a heroic person who mentors others, who you can look up to, who shares his/her wisdom and who saves the world if necessary. Yes, Lance has many of those traits and let me point out he's my second most-favorite champion! All I want so desperately is Cynthia to be in that match, preferably against Lance, and then show her glory! (And no, as opposed to the writers I don't care about any games promotion This is the anime that we, the audience, love )

 

[Greninjaman]

Sure! I admit "for free" wasn't the best word for that. Is it more understandable if I say he's trainer of a Gigantamaxed Pokemon by the writers' grace ? Again, they need somebody to promote the latest Gigantamax feature and now half of the fandom seems to be in awe of him because Gigantamax is the latest, super hottest shit which automatically makes him undefeatable... It's as if the writers said: "Oh Leon, here you can have that Gigantamaxed Charizard and it'll only take you one episode and everybody will consider you the greatest..." It's as if everything Cynthia has done and and achieved so far suddenly doesn't count or isn't interesting anymore.... just because of that damn Gigantamax thingy...

When Cynthia was introduced, there wasn't any Mega-Evolution, Z-moves or Gigantamax and I'm convinced she wouldn't even need to rely on all those power boosts to still be the best.
But if they really want to compare the champions, then for God's sake, do it on an equal basis and don't just throw a Gigantamaxed Pokemon on a so-called champion and expect the audience to hype him...

Of course Leon is going to have a Gigantamax Charizard. He has one in the games.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

And I personally consider myself the world's greatest Cynthia fan!
I don't know if I can count you in , but I'm absolutely sure most Cynthia fans will agree with me.

You still do not speak for all of us, Cynthia fans. Does that make you happy?

And even if he does, it's not a legit victory.

This is called moving the goalpost fallacy. You are not the broker of a legitimate win or not. The broker is either the ref or the narrative, not that their roles don't overlap. Love or hate what you want, but actively debating the truth is beyond futile.

Then you probably missed the whole Sinnoh arc She had more appearances and character development than any other so-called champion before and after her

She didn't have a character arc in Sinnoh. She played mentor.

Sure! I admit "for free" wasn't the best word for that. Is it more understandable if I say he's trainer of a Gigantamaxed Pokemon by the writers' grace ? Again, they need somebody to promote the latest Gigantamax feature and now half of the fandom seems to be in awe of him because Gigantamax is the latest, super hottest shit which automatically makes him undefeatable... It's as if the writers said: "Oh Leon, here you can have that Gigantamaxed Charizard and it'll only take you one episode and everybody will consider you the greatest..." It's as if everything Cynthia has done and and achieved so far suddenly doesn't count or isn't interesting anymore.... just because of that damn Gigantamax thingy...

I didn't realize that adapting his unbroken winning streak from the games was a handout. If that's the case, then all champions didn't earn their positions. They were handouts. Therefore, Cynthia's accomplishments are null and void because those were handouts.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Cynthia's one of my favourite Champions but I absolutely do not stand by someone calling a non-white Champion a "ghetto kid" just because they hate him.

Leon and Hop have been given a distinctively Indian skin tone (or somewhere around those regions), and seeing the amount of Indian references in Galar (and Copperajah possibly being from the Indian-equivalent region) made me happy since I’m from the region and happen to have the exact skin tone, but this just because you don’t like the character is sickening.

And if Leon's Gigantamax Charizard and winning streak are a handout, Cynthia's entire team is a handout, Lance's Gyarados is a handout, Diantha's Gardevoir is a handout, all the Champions having the champion status is a handout unless they earned it on screen.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Come on guys, don't get so unnecessarily agitated just because I said Leon reminded me of a ghetto kid. I didn't mean to insult any minority whatsoever and I didn't even allude to his skin color which I couldn't care less about (Did you really, I mean really think I'm that stupid? Next time I don't like somebody who's wearing a read shirt, somebody will accuse me of "discriminating" people with read shirts or what?)
But just look at him: That baseball cap that makes him look like a gangsta rapper (You prefer that term? Fine I'll use that from now on), combined with that inelegant cape? Come on boy, show some class when you dress, especially when you claim to be a (worthy) champion! That's all I wanted to say.

This is called moving the goalpost fallacy. You are not the broker of a legitimate win or not. The broker is either the ref or the narrative, not that their roles don't overlap.

According to Wikipedia moving the goalpost means "to change the criterion (goal) of a process or competition while it is still in progress, in such a way that the new goal offers one side an intentional advantage or disadvantage."
That's exactly what I've always wanted to make clear in the first place. If the plot, the writers or whoever really wanted a World Championship where mainly the champions compete and compare their strengths with each other, then it's only fair and square that every competitor has the same chances on the same basis.
In that case you would expect all competitors to have access to Mega Evolution, Z-moves or Gigantamaxed Pokemon. As simple as that! Just because those power boosts hadn't been introduced yet when Lance and Cynthia first appeared, doesn't make Leon superior and by no means "the greatest". That's what I call a huge and unfair disadvantage and that has always been my sole reason for being so angry about that episode. (I wonder how often I'll have to repeat that)

Love or hate what you want, but actively debating the truth is beyond futile.

There is no truth in the Anime. The only "truth" is the writers' subjective opinion. And if you call my posts futile, then everything we do here and on other forums is just as futile.
Debating episodes we can't change anyways, filling whole threads with personal speculations, most of which will never come true anyways, or even making up fanfics must then be considered futile too according to your definition, because they're all reflections of personal opinions that don't matter in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what I just said (otherwise I wouldn't be here), but if you insist on calling my opinion and my fight for Cynthia's honor futile, then let me ask you what makes my opinion worse or less legit than any other debate or futile headcanon here?

She didn't have a character arc in Sinnoh. She played mentor.

Then I suppose no champion ever had any arc in the show. And by the way, is mentoring others and saving the world really such a bad and boring achievement that you seem to willingly ignore everything Cynthia did in the Anime? Especially when compared to other champions that I hardly remember why they were there in the first place?

I didn't realize that adapting his unbroken winning streak from the games was a handout. If that's the case, then all champions didn't earn their positions. They were handouts. Therefore, Cynthia's accomplishments are null and void because those were handouts.

His "winning streak" would break the moment Cynthia was allowed to enter with a Dyna-/Gigantamaxed or a Mega-evolved Garchomp. I'm sure of it. But the writers seem to have cheated her out of her legitimate right to compete there.
For the rest, see my answer to the first quote.

 

[Matleo]

Cynthia vs Leon would be nice when we could see a Mega Garchom battling G-Charizard.
Would be interesting.

I wonder if they could create Cynthia a new mega stone?
Could imagine Garchomp with type change actually, becoming a dragon/fairy with that star on its head.
or if her Garchomp gets a G-max form maybe in future?

Lance only Dynamaxing his Gyardos is a little lame. Mega vs Gigantamax would be more of a show off here.

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

His "winning streak" would break the moment Cynthia was allowed to enter with a Dyna-/Gigantamaxed or a Mega-evolved Garchomp. I'm sure of it. But the writers seem to have cheated her out of her legitimate right to compete there.
For the rest, see my answer to the first quote.

You speak like someone in the writers’ room was laughing as they purposefully wrote Cynthia off of this out of spite. She simply wasn’t what they wanted to showcase, and probably not the best champion to act as fodder anyway. But for all we know, she didn’t sign in. It’s that simple.

 

[Pulsaro23]

Says who? If you read what I wrote you'd realize I said "fans of Cynthia", not everybody.

And I'm pretty sure that's what @Vengeful Ghost was saying: that you don't speak for all of her fans.

And I personally consider myself the world's greatest Cynthia fan!
I don't know if I can count you in , but I'm absolutely sure most Cynthia fans will agree with me.

Well, isn't that the most megalomaniac thing I've heard around here. "I'm the world's greatest Cynthia fan"? Was there a contest to decide who's Cynthia biggest fan that you won? Have you squared off against other Cynthia fans and won? Now, you may be a huge fan of hers, but the greatest in all the world? Delusional overstatement doesn't even begin to cover it. I'm not even sure how one would be able to prove that.

And even if you were indeed her biggest fan on this entire planet somehow, that still doesn't mean that you can speak for all of her fans or that you're the one and only person who gets to decide who is and isn't a fan of Cynthia's based on whether you approve of them or not. I consider myself a fan of Cynthia's and I most definitely wouldn't want her to replace Lance here just so she could lose to Leon.

I don't know what makes you say that because we have no reason whatsoever to believe that Leon will win that match.

Actually, there is: Leon is portrayed as the strongest Champion there is in Sword & Shield and it is made very clear throughout the games that he's never lost a single battle. That's one of the key elements regarding Leon's character, so of course the anime's going to keep his undefeatability when adapting his character. What they're doing this episode is simply show how incredibly powerful and impossible to defeat Leon is, by having him fight against another Pokémon Champion (a trainer who's theoretically supposed to be on the same level as him in terms of strength and knowledge of Pokémon battles) and having the latter lose so as to boost Leon's image as this powerful, unstoppable behemoth.

And even if he does, it's not a legit victory. Like I said in my last post, the writers let him have an unfair advantage by giving him a Gigantamaxed Pokemon for free which no other champion has had so far, just for the sake of marketing and introducing the most prominent feature of the new games ...

"Not a legit victory". "giving him a Gigantamaxed Pokemon for free". According to whom? Gigantamaxing may be more uncommon than regular Dynamaxing, but it's not so rare that it's impossible to find. All of the Gym Leaders in Galar and the rivals in SWSH have a G-Max Pokémon and even the player can obtain them through Max Raid Battles in the Wild Area, so obviously the other Champions could've gone and caught a G-Max Pokémon if they so wished to. Now the mechanic may be broken and the battle system in SWSH may be too centered around Dynamaxing, but that doesn't mean that Leon having a G-Max in the anime is unfair to his competition (since, again, the other could go and catch a G-Max if they had to or wanted to), nor does it make his victory illegitimate because he used one, especially since the other Champions still have access to Dynamaxing (as we see Lance's Red Gyarados Dynamax in the preview), which is the same as Gigantamaxing, except for the appearance change and the exclusive G-Max Move.

She had more appearances and character development than any other so-called champion before

Yeah, she had more appearances and was more involved in the plot and in Ash's character arc than most of the other Champions. But that doesn't equal character development. Her world views don't change in any way by the end of the series, her character never evolves, she's never shown to have any internal or external struggles... her character remains the same throughout the entire saga, so saying that she had more character development is just... not true. At all.

 

[game3524]

Lol at the notion that Cynthia was “cheated”. She is a fictional character. Lance was likely chosen because both kids and their parents are more likely to know who he is thanks to nostalgia and the Let’s Go games.

Besides Cynthia fanboys shouldn’t complain after Unova when they made Alder look like a clown to prop her up.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

They needed someone for Leon to defeat to show his power, so whichever Champion made it to face Leon would have to be defeated for the plot's sake. Just be glad it isn’t Cynthia who's said fodder.

 

[BigDocFan]

Not seeing a lot of signs that suggest a meeting between Lance and Ash

Would be nice if they do meet, the very least I hope Ash acknowledges knowing Lance

 

[Queen Cynthia]

"Not a legit victory". "giving him a Gigantamaxed Pokemon for free". According to whom?

According to common sense. And I feel a little bit awkward for having to explain it again and again....
It's as if you had a flyweight boxer compete against a heavyweight boxer. I guess no one would honestly doubt that's pretty unfair, right?

since the other Champions still have access to Dynamaxing (as we see Lance's Red Gyarados Dynamax in the preview),

I don't know where this idea comes from but judging from the preview, we can't be sure if Lance really gets a Dynamaxed Gyarados. It's already a big Pokemon and from the angle in the preview you can't say for sure if it's really Dynamaxed or if it's just its normal size.

so obviously the other Champions could've gone and caught a G-Max Pokémon if they so wished to.

Well, you make it appear as if its the other champions' fault they don't possess Gigantamaxed Pokemon. In the Pokemon universe (just like in all fictional stories) there is no free will. The characters only do what the writers want them to do. So it's clearly not Cynthia's (or any other champion's) fault if the writers just won't let her return with a Megaevolved or Gigantamaxed Pokemon. And that's why I said she was cheated, especially given the fact that throughout Sinnoh and Unova she actually proved to be the wisest and most powerful Pokemon Master in various appearances and battles, while now its just "Oh yeah, here's Leon, he's done nothing so far to deserve it but you are supposed to consider him the strongest from now on." That's terrible, terrible story telling just for the sake of marketing ...

I consider myself a fan of Cynthia's and I most definitely wouldn't want her to replace Lance here just so she could lose to Leon.

Now you have a point. And that's exactly what's so awfully wrong about that episode. They "waste" an acclaimed and great champion like Lance (and yes, he's also one of my favorite ones) just to lose (although we still don't know that) to a guy who's done nothing yet to prove he's worthy of that title. Compared to Cynthia or Lance he's got no background story, no achievements, nothing!
As a veteran fan who's seen all the champions so far and what they're capable of, I simply refuse to have our precious champions like Cynthia, Lance or Steven sacrificed just for the sake of a very very bad plot. I'm much too passionate about those most precious characters that I could accept that.
If anything, let it be a match between Cynthia and Lance which would coincide much better with the recent developments in Pokemon Masters. Introduce Leon in an ordinary episode, just like they did with all champions so far, give him the chance to prove he's really worthy of being the champion and spare such an epic match like the World Championship finals for the very last episode of the whole show which would be much more fitting in my eyes. It would be that easy, wouldn't it? Oh well...

her character remains the same throughout the entire saga, so saying that she had more character development is just... not true. At all.

I was not just talking about character development (besides, not every character needs development to be great per se), I was also talking about achievements and things she said during her many appearances. Something I've only seen from Lance and partly from Steven/Diantha so far.

They needed someone for Leon to defeat to show his power, so whichever Champion made it to face Leon would have to be defeated for the plot's sake. Just be glad it isn’t Cynthia who's said fodder.

With a heavy heart I must say you're probably right! The concept of the episode is already messed up in my opinion, so the only comfort I find is they didn't use precious Cynthia as fodder but somebody else. Although frankly, Lance doesn't deserve it, either. Why not use Alder? Oh well, I just hope it'll all be over quickly ...

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

I don't know where this idea comes from but judging from the preview, we can't be sure if Lance really gets a Dynamaxed Gyarados. It's already a big Pokemon and from the angle in the preview you can't say for sure if it's really Dynamaxed or if it's just its normal size.

We can clearly see the Dynamax "clouds" over its head in the preview, plus it's clearly using Max Geyser. So yeah. Lance does use Dynamax too here.

 

[Pulsaro23]

It's as if you had a flyweight boxer compete against a heavyweight boxer. I guess no one would honestly doubt that's pretty unfair, right?

Except that this isn't like that at all. Both of them are strong trainer, both have powerful Pokémon, both have access to Dynamaxing (which isn't illegal, btw)... if anything, Lance has the advantage, since Gyarados is a Water-type and Charizard is a Fire-type (not that type advantages would guarantee a victory in the anime). Its not a match between a no-name noob and mega-ultra-super-ultimate god. It's a battle between two, theoretically equally-skilled trainers. So whoever wins this match has won it legitimatly. The end.

I don't know where this idea comes from but judging from the preview, we can't be sure if Lance really gets a Dynamaxed Gyarados. It's already a big Pokemon and from the angle in the preview you can't say for sure if it's really Dynamaxed or if it's just its normal size.

Shiny red aura, three red clouds above its head, it uses what looks to be a Max Move... Yup, Lance's Red Gyarados is quite clearly Dynamaxed. The end.

I was not just talking about character development (besides, not every character needs development to be great per se)

But you still brought it up here, which is what I was responding to:

She had more appearances and character development than any other so-called champion before

As for the rest of your post, you're right, we haven't seen what Leon's capable of. We haven't seen him in action yet, as he was just recently introduced in the games and hasn't even appeared yet in the anime. We don't know what he's capable of and we have yet to see how his battle with Lance goes, so we can't say if he's being handed out victories by the writers for free and whether the other Champions are being sacrificed and turned into jokes/jobbers in order to hype Leon. So how about we all wait until tomorrow for the episode to air before we start ranting about how terrible Leon is and how stupid the writing has become? Who knows, maybe the battle will actually get a lot of focus during the episode and both Lance and Leon will get to show off why they're both incredible Champions in their own rights and maybe Lance will even give Leon a run for his money before Galar's undefeated champion beats him.

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Ok when it comes to the "Leon is at an unfair advantage"-part I have to admit I was wrong. The version of the preview I saw last week might have been cut off, so I didn't see the red clouds. Sorry...!

As for the rest, I'll stick to my opinion that he shouldn't be hyped like that for no reason and that such an important match should be at the end of the league or at the end of the whole show (If there's ever an end to Pokemon )

Well, and for the "undefeated" part, I still remember a certain Guzma quite well who also claimed to be undefeated. We all know what happened. So, I don't know what to think of it.

So how about we all wait until tomorrow for the episode to air

Yes, you're right here. The thing is, I don't know if I really want to see what I think will become a total mess. I don't know if I really want to see when the most precious champions are neglected (Cynthia) or sacrificed (Lance) just for the sake of the plot. It hurts a lot!
And now I also hope you can understand why I'm so passionate, sad and agitated at the same time. To me that's not a ordinary COTD-filler episode but something where there's so much at stake.

 

[Vengeful Ghost]

Come on guys, don't get so unnecessarily agitated just because I said Leon reminded me of a ghetto kid. I didn't mean to insult any minority whatsoever and I didn't even allude to his skin color which I couldn't care less about (Did you really, I mean really think I'm that stupid? Next time I don't like somebody who's wearing a read shirt, somebody will accuse me of "discriminating" people with read shirts or what?)

Actually, my remarks are about classism, not racism. Thanks to you and the poster above you, I can certainly label you as both. Thanks for digging the hole.

But just look at him: That baseball cap that makes him look like a gangsta rapper (You prefer that term? Fine I'll use that from now on), combined with that inelegant cape? Come on boy, show some class when you dress, especially when you claim to be a (worthy) champion! That's all I wanted to say.

A sporting champion in a sporting event who has more sponsors than anyone in the region dressing in sporting gear. Wow, such a classless person for dressing in uniform.

In that case you would expect all competitors to have access to Mega Evolution, Z-moves or Gigantamaxed Pokemon. As simple as that! Just because those power boosts hadn't been introduced yet when Lance and Cynthia first appeared, doesn't make Leon superior and by no means "the greatest". That's what I call a huge and unfair disadvantage and that has always been my sole reason for being so angry about that episode. (I wonder how often I'll have to repeat that)

You get the definition correct, yet you fail to grasp what it means.

To move the goalposts is to skew the rules in favor of one participant in a game. It means everyone has the opportunity to die on the hill they choose to die on. Considering that Lance is shown to use Gigantimax, your argument of the anime moving goalposts is uninformed and invalid.

There is no truth in the Anime. The only "truth" is the writers' subjective opinion. And if you call my posts futile, then everything we do here and on other forums is just as futile.
Debating episodes we can't change anyways, filling whole threads with personal speculations, most of which will never come true anyways, or even making up fanfics must then be considered futile too according to your definition, because they're all reflections of personal opinions that don't matter in the first place. Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with what I just said (otherwise I wouldn't be here), but if you insist on calling my opinion and my fight for Cynthia's honor futile, then let me ask you what makes my opinion worse or less legit than any other debate or futile headcanon here?

I'm going to tell you what every English teacher and lawyer I've ever had to deal with. You are entitled to whatever you believe. Your beliefs, however, are not made equal. There are informed opinions and uninformed ones.

Let's look at the nonsense:

1. "the writers let him have an unfair advantage by giving him a Gigantamaxed Pokemon for free which no other champion has had so far" - refuted by how you admit to failing to notice the red clouds signifying Gigantimax
2. "Then I suppose no champion ever had any arc in the show. And by the way, is mentoring others and saving the world really such a bad and boring achievement that you seem to willingly ignore everything Cynthia did in the Anime? Especially when compared to other champions that I hardly remember why they were there in the first place?" - actively ignoring the definition of character development. A non-sequitur at best to to question of "What character development?"
3. And the aforementioned display of classism and racism

His "winning streak" would break the moment Cynthia was allowed to enter with a Dyna-/Gigantamaxed or a Mega-evolved Garchomp. I'm sure of it. But the writers seem to have cheated her out of her legitimate right to compete there.
For the rest, see my answer to the first quote.

But I guess I can default to the Serebii definition of moving the goalposts.

Outcome a fan likes = good writing
Outcome a fan doesn't like = DEM, didn't enjoy much

 

[Singaporean]

Second and final preview of the episode:

 

[Lightning Flame Blast]

Second and final preview of the episode:

8 seconds out of a 30 seconds video... wow.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

8 seconds out of a 30 seconds video... wow.

And almost 3 seconds of it is just Ash and Go posing.