Striving for equality: Why Bulbagarden is taking a pro-LGBTQ stance

[Vyrron]

Yay for the new policy.

 

[sn0w75]

Striving for equality: Why Bulbagarden is taking a pro-LGBTQ stance

Webmaster Archaic of Bulbagarden announced today a new policy against discrimination, hatred and intolerance toward lesbian, gays, bisexuals, transexuals, queers and questioning members of the Bulbagarden community. Many people, even among those who support gay rights, may feel that this is out of place. Bulbagarden is a Pokémon fansite; it shouldn't be taking stance on political issues. Many staff members on Bulbagarden used to think so. But our new policy isn't about politics.

Read more on Bulbanews

Let's calm down and get things straight.

First, it is important to understand that Freedom and Equality are opposing forces.
Let's say you have a race. Freedom is letting everyone run the race as they like; They can run as fast as they like, as slow as they like. Equality is saying that everyone has to run at a certain pace; no one can run faster or slower than that pace.

^Now, the above example puts equality in a rather bad light, because equality results in a loss of freedom. Thus they are opposing forces.

However, there are situations where one may feel it is wrong to let others do as they like. A great example is the Civil War. The North could not stand the idea of slavery in the South. Thus they fought and won a war to impose their opinion of slavery onto the South.

Now, the news article says they are putting their new policy in effect in the name of Equality. However, I believe what they are doing is a show of Freedom.
This server, these forums are owned by someone. That person has the right to do whatever he likes with his property. So if he wants to stop people from bashing people who are different, that's his decision.

Is that censorship? Sure it is. He's saying, "If you want to use my property, you're going to have to play by my rules." And that's fine. It's just like Apple removing apps from their App Store. If you don't like it, go to another website! Buy Android! That's your freedom.

The problem is a situation where the national government says, "No one can remove posts bashing people ANYWHERE on the Internet" or "No one can make posts that bash people ANYWHERE." That is equality; you no longer have a choice.


TL;DR: Bulbagarden can do whatever they want with their forums, so get used to it or get out.

Thank you.

 

[JordanPeace]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, for this wonderful new policy! I have been visiting Bulbapedia for years and it has long been one of my favorite websites. I'm glad to see that it will now be a "safe place" as well. Its hard for people to understand how hurtful anti-gay harassment can be if they've never experienced it personally, but it is unfortunately widespread and far too acceptable in certain circles. I'm glad that Bulbapedia will no longer be one of those places. Thanks again!

 

[Infinity Mk-II]

I only saying that gay people can change too...

This is where you are wrong on several points:
1. You say it is something that can be changed. That is not true, if someone feels truly in a way, it's how they feel and how they should act. "Changing how you feel" is just impossible, because then either you never really felt that way, or you are just restraining your true feelings.
2. You imply it should be changed, or more accurately, that it is okay for a gay person to "not be gay". That is unnaceptance of it, no matter how you put it.
3. You say "too", as if there was something that could "make you gay" to begin with.

That is why what you are saying is very offensive.

It is not that you are forcing an oppinion, is that your oppinion is the sort of thing that should not be tolerated.

 

[pokeextreme]

I not wanted to say your opinion is wrong (since I'm a gamer too), but...
are you have learning some Sociological terms? (not hype here )
you know most people treat them like that because they are "different", this "different" can also be in category freak,nerds,homosexual/lesbian,etc
this is, due the divergence with how most the folkway does....
so this is a natural reaction how most people (of course, not in "different" category) do
but still even though is natural, people have their own right for freedom, but also can't be in category inhumane nor discrimination....
one of the best way and the hardest way to solve this problem is to make a resolution from both party....
the "different" one need to learn how the folkway does, and of course normal people must know what the problem that "different" people disease to cure it

this kind of problem is a hot topic from long time ago (since this kind topic is one of my work does )

Wow, this was one of the most hateful things I've ever read in my life. "cure" the different people. GLBT aren't here to make straight people feel better about themselves, it exists in nature in a myriad of animal species, and by you saying this you've displayed how intolerant and probably incompetent you are in sociology.

 

[Faye Scarlet]

You might want to bring the debating in PMs or the like. 8D; 1st page a mod said this wasn't the place for debates of this subject.

I'm glad this is in place. I'm surprised it wasn't already in place! I'm glad all this anti-LGBTQ BS is only coming from a very vocal minority... Like certain nostalgia fans (of ANY fandom ever) they just need to shush.

 

[UnovaCastaway]

What about a similar policy for other groups of people? (ableism, ageism, etc.)

 

[Jamesredsilver]

To definitively take the stance that homosexuality is acceptable and that anyone who doesn't think so is wrong or evil and then say that it is in pursuit of "equality" is naive, especially in representing a staff that may not unanimously agree. It is also incorrect to believe that the fight to enforce the acceptance of homosexuality hasn't involved harrassment, assault, theft, and other gross evils. It's a shame it has to be like this.

 

[Aestivate]

What about a similar policy for other groups of people? (ableism, ageism, etc.)

This new policy takes all of this into account. Ableism and sexism and racism and similar 'ism's are not to be tolerated and will be treated the same way.

5. Other forms of discrimination
Other forms of hatred, such as racism, and sexism, will generally be given the same treatment as above, although some topics may be altogether banned (instead of tolerated) in Nicoleta's Bus; if they are, the rules of the Bus will say so.

 

[Garren]

It is also incorrect to believe that the fight to enforce the acceptance of homosexuality hasn't involved harrassment, assault, theft, and other gross evils

I really can't think of any notable "gross evils" that were done in the name of gay rights.

 

[Deleted member 60696]

To definitively take the stance that homosexuality is acceptable and that anyone who doesn't think so is wrong or evil and then say that it is in pursuit of "equality" is naive, especially in representing a staff that may not unanimously agree. It is also incorrect to believe that the fight to enforce the acceptance of homosexuality hasn't involved harrassment, assault, theft, and other gross evils. It's a shame it has to be like this.

Well being unaccepting of homosexuality is the same as racism. Both are bigotries, and bigotry wont be tolerated. Plus while there has been some harassment in the name of gay rights, it doesn't even come close to the amount of harassment, assault, theft, and more gross evils that are done against gay people. This policy is part of a great change.

 

[Fig]

What about a similar policy for other groups of people? (ableism, ageism, etc.)

Within reason.

AS with many other things, there are definitions of ableism and ageism we would not be comfortable accepting, because they would mean barring far too much (no, we will not be treating "derp" and "derping" and "derpy" as ableist terms). At the same time, that doesn't mean nothing will be done.

 

[Nuvakat]

Personally -- and without reading ANY of the other posts here -- I believe that everyone is free to do what they wish, but everyone is responsible to face the consequences of what they do. This goes for EVERYONE and EVERY SITUATION, including BOTH SIDES of this debate. I personally believe that homosexuality is immoral and unhealthy, but I also believe that the government should stay out of telling people who they can and can't marry. Everyone has their own life to live and their own consequences to experience. That is why I am againsts homosexuALITY, but not against homosexuALS. Everyone needs love, and it is only in God's hands to judge, NOT OUR OWN. I will allow others to live their lives, fighting only with prayer.

That is my stand. That is my creed.

---

To definitively take the stance that homosexuality is acceptable and that anyone who doesn't think so is wrong or evil and then say that it is in pursuit of "equality" is naive, especially in representing a staff that may not unanimously agree. It is also incorrect to believe that the fight to enforce the acceptance of homosexuality hasn't involved harrassment, assault, theft, and other gross evils. It's a shame it has to be like this.

Well being unaccepting of homosexuality is the same as racism. Both are bigotries, and bigotry wont be tolerated. Plus while there has been some harassment in the name of gay rights, it doesn't even come close to the amount of harassment, assault, theft, and more gross evils that are done against gay people. This policy is part of a great change.

I personally would like to know where you get your numbers from. Whenever I see an unqualified statistic, I want to know where it comes from.

 

[IvySnivy]

How about the American Psychological Association?

Lesbian, gay, and bisexual people in the United States encounter extensive prejudice, discrimination, and violence because of their sexual orientation. Intense prejudice against lesbians, gay men, and bisexual people was widespread throughout much of the 20th century. Public opinion studies over the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s routinely showed that, among large segments of the public, lesbian, gay, and bisexual people were the target of strongly held negative attitudes. More recently, public opinion has increasingly opposed sexual orientation discrimination, but expressions of hostility toward lesbians and gay men remain common in contemporary American society. Prejudice against bisexuals appears to exist at comparable levels. In fact, bisexual individuals may face discrimination from some lesbian and gay people as well as from heterosexual people.

Sexual orientation discrimination takes many forms. Severe antigay prejudice is reflected in the high rate of harassment and violence directed toward lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals in American society. Numerous surveys indicate that verbal harassment and abuse are nearly universal experiences among lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Also, discrimination against lesbian, gay, and bisexual people in employment and housing appears to remain widespread. The HIV/AIDS pandemic is another area in which prejudice and discrimination against lesbian, gay, and bisexual people have had negative effects. Early in the pandemic, the assumption that HIV/AIDS was a “gay disease” contributed to the delay in addressing the massive social upheaval that AIDS would generate. Gay and bisexual men have been disproportionately affected by this disease. The association of HIV/AIDS with gay and bisexual men and the inaccurate belief that some people held that all gay and bisexual men were infected served to further stigmatize lesbian, gay, and bisexual people.

Not a statistic per se. So, here are some actual statistics.

 

[Eevee]

Why is this on Bulbanews? I have no idea what prompted this, there's no explanation of context, and I can't imagine how it's relevant to anything but the forums.

 

[Nuvakat]

How about the American Psychiatric Association?

Lesbian, gay, and bisexual people in the United States encounter extensive prejudice, discrimination, and violence because of their sexual orientation. Intense prejudice against lesbians, gay men, and bisexual people was widespread throughout much of the 20th century. Public opinion studies over the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s routinely showed that, among large segments of the public, lesbian, gay, and bisexual people were the target of strongly held negative attitudes. More recently, public opinion has increasingly opposed sexual orientation discrimination, but expressions of hostility toward lesbians and gay men remain common in contemporary American society. Prejudice against bisexuals appears to exist at comparable levels. In fact, bisexual individuals may face discrimination from some lesbian and gay people as well as from heterosexual people.

Sexual orientation discrimination takes many forms. Severe antigay prejudice is reflected in the high rate of harassment and violence directed toward lesbian, gay, and bisexual individuals in American society. Numerous surveys indicate that verbal harassment and abuse are nearly universal experiences among lesbian, gay, and bisexual people. Also, discrimination against lesbian, gay, and bisexual people in employment and housing appears to remain widespread. The HIV/AIDS pandemic is another area in which prejudice and discrimination against lesbian, gay, and bisexual people have had negative effects. Early in the pandemic, the assumption that HIV/AIDS was a “gay disease” contributed to the delay in addressing the massive social upheaval that AIDS would generate. Gay and bisexual men have been disproportionately affected by this disease. The association of HIV/AIDS with gay and bisexual men and the inaccurate belief that some people held that all gay and bisexual men were infected served to further stigmatize lesbian, gay, and bisexual people.

Not a statistic per se. So, here are some actual statistics.

•The vast majority of victims of anti-lesbian/gay violence - possibly more than 80% - never report the incident, often due to fear of being "outed." --New York Gay and Lesbian Anti-Violence Project Annual Report, 1996.

How in the world would anyone know this if those incidents are never reported? The very fact that the source is able to make this claim with certainty indicates that their statistics MAY indeed be questionable. Note that I did not say that it PROVES that their statistics are questionable; for all we know each statistic was taken by an entirely different statician (or set of staticians).

Now that I have confirmed that one source at least provides these statistics, my next enquiry is this: how were the statistics discovered, anyway? (This question comes especially to mind concerning the paragraph above). A poll shows what people SAY happened; but if the truth about so many of the supposed statistics went unreported, then how do we know that the people who DID report abuse were indeed telling the truth? What if the people polled were only saying what they thought the interviewers wanted to hear? Once again, I am NOT saying that these reports are any percent false or true, as I have no way whatsoever of knowing that. I'm just pointing out that we have no way whatsoever of knowing that.

(In case you haven't guessed, I've recently been reading "How To Lie With Statistics," and it's more than rubbing off on me. The fact is that this world is a lot more complex than me think it is, which is why it is our job to closely examine EVERYTHING handed to us, including this very sentence. That is why I ask these questions; not to force you to see it my way, but just to give you a different perspective. I mean no harm to any man, woman, bisexual, or transgender -- I simply am interested in shedding light where it must be shed.)

 

[Garren]

That is why I am againsts homosexuALITY, but not against homosexuALS

The "love the sinner, hate the sin" mantra though can be just as bad however. You're basically saying you're against who a person is, but doubling back and saying "oh, but I'm not against you". That's like calling a black person "one of the good ones" or something along those lines. If you're against homosexuality, you're against homosexuals. I don't think you have any particular venom towards them, but it's still a hateful statement to make.

I personally would like to know where you get your numbers from. Whenever I see an unqualified statistic, I want to know where it comes from.

Well, for one, there's no state that bans heterosexual marriage.

 

[Fig]

Why is this on Bulbanews? I have no idea what prompted this, there's no explanation of context, and I can't imagine how it's relevant to anything but the forums.

Because Bulbanews and Bulbagarden Forums are part of the same site, and Bulbanews is in fact the place to post important forum news.

Unrelated:

ATTENTION

As a general reminder, this is NOT a Nicoleta's Bus thread. This means per the new policy, negative opinions of homosexuality don't belong in this thread.

 

[IvySnivy]

@Nuvakat:

I'm guessing that by "reporting" they mean making a formal complaint against a boss, student, etc. It is certainly possible to avoid making a complaint like that in a formal setting, and then report on a survey later that they have done so.

Of course, that is just my best guess, and I don't know the truth any more then you do. However, you did ask for statistics, but then later say:

A poll shows what people SAY happened; but if the truth about so many of the supposed statistics went unreported, then how do we know that the people who DID report abuse were indeed telling the truth? What if the people polled were only saying what they thought the interviewers wanted to hear?

If you believe this, then why ask for statistics in the first place? By that logic, we can never be sure of any statistic - after all, it could be falsified or people could be lying, and so forth. It really comes across like you're asking for evidence, and then immediately disbelieving it when it is presented. With that philosophy, there is no point in asking.

Anyways, I can speak from personal experience that the harassment towards myself and other GLBT people I know doesn't really compare to the "harassment" of any homophobic people I know. In fact I don't personally know any homophobe who has to endure much harassment at all. But hey - I could just be lying.

 

[$aturn¥oshi]

Why is this on Bulbanews? I have no idea what prompted this, there's no explanation of context, and I can't imagine how it's relevant to anything but the forums.

Because Bulbanews is allowed to post stories about anything Bulbagarden related, not just Pokémon news. Also, this is an editorial, not a news article.