SwSh Starters Discussion

[PkmnTrainerV]

And I'm just like Scorbunny runn, scorbunny normal.

Running doesn’t really suggest a secondary type to me... have we had any normal runners before?

 

[yudgefudge]

Running doesn’t really suggest a secondary type to me... have we had any normal runners before?

Well, I don't think we have any running-centered Pokemon.
I just said that because it doesn't have any flashy superpowers like the other two, therefore he's normal.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Well, I don't think we have any running-centered Pokemon.
I just said that because it doesn't have any flashy superpowers like the other two, therefore he's normal.

I mean... there’s the absence of flashy superpowers and the fire abilities... Typhlosion didn’t have any flashy superpowers and was pure fire...

Pokemon with Something/Normal combination are complicated... the only consistency I’ve noticed is that they’re often normal types from the get go base stage.

 

[Knightwolf09]

You seem to be taking that stat spread for granted but it isn’t concrete: Torracat went from a mixed fast attacker to a bulky slow physical one. It literally lost 30 base points from speed on evolution.

You can argue that Litten ended up that way cause he started off as a lithe quadraped, that bulked up and stood on two legs, dropping his speed factor.

 

[Matleo]

I mean... there’s the absence of flashy superpowers and the fire abilities... Typhlosion didn’t have any flashy superpowers and was pure fire...

Pokemon with Something/Normal combination are complicated... the only consistency I’ve noticed is that they’re often normal types from the get go base stage.

we didn't see other moves and movesets to much because they don't want us to know but hope no pure types because I'm sick of those...
We had 3 grass pure, 3 water pure, 1 pure fire but 3 fire/fighting... that needs to change. The last two generations where a step into right direction.

Taking that rabbit is fast actually a super hero Flash with electric powers would be cool.

Hope that we won't get 3 physical slow grass attackers in a row... at least he needs Fake out as priority option, medicore , speed , good secondary typing rock, steel both used , rock rather because monkeys rather not like ice.

Taking that last gen was slow, this should be faster.

Interesting how could this starters be stats differ from past ones of their respective typing?

Lets take Scorch 3 stage...

Blaziken(Bravebird user) and Emboar high attack oriented and sp. attack with lower speed tier,
Infernape fast and equal distributed stats (hazard setter and drain punch, priority puncher with Ironfist and Dig)
Delphox fast special attacker and sp. wall (where is Illusion fox hello, Magic Bounce, magnet rise, Overcoat ???Magician???)

Thyplosion and Charizard medicore fast special attackers with equal stats distribution

Charizard imunity and Fly user
Thyplosion a dig user with priority options and acces to Eruption
Incineroar and Charizard both with immunities,
Incineroar the slow tier, dual wall like physical focused attacker with Intimidate, Roar and Throat chop

Taking how last was physically could suggest a sp. attacker or equally mixed one, a fast pokemon, but comparing to Infernape rather more defensive, more hp and much more speed.

A hazard setter similar like Greninja comes in mind, high priority attacks, maybe even a ability to destroy oponents hazards or avoid their effects outspeeding them? A u-turn, volt-switch and other switching out options? when i think combining it with electric I see Parabollic charge, drain punch. See it hit fast and retreat or set up heal and switch.

Most were strong force options here that doesn't need to be the case.

Hmmm grass starters.

We had Vensuaur, Meganium, special and physical medium fast walls
Venusaur a poison user oriented on status inducement and hp draning
Meganium hp healer with wall/screen setting aspect
(needs grassy surge, Immuity or Soundproof, learns sound moves but not Perish Song or Boomburst )

Sceptile and Serperior fast monsters,
Serperior a fast dual wall with low attack and sp. attack options ability focused and Glare user.

Chesnaught a physical wall and slow tank grass/fighting in one with ability Bulletproof and move to protect and hurt oponent with Spiky Shield.
Very weak to flying moves. Lack of priority options due to strong attack. (vacuum wave or bullet punch???)
Very good against rock/ground, steel , dark and physical attackers... very weak on special spectre. (Sturdy???)

Torterra a part ground type, electric immunity with physical wall aspect but low speed tier.(stealth rocks+roar+draining move, best combo)
Very weak to ice type moves. (shell armor could only prevent the critical hits but reduce regular damage too or block a move if it would be a critical one) Lack of priority options due to strong attack. (Sand tomb should be a priority move)
Special defense is on the same level as Chesnaught. (Shell armor? Sturdy? Solid Rock?)

Deciduey the first grass with immunity to two types, lower speed tier but a some kind special wall with low defense and high physical attack and a ability to be not affected by effects of contact moves and abilities. Some priority options and Phantom Force to make a point.
Notable ghost type Curse user for the first time a starter. (Disquise???)
Brave bird mentioned?

Taking that we had grass/electric, grass/steel and grass/rock on other pokemon I still think rock would fit now because neutral damage to poison and flying is rare and it doesnt seem like gorillas are resisting ice...

Water:

Blastoise, Feraligatr, Samurott
Duall wall (rain dish and mega with mega launcher)
Physical wall and physical attacker in one, great moset with dragon options (Sheer Force user notable, Multiscale would be lovely)

A strong both offensive with bigger special out take with more defense potential.
Hard hitter with Mega Horn and priority Aqua Jet (shel armor nice but would deserve better, why Lighningrod Seaking? why? why Bulletproof? Why Sap Sipper?) With ice shard would be a dragon slayer.

Then we have Empoleon the Special Tank and special wall with steel typing that supports it very good in that.(needs something better then Defiant)

Swampert , ground perfect against electric, ability Damp is ok it's mega with Swift swim is good but why not Drizzle? taking it dex entry and anime appearance? make it learn aqua ring and make the move get 1/8hp during rain...

Greninja, part dark, immunity, really fast, great setter, switcher and sweeper

Primarine, fairy, very good special wall and special attacker with priority and draining potential, sound user that can as firt starter can Perish song...
___


Notice one thing we never got a starter pokemon that could use Ice shard till now.
Even Empoleon a pinguin that should have got it.
Samurott a seal or sea lion that resides in colder regions?
Everyone only Ice beam or Blizzard...

Maybe the rabbit will be able, a fire type with ice type move would be something.
We nnever got a non ice type other then Phanpy of the ground type.
Though a tiger like Incineroar could or Delphox as magician but Rabbit white as snow would be good.

We didn't get a starter with Boomburst or Soundproof either.

A water and starter with Banneful buncker and Corrosion or corrosive move would be something in future.

Taking that one type repeated itself dark two generations. There can be possibility of ghost or fairy now but
my options are fire/electric, grass/rock and water/poison taking that all this deserve better representative pokemon.

Also grass/rock would survive a Brave Bird and fire attacks.
grass/steel would survive Brave Bird and poison attacks.
grass/electric also would survive Brave Bird but would have 4 weaknesses and one to bug and monkeys eat bugs...
Water/poison resists grass, weak to electric and ground.
Fire/electric fears ground but magnet rise, weak to rock and water

After a generation with 3 immunities used it would be a refreshing other options are fire/fairy, fire/ghost strong and rather to strong for a fast pokemon like a starter. water/ghost , grass/fairy could be... fire/steel, grass/electric, grass/steel, water/electric and water/fighting are options but the trailer showed invisibility, rock and electric wind mil with steel wheel.

Chameloens have relation so much with poison like with ghosts in popular culture...
Psychic is out of business because a chameleon weak to bug would be totaly silly.
Ghost resists bug like poison does... The card with Sobbles chemical move aspect and the crying would suggest poison.
Chameleons are not poisonous but fire dragon like lizards that fly are also rare.

I think a long tongue could be used for fast priority punching moves as a soltion if it's slow...
Liked the horn sobble evo concept that could learn mega horn and first impression.
The chameleon spirit animal symbolizes sensitivity and clairvoyance.
They attack from a distance and are slow... Special attacker?

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In europe we have them in spain but lizards, like Basilisk are mostly associated with poison.
Color change possible but Protean on a second water starter? Camouflage user confirmed.
Rather "Invisibility" would be much cooler. Sobble looks like a Plummed basilisk.

"In European bestiaries and legends, a basilisk (/ˈbæsɪlɪsk/ or /ˈbæzɪlɪsk/,[1] from the Greek βασιλίσκος basilískos, "little king"; Latin regulus) is a legendary reptile reputed to be a serpent king, who can cause death with a single glance. According to the Naturalis Historia of Pliny the Elder, the basilisk of Cyrene is a small snake, "being not more than twelve fingers in length",[2] that is so venomous, "
I know serpent but maybe they take the more lizard variant then actual snake this time. A triple horned chameleon would be outstanding.

New water type and starter Glare user confirmed and first one.

Fast white bunny with yellow dots like battery have battery and light rabbit in pop culture and we have the hero Flash with electric motives and a thunder rabbit legend...
Mountain gorilla or ape? Mountain... they fear thunder, eat bugs dont like cold... there is a blue steel gorilla in nature and a Steel Mechorilla in pop
culture. Fairy and gorrilla is not my pop culture at all on goodle.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

You can argue that Litten ended up that way cause he started off as a lithe quadraped, that bulked up and stood on two legs, dropping his speed factor.

Yeah, we don’t know what happens to Grookey on evolution. For all we know Grookey bends towards special stats or a roughly equal split between physical on evolution.
The stat focus in the base stage is now not completely reliable in determining the future starter roles. If we had access to Litten’s base stats before knowing of Incineroar I’m pretty sure speedy mixed or special attacker would be the most prominent speculation, but see what we ended up with.

 

[ShieldFan]

Well, taking into acount that all Gen 7 starters evolutions (Decidueye, Incineroar and Primarina) got signature moves, so I do think that Grookey will get a signature move too - maybe a new physical move.

 

[blitzle stan]

Y'all... It ain't gonna be some obscure reasoning. Pokémon doesn't do that. This reminds me too much of all the alchemy nonsense that people spent ages looking into for SM and ended up being absolutely nothing beyond coincidence and really vague, superficial design inspiration.

I'm still team Grass/Fairy because 'healing'. Just like how Decidueye was ghost because 'Hawaiian ghost owl + hidden sniper" (the hidden part being the same reason I think Sobble will go ghost).

 

[Knightwolf09]

Yeah, we don’t know what happens to Grookey on evolution. For all we know Grookey bends towards special stats or a roughly equal split between physical on evolution.
The stat focus in the base stage is now not completely reliable in determining the future starter roles. If we had access to Litten’s base stats before knowing of Incineroar I’m pretty sure speedy mixed or special attacker would be the most prominent speculation, but see what we ended up with.

While speed is one thing, but how often do pokemon switch attack stats? Which can inturn screw up movesets and planned natures if they pull the switch on you. I mean speed is one thing, at least Incineroar kept it's attack and sp.attack stats

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

While speed is one thing, but how often do pokemon switch attack stats? Which can inturn screw up movesets and planned natures if they pull the switch on you. I mean speed is one thing, at least Incineroar kept it's attack and sp.attack stats

It does go from having even attack and special attack stats to having a higher attack stat in the final stage, while the Sp Attack remains identical to the previous form.
The line goes from mixed to primarily physical.

 

[Knightwolf09]

It does go from having even attack and special attack stats to having a higher attack stat in the final stage, while the Sp Attack remains identical to the previous form.
The line goes from mixed to primarily physical.

Which I think most of it's speed went into physical

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Which I think most of it's speed went into physical

So Grookey could potentially end up having even attack and special attack stats, trading physical powers for special abilities.

 

[Knightwolf09]

So Grookey could potentially end up having even attack and special attack stats, trading physical powers for special abilities.

Which again, how often does that happen for attack stats?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Which again, how often does that happen for attack stats?

It literally happened for Incineroar when it’s Sp. Attack capped at Torracat stage... We have a precedent for how a starter's base form's specialisation doesn’t reflect the final form now.

Unless you mean lore reasons, which can be explained by preferring to use mental/mystic abilities over brute force as a Grookey matures.

 

[Knightwolf09]

It literally happened for Incineroar when it’s Sp. Attack capped at Torracat stage... We have a precedent for how a starter's base form's specialisation doesn’t reflect the final form now.

Unless you mean lore reasons, which can be explained by preferring to use mental/mystic abilities over brute force as a Grookey matures.

Again Incineroar traded it's speed for attack. Never, at least from what I know, has a pokemon traded attack for more Special attack.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Again Incineroar traded it's speed for attack. Never, at least from what I know, has a pokemon traded attack for more Special attack.

It couldn’t be a trade pe se, (and we don’t have any way of determining what was specifically traded for btw), Grookey's (or its Mid Evo's) Attack could simply stop increasing on evolution like Torracat's special attack didn't increase on evolving.

 

[BigBadButterfree]

Again Incineroar traded it's speed for attack. Never, at least from what I know, has a pokemon traded attack for more Special attack.

It's not unheard of for a Pokemon to switch which main attacking stat it focuses on upon evolving. Look at Zweilous into Hydreigon.

 

[Knightwolf09]

It couldn’t be a trade pe se, (and we don’t have any way of determining what was specifically traded for btw), Grookey's (or its Mid Evo's) Attack could simply stop increasing on evolution like Torracat's special attack didn't increase on evolving.

It's not unheard of for a Pokemon to switch which main attacking stat it focuses on upon evolving. Look at Zweilous into Hydreigon.

Both are fair points. Though I'm still skeptical.

 

[BigBadButterfree]

Both are fair points. Though I'm still skeptical.

Understandable to be so. But also a good idea to be open to any possibility, given this is game freak lol.

 

[StrawberryMiltank]

....I just realized something and I can see GF doing this. Grookey will evolve into a hippie gorilla. It uses a drum to use sound healing therapy. And is inspired by the psychadelic genre of music. So maybe Grass/Psychic or Fairy

I really like this idea and wanted to give it a try! This is my first time making a fan evolution for a Pokémon :0