• Hey guys! Have you heard? We now have popup
    Yes, Popups!
    messages for your forum posts. Learn more about it here!
  • To keep up with the hype driven by Sword and Shield's release, we are taking applications for new moderators in our Current Events: Sword and Shield as well as Anime and Manga sections.

    For more information, see this thread.We hope you all consider joining our team!
  • We hope you're enjoying Sword and Shield so far! So that everyone can enjoy it and not be spoiled, please keep the all story spoilers and any images from the games in the appropriate sections or in spoiler tags until January 3rd.

    Since spoiler tags are not allowed in signatures, please do not put images from the games in your signature either. You can list the names of new Pokémon if you want to list your team in your signature.
  • We're launching a brand new series on the official Bulbagarden YouTube Channel! Watch here as AussieEevee attempts the Nuzlocke Challenge in HeartGold.
  • The forums' software will be updated on December 9th, 2019 and may be down for several hours to multiple days for this process. Thank you for your patience, we hope this update will improve your experience here.

    Why not join us over on discord during the downtime?

SPOILERS: Story Discussion

Active Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
332
Reaction score
609
That's saddening they're pretty much forever a complete strangers in his mind and he's never gonna be the same again......damn....its been years I guess she moved on and glad to know he at least is happy and alright oh well nothing really big.
 
Last edited:
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 24, 2017
Messages
277
Reaction score
760
"You'd better be ready for the mischief masters of Team Skull to do some Mantine Surfing, too!"
"Oh. Team Skull. You know you guys can't ride here."
"What's up with that?! We look like kids to you or somethin'?!"
"No. The real reason is..."
"Yeah, the real reason is?"
"Every time you try, you keep up those ridiculous dance moves even on Mantine's back. And then you end up in the water."
"You want us to stop dancing?! That's our identity, yo! It's all we've got!"

In other news, Team Skull is still comedy gold.
 
Active Member
Joined
Sep 26, 2017
Messages
332
Reaction score
609
"You'd better be ready for the mischief masters of Team Skull to do some Mantine Surfing, too!"
"Oh. Team Skull. You know you guys can't ride here."
"What's up with that?! We look like kids to you or somethin'?!"
"No. The real reason is..."
"Yeah, the real reason is?"
"Every time you try, you keep up those ridiculous dance moves even on Mantine's back. And then you end up in the water."
"You want us to stop dancing?! That's our identity, yo! It's all we've got!"

In other news, Team Skull is still comedy gold.
Yup still perfect!
 
真実の英雄
Joined
May 2, 2011
Messages
1,573
Reaction score
333
It's interesting that Ghetsis thinks Giovanni would be easier to manipulate than N. At first I thought Ghetsis somehow got dumber, but maybe N wasn't as agreeable as Ghetsis hoped he'd be. It's a shame we only learn this in an alternate universe that doesn't offer much besides "this is what happens if someone never plays any of the games."
 
Bzweeeep!!
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
748
Reaction score
79
Well, someone over on Tumblr just spoiled it. I have seen two lines of dialogue and a LOT of discussion. It seems to really be true that Colress achieves a sort of major-ish character status, as in, he's important to the storyline more than tangentially. And that he has crossed the threshold and become something of a protagonist. Someone at Gamefreak is looking out for me.

"I'm so used to giving, and now I get to receive."
 
debates about Rugrats canon
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
5,898
Reaction score
15,402
Having watched it now, I liked the RR Episode more than I thought I would. Gameplay-wise, I like how the bosses are distributed across the previously inaccessible rooms of Aether Paradise, and battling them with Legendaries on their teams looks fun. The concept wasn't handled as messily as I expected, either - they didn't overthink it; the non-Giovanni villains just got sucked into wormholes right at their moments of victory because of Necrozma (which is indeed a pretty flaky excuse, but whatever) and were kind of just waiting around patiently for a way to return to their worlds, which the Aether technology would allow them to do. It's not like they all willfully banded together with the goal of dominating all worlds in the multiverse - only Giovanni had that intention, and then Ghetsis came to like the idea as well (because of course he would), but with Archie and Lysandre, unleashing their plans on the USUM world isn't an active determination so much as it is a whim under the circumstances.

The different flashes of character moments were enjoyable. Archie and Maxie bickering as always, Ghetsis being his fabulous self (And then Colress! I never expected this plotline to suddenly give me a snapshot of B3W3...), Lysandre repeating his button choice dilemma... and then Cyrus.

Okay, I have to be honest, I feel like a blind goddamned fool. It is, to some extent, Bulbapedia's fault because they include the diary text on Charon's page, but there is also the fact that Rotom only appears in the Old Chateau and nowhere near Sunyshore City. Anyway, I have only just now realized that the diary in the Rotom appliance room in Platinum, the one about the kid befriending a Rotom that inhabited his toy robot, was actually Cyrus's. And of course it was Cyrus's; the toy robot and the structured, eloquent vocabulary are such dead giveaways. But all this time, I only ever saw people saying it was Charon's, and there was another notebook that was definitely Charon's in that room as well, so that among other small factors - I have assumed that sad backstory notebook was Charon's for years. Until now, because GF had the spatial awareness to include a small moment of interaction between Cyrus and your Rotom Dex, where I think Cyrus gets almost a bit nostalgic and chooses to leave the USUM world alone. I feel like my whole understanding of Cyrus was flipped upside-down by this. :confused: But my opinion of him has improved too, so that's good. Bravo GF.

... and then there's Giovanni, who is by far the weakest link in the whole affair. Sure, while I do prefer, for instance, his characterization in Origins, I've never thought it particularly implausible that he would lie to Red's face and secretly plan to revive Team Rocket. It's boring and less interesting, but not surprising. But I thought we would see more to him here. I guess "generic power-hungry mob boss" is the role that GF have deigned for him to have forever, because that's all he is in the RR Episode, just with more multiversal aims for no explicit reason (although... I'm clearly a huge Ghetsis fanboy, so Ghetsis remarking on Giovanni's bland predictability and planning to exploit it makes it a little more tolerable... a little more). Oh well. At least he looks cool, and him using a Mega Mewtwo is pretty awesome.

As an additional aimless thought, I wonder how Ghetsis took control of Reshiram/Zekrom. The reason why the other bosses all own Legendary Pokémon is obvious, but Ghetsis would never be able to awaken Reshiram or Zekrom by himself - that is exactly why he relied on N to be their chosen one. Now, the implication throughout the RR Episode (and explicitly stated to be the case in this interview) is that the villain bosses' native worlds are worlds in which the protagonists didn't even exist - so N was installed as king uncontested, but Ghetsis's dialogue suggests that he still became difficult to manage. Perhaps some innate goodness in N proved to be somewhat disruptive for Ghetsis, which in his self-imposed "adviser" position he was forced to abide by - I don't imagine, for instance, that Ghetsis had any personal qualms about the Genesect project, and yet that was still shut down on N's orders. But an N who never met Hildabert would probably still be a very pliable N, so maybe Ghetsis deceived him into transferring ownership of the dragon, ostensibly for its own good or something like that. I suppose it would make sense for him to disarm N of his most powerful asset at some point along the line, and clearly he'd need to be manipulating N to some extent anyway in order to justify his own continued use of Pokémon.

Also, I love all of their new battle theme remixes. Not as much as the originals (or the ORAS mix in Archie/Maxie's case), but they're still some really great tracks.

What I am more curious about is some clues about Ultra Space. The Ultra Ruin, which is Guzzlord's Ultra Space, is heavily implied to be the ruins of Hau'oli City on a parallel Earth that has been consumed by hordes of Guzzlord. There is a rusted sign for the Hau'oli City Hall on the ground, and the music for the area, when played in reverse, very clearly contains snippets of the Hau'oli City theme. So that much is clear... but is the implication that every Ultra Space is a parallel Alola? That wouldn't be my assumption for the Ultra Spaces of the rest of the UBs (unfortunately, we never see the Ultra Spaces for Blacephylon or Stakataka, although I have seen some people claim that they also come from the Ultra Ruin, but I'm not sure what evidence there is for that), but then there are two other things to factor in - the parallel, time-reciprocated Alola that we were able to visit in SM by traveling through the wormhole at the Altar, as well as the "Ultra Space Wilds." In these places, we can encounter non-UB Pokémon that we are very familiar with, including all of the Legendary Pokémon from the first six generations. As we know, this includes Mewtwo, which is man-made. I doubt that GF would suggest that Mewtwo could have occurred naturally, which, in conjunction with the fact that the music for the Ultra Space Wilds is a reversed (and slightly slowed down) version of the "Welcome to Alola!" theme, makes me think that perhaps they're implying that every wormhole destination is a parallel Alola. That would explain why we can find Mewtwo there, because the location would be somewhere on a parallel Earth where the Mewtwo project also occurred.

I suppose it would make sense, although I don't really prefer this interpretation myself (especially not for the UBs sans Guzzlord). I think there is a delightful anti-logic in the idea of a vast multidimensional wilderness that contains both the very bizarre Ultra Beasts as well as relatively common things like Stunfisk and Barbaracle, and even Mewtwo of inexplicable origins.
 
Last edited:
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
13,951
Reaction score
1,762
So why do the villains in this game retain their memories but fallers don't?
 
debates about Rugrats canon
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
5,898
Reaction score
15,402
So why do the villains in this game retain their memories but fallers don't?
Not all Fallers lose their memories. Even in SM, yourself, Lillie, Lusamine, and Guzma all pass through the Wormhole multiple times without losing any memories - I think the implication in SM was that memory loss correlates to time spent in the wormhole, since they mention that Anabel was in there for a long time, and who knows how long it was before Mohn turned up.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
13,951
Reaction score
1,762
I assumed the memory loss was staved off because you were with an Ultra Beast...

I was also thinking: Since all the other bad guys were from worlds where the protagonist doesn't exist, maybe the Ultra Wormhole areas are just the Alola region where the main protagonist didn't exist and the UB's took over?

It doesn't actually explain the actual origin of Ultra Beasts and what the functional difference between Ultra Space and Hoopa's Hyperspace is.
 
debates about Rugrats canon
Joined
Oct 18, 2012
Messages
5,898
Reaction score
15,402
How can we watch it? Is there a YouTube video or something? If so, could you link it?
Haven’t seen any YouTube videos (though I haven’t looked for any); I watched it on a stream which got killed after a while
 
Darth Ignis
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
2,189
Reaction score
1,838
So why do the villains in this game retain their memories but fallers don't?
I wouldn't read too much into things. No explanation for Anabel, but for Looker when he showed up in the post-game of ORAS, I think GF wiped his memories to simply to leave details of how he landed in Hoenn to be completely ambiguous.
 
Stuck
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
18,118
Reaction score
11,515
Mohn did lose his memories after having been to Ultra Space.
 
Stuck
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
18,118
Reaction score
11,515
Nope. We don't even know for sure what world they're from (USUM's or another one where Giovanni won).
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
13,951
Reaction score
1,762
Nope. We don't even know for sure what world they're from (USUM's or another one where Giovanni won).
I'd like to think its an alternate world where Giovanni beat the HgSs protagonist/the protagonist wasn't there to stop him during the time travel event but then got caught by Necrozma.
 
Stuck
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
18,118
Reaction score
11,515
He does say that facing a child is "oddly nostalgic", so I'd think that at least Red defeated him.

If you're right, he would have to have been transported to the USUM world quite a bit before Episode RR begins.

In other news, what exactly is the relationship between Necrozma and the Cosmog family? I know that Solgaleo/Lunala helped protect Alola's light long ago, but how does that explain the fusion business?

Ultra Recon Squad said:
Necrozma will reclaim its true power, now that it has stolen the light from another. But it cannot control that light, and so Necrozma only suffers more.
Burned Book said:
The pillager of light descended from the sky and shrouded the world in darkness. The pillager took from us the beast that devours the sun, using the beast as its own Dusk Mane. A youth and the guardians together used the stones to summon the light once more. The beast that devours the sun was freed from the pillager of light, and the darkness was banished from Alola.
None of this explains why Necrozma needs another legendary to regain its true form. The use of stones to defeat Necrozma is unclear, but it sounds more interesting than what happens in the actual games.

Also, why did the URS want Lusamine to use Nebby for teleportation when they have their own Solgaleo and Lunala? That seems like a plot hole designed to retain the SM drama.
 
Last edited:
Darth Ignis
Joined
Jul 19, 2015
Messages
2,189
Reaction score
1,838
So, does Lillie go to Kanto in USUM? I don't want to know what happens in terms of the ending, just want to know if the Lillie Kanto thing changes.
 
Top