Starter discussion/speculation

[Envoy]

I'm interested in learning the mechanics of Spirit Shackle, Decidueye's signature move. Depending on how it works it could either be useless or broken. If it works exactly like Mean Look, then its pretty useless, but if it can, say, trap a Pokemon even if Deci itself switches out or faints, then holy shit that's broken.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

I'm interested in learning the mechanics of Spirit Shackle, Decidueye's signature move. Depending on how it works it could either be useless or broken. If it works exactly like Mean Look, then its pretty useless, but if it can, say, trap a Pokemon even if Deci itself switches out or faints, then holy shit that's broken.

Nah assuming that it's BP isn't ass it will probs be really good. The thing is that it prevents double switching - if you Spirit Shackle a Heatran into battle, you can go into whatever your heart desires and set up on the Tran because the opponent can't do anything to stop you. Like, let's say that you have a Mega Alakazam in the back. Heatran comes in and gets Shackled on the switch. Now, YOU can switch out, but Heatran can't. You switch to Mega Alakazam and Trace Flash Fire. You absorb Lava Plume. Now, you get to set up a Substitute or a Calm Mind while the Tran is forced to switch for fear of being KO'd by the combination of the Spirit Shackle damage and an incoming Focus Blast.

 

[Envoy]

Nah assuming that it's BP isn't ass it will probs be really good. The thing is that it prevents double switching - if you Spirit Shackle a Heatran into battle, you can go into whatever your heart desires and set up on the Tran because the opponent can't do anything to stop you. Like, let's say that you have a Mega Alakazam in the back. Heatran comes in and gets Shackled on the switch. Now, YOU can switch out, but Heatran can't. You switch to Mega Alakazam and Trace Flash Fire. You absorb Lava Plume. Now, you get to set up a Substitute or a Calm Mind while the Tran is forced to switch for fear of being KO'd by the combination of the Spirit Shackle damage and an incoming Focus Blast.

Hence my point. If Deci can trap the Pokemon without being locked into battle herself in order to keep the effect, then Spirit Shackle is going to be a seriously awesome move, assuming Deci's stats can back it up. Might just be enough to get Deci to OU. Maybe.

Consider that the only safe switch-ins would be Normal types. Counters would get trapped into battle while you switch to their counter and if Deci has usable attack and speed, it should be able to handle everything else fairly well.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Hence my point. If Deci can trap the Pokemon without being locked into battle herself in order to keep the effect, then Spirit Shackle is going to be a seriously awesome move, assuming Deci's stats can back it up. Might just be enough to get Deci to OU. Maybe.

Consider that the only safe switch-ins would be Normal types. Counters would get trapped into battle while you switch to their counter and if Deci has usable attack and speed, it should be able to handle everything else fairly well.

No no no, what I described above is literally exactly how mean look works. You said that if Shackle worked like mean look it would be pretty useless, but the scenario I just described would play out exactly the same if Decidueye had used Mean Look instead of Spirit Shackle on the switch (except for the part where Focus Blast would be able to kill the Tran in 1 shot, since the Tran would not have taken prior damage)

 

[Envoy]

No no no, what I described above is literally exactly how mean look works. You said that if Shackle worked like mean look it would be pretty useless, but the scenario I just described would play out exactly the same if Decidueye had used Mean Look instead of Spirit Shackle on the switch (except for the part where Focus Blast would be able to kill the Tran in 1 shot, since the Tran would not have taken prior damage)

Oh. I always thought the effect of Mean Look wore off if the user switched. Idk why.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Oh. I always thought the effect of Mean Look wore off if the user switched. Idk why.

It does. As soon as the user of Mean Look/Spirit Shackle switches out, the opponent is henceforth free to switch out. This is irrelevant, however, because on the turn the trapper switches out, the foe is still trapped. Here's an example to ilustrate what I mean:

Scenario 1:

Turn 1:
Go, Latios!
Envoy sent out Decidueye!
Latios, come back! Go, Heatran!
The opposing Decidueye used Shadow Claw!

Turn 2:
Envoy withdrew Decidueye!
Envoy sent out Houndoom!
Heatran, come back! Go, Rotom!

In this scenario, I would be in a good spot, since I predicted your switch into Houndoom and made the double into Rotom-W. Houndoom would not be able to KO Rotom-W in one hit, but Rotom has a good chance to OHKO with Hydro Pump - or it could even Volt Switch out in order to gain momentum.

Scenario 2:

Turn 1:
Go, Latios!
Envoy sent out Decidueye!
Latios, come back! Go, Heatran!
Decidueye used Spirit Shackle!
Heatran is trapped and can't switch out!

Turn 2:
Envoy withdrew Decidueye!
Envoy sent out Houndoom!
Heatran used Lava Plume!
>Houndoom's Flash Fire
The power of the opposing Houndoom's Fire moves went up!

Turn 3:
Heatran, come back! Go, Rotom!
The opposing Houndoom Mega Evolved into Mega Houndoom!
The opposing Houndoom used Nasty Plot!

Turn 4:
The opposing Houndoom used Dark Pulse!
Rotom fainted!


In THIS scenario, you get a free turn to set up with Houndoom on Turn 3 because I wasn't allowed to switch on Turn 2. Even though the effects of Spirit Shackle disappeared as soon as Decidueye switched out, you're still left with exactly 1 free turn to do as you please since I am unable to double switch when I come in. And in competitive mons, 1 turn can make ALL the difference

 

[Envoy]

See, what I'm talking about Spirit Shackle's effect persisting even after the switch-out turn. As in, the Heatran wouldn't be able to switch out, period. Two, three, five, twenty turns after Deci is off the field, Heatran would still be unable to switch.

 

[Guzma]

Wow, that sounds like that'd put Deci at least in UU territory.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

See, what I'm talking about Spirit Shackle's effect persisting even after the switch-out turn. As in, the Heatran wouldn't be able to switch out, period. Two, three, five, twenty turns after Deci is off the field, Heatran would still be unable to switch.

Yeah it 100% will NOT do that lol, but it doesn't need to. What I described is already REALLY good

 

[The Outrage]

Are MegaZardX or Reshiram now useless fodder since Primarina handily counters them? No. They're still badass. Likewise, Primarina will still be badass even if Venusaur counters her.

Old but like...Azumarill as Water/Fairy been a thing for a whole generation now

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Old but like...Azumarill as Water/Fairy been a thing for a whole generation now

indeed, and bulky azu has been quite handy as a zardx check/counter

 

[Blue_Cheshire]

Yeah it 100% will NOT do that lol, but it doesn't need to. What I described is already REALLY good

I could kinda see it having an effect, so that the opponent can't switch out for like 3 turns or something. Or would that be OP?

If it is really just like Mean Look then I hope its BP is at least 80, because then it would have a viable physical ghost move.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

I could kinda see it having an effect, so that the opponent can't switch out for like 3 turns or something. Or would that be OP?

If it is really just like Mean Look then I hope its BP is at least 80, because then it would have a viable physical ghost move.

If it was something as specific as that I would assume it would be in the description of the move. The fact that the text is identical to Mean Look, Thousand Waves, etc implies that it functions in the same way

 

[The Outrage]

Since I brought up Azumarill--while I think Primarina would be good (by virtue of its typing alone) I don't think it'll be OU good since it has to compete against Azumarill unless it carves a niche. Since it'll likely have special attack and and another 100 - 120 base stats, Primarina can hopefully take a more bulky role. Using Azumarill's stats as a base:

HP: 100
Atk: 50
Def: 100 (+20)
SpA: 90 (+40)
SpD: 120 (+40)
Spe: 70 (+20)

So this would have Primarina at 530 BST, which is around where the other starters are. It certainly won't hit harder than Azumarill but it'll definitely have better bulk. If it gets Calm Mind then it'll be fairly good at attacking as well. If Game Freak really wants to love Popplio, 120 HP/50 Spe

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Since I brought up Azumarill--while I think Primarina would be good (by virtue of its typing alone) I don't think it'll be OU good since it has to compete against Azumarill unless it carves a niche. Since it'll likely have special attack and and another 100 - 120 base stats, Primarina can hopefully take a more bulky role. Using Azumarill's stats as a base:

HP: 100
Atk: 50
Def: 100 (+20)
SpA: 90 (+40)
SpD: 120 (+40)
Spe: 70 (+20)

So this would have Primarina at 530 BST, which is around where the other starters are. It certainly won't hit harder than Azumarill but it'll definitely have better bulk. If it gets Calm Mind then it'll be fairly good at attacking as well. This is also obviously way too optimized for its strength since Game Freak will likely make Atk and SpA m

I doubt they'll compete much (if at all) since Azu is a physical sweeper/wallbreaker (depending on if you run Belly Drum or Choice Band) and Primarina very much does NOT look like a physical sweeper OR wallbreaker

 

[KamuiSama]

I doubt they'll compete much (if at all) since Azu is a physical sweeper/wallbreaker (depending on if you run Belly Drum or Choice Band) and Primarina very much does NOT look like a physical sweeper OR wallbreaker

judging by the look alone, do you think Azumarill look like a physical sweeper or wallbreaker mon? I'm not sure... and it might also be applied to Primarina as well.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

judging by the look alone, do you think Azumarill look like a physical sweeper or wallbreaker mon? I'm not sure... and it might also be applied to Primarina as well.

Azu, Diggersby, Mega Lopunny - I think GameFreak has a strongly held belief that all ranbbits have super strength hidden beneath their cuddly exteriors. Lol.

But seriously Primarina is not going to be physical attack oriented, I'd bet my life savings lol

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Primarina is probably be a special attacker like other water types. Plus there are more special water moves than physical water moves.

 

[Guzma]

I'm honestly worried Prima's going to be overshadowed by Tapu Fini thanks to its ability, but she will probably have more bulk than Fini and

Spoiler

if the leak is true, Aurora Veil sounds freaking broken on a Special tank.

 

[Matleo]

I'm interested in learning the mechanics of Spirit Shackle, Decidueye's signature move. Depending on how it works it could either be useless or broken. If it works exactly like Mean Look, then its pretty useless, but if it can, say, trap a Pokemon even if Deci itself switches out or faints, then holy shit that's broken.

not really if only one move and if only some would learn it.