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BULBAPEDIA: Suggestions, ideas, and problems

Merry Chrysalis
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Hey, so I have a possible description for Dhelmise to go on its page, and I was wondering how to get it noticed by someone who could edit it in. Any help or feedback appreciated!

Dhelmise is a Pokémon made up of an anchor and ship's wheel, held together by a mass of green seaweed. The anchor is a rusty brown color and mottled with blackish spots. The seaweed, which is Dhelmise's true body, partially envelops the thick, curved bottom of the anchor in a zigzag fashion, leaving empty spaces that look like sharp teeth. The seaweed continues upward to cover the anchor's entire thin shank, as well as what appears to be a round, nose-like hub on the top. The ship's wheel, colored lavender with yellow details, is affixed to the back of this hub by its center and able to rotate freely. The noticably damaged wheel features six spokes and four yellow handles, as well as two lavender stubs where the other handles should be. A simple compass, resembling an eye, is set into a disc-shaped component on one side of the wheel; mirroring this is an identical disc on the opposite side, though nothing is set into it.

Nvm, it got accepted.
 
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I don't have the Sun & Moon games, but I am curious as to whether it has the "Pokemon by body shape" search function, and if so, if anyone could compile a list for the new Pokemon, since the Pedia doesn't have these yet (and since X & Y had this function, I think Sun & Moon should too).

I was also wondering if the Alolan forms are classified as different colors as their regular counterparts, e.g. Alolan Vulpix being white or blue instead of brown. If they do, I would also appreciate a list of these.

That's all, thank you. :)


EDIT: I see this is being worked at now, thanks again!
 
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All the pointless banners at the top of the articles are severely limiting the usability of this site.
"...currently locked..."
"Check BNN..."
"...words, words, words..."
"Visit our brand new section for..."
"Visit our new Sun & Moon section..."

I'm just trying to build a spreadsheet of Pokemon I own, but thanks to all that pap, I need to scroll down every time I view a new species to see any relevant information. And as you know, there's a lot of species to check.
 
Always happy to help
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I like how with side stories such as Pokemon Mega Evolution I and so on they show the characters and voice actors, could that be added to the main series?
 
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I noticed that on the move pages, the types have been replaced with egg groups, which makes sense and is very useful for egg moves, but I think it might be nice to still retain the types since it is nice to see which types a certain move can be learned by. The more info that is easily available, the better, I'd say. So I'd like to request these type listings to return and show alongside the egg groups.
 
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I agree. Furthermore, the previous system was more intuitive and immediate. Before, you could see the possible parents right next to the Pokemon that could learn the egg move in particular. Right now, you have to scroll the whole page and look for a possible parent, which is much slower and annoying.
 
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I noticed that on the move pages, the types have been replaced with egg groups, which makes sense and is very useful for egg moves, but I think it might be nice to still retain the types since it is nice to see which types a certain move can be learned by. The more info that is easily available, the better, I'd say. So I'd like to request these type listings to return and show alongside the egg groups.
More info does not necessarily make for a clean presentation, though. I'm not entirely certain what the need is for knowing what types can learn a move, but I'm sorry, it's not always feasible to address every concern satisfactorily.
 
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Wanting to know what types can learn a certain move is trivial and unimportant. People look at the template to see what Pokemon learn the move not a specific type. And if one wants to know who gets STAB from a move, well, the template already indicates that with the italics, further making the types unneeded.
 
King of Planet Panthera
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Don't know if this is the right thread for it, but here goes.

I saw the recent updated Trivia description for Solgaleo, and I like to suggest a extra idea about Solgaleo also possibly being based on the Nemean Lion of Greek Mythology. Its namely so that according to Greek Mythology, the Nemean Lion became the Leo Sign zodiac constellation. The Leo Sign Zodiac is also known as a servant of the Sun, hence the part of Solgaleo of being the Sun's emissary. The Leo Zodiac also has connections to Alchemy, in which the process of "Digestion" is ruled by the Leo Constellation.

There's more support to this as well due to Solgaleo's Steel typing. Seeing as the Steel type is known for having the most resistances of any type thus far, it fits with the Nemean Lion's mythical body which was said to bounce off any kind of weaponry. This reflects well with the ability of "Full Metal Body", which deflects status lowering effects of moves. Furthermore we have the star-shaped mane of Solgaleo which could once again refer to the Leo Constellation, seeing as constellations are made of stars, and finally there's the part of the Nemean Lion whose invincible hide is said to be golden in color. This goes well with Solgaleo's Radiant Sun phase, which activates briefly when it performs its Signature Move - Sunsteel Strike, causing Solgaleo to turn bright pale golden.
 
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Something relatively minor (and not totally sure if I'm doing this right), but regarding the page for Dexio, his Slowking has Flamethrower (as I just witnessed), but out of the four moves listed on his article, Flamethrower is not one of them. If I'm missing something, please let me know.
 
been a while but i'm still battlin'
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alright, seriously, I know multiple people have already addressed this in the thread, but this decision about the egg groups on templates on move pages is absolutely ridiculous.

all you're doing is confusing people. this is not convenient at all. what percentage of the people looking at move pages is thinking "gee, I really wish I could see the egg groups instead of the types of a Pokémon!", compared to the percentage of people who are expecting to see a Pokémon's type on there instead? it's not always about what is STAB and what isn't. maybe I just wanna be able to look at a table at a glance and think "oh, mostly Water-types learn this, but there's a Grass-type that can too. neat.". if people want to think about egg groups, they're gonna scroll down to the breeding table. literally all this is doing is making people confused

graphic design is about legibility and conveying a point without people having to squint at the fine print. you are not thinking about the average user at all. think about someone who isn't a hardcore Pokémon player who isn't familiar with egg groups and is not really sure why something's being called Monster/Ground instead of Water/Ground or whatever. think about someone who isn't familiar with your system of bolding things that get STAB. do you really think people are gonna read fine print at the bottom of a long table when they're just trying to get some information while they're playing? no.

as someone who has designed templates for Bulbapedia that are still in use to this day and studied graphic design: what are you thinking.

also, real sneaky to implement this while the wiki was closed down so no one could argue about it. I haven't been paying 100% attention to recent changes (I don't much anymore) so if there was some discussion about it, that was a pretty narrow window for people to debate such a major change.
 
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alright, seriously, I know multiple people have already addressed this in the thread, but this decision about the egg groups on templates on move pages is absolutely ridiculous.

all you're doing is confusing people. this is not convenient at all. what percentage of the people looking at move pages is thinking "gee, I really wish I could see the egg groups instead of the types of a Pokémon!", compared to the percentage of people who are expecting to see a Pokémon's type on there instead? it's not always about what is STAB and what isn't. maybe I just wanna be able to look at a table at a glance and think "oh, mostly Water-types learn this, but there's a Grass-type that can too. neat.". if people want to think about egg groups, they're gonna scroll down to the breeding table. literally all this is doing is making people confused

graphic design is about legibility and conveying a point without people having to squint at the fine print. you are not thinking about the average user at all. think about someone who isn't a hardcore Pokémon player who isn't familiar with egg groups and is not really sure why something's being called Monster/Ground instead of Water/Ground or whatever. think about someone who isn't familiar with your system of bolding things that get STAB. do you really think people are gonna read fine print at the bottom of a long table when they're just trying to get some information while they're playing? no.

as someone who has designed templates for Bulbapedia that are still in use to this day and studied graphic design: what are you thinking.

also, real sneaky to implement this while the wiki was closed down so no one could argue about it. I haven't been paying 100% attention to recent changes (I don't much anymore) so if there was some discussion about it, that was a pretty narrow window for people to debate such a major change.
Before graphic design there's still design, period. Graphic design that makes a thing unwieldy (at best) is still bad design. (Also, you can't tell me that something like Skarmory here is good graphic design.) The wiki is very much not a program; we have far, far more restrictions on what we can do well. Compiling and/or verifying lists of breeding parents is VERY much one of the things we are not well suited for. This format cuts out that need entirely--at least on move pages. If you still want those lists of parents, you'll be glad to know they're still on Pokemon pages.

(Also, trivia like, "Ooh, hey, that Pokemon has an unusual type to learn this move" is a very bad reason to prefer types in the tables.)
 
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Before graphic design there's still design, period. Graphic design that makes a thing unwieldy (at best) is still bad design. (Also, you can't tell me that something like Skarmory here is good graphic design.) The wiki is very much not a program; we have far, far more restrictions on what we can do well. Compiling and/or verifying lists of breeding parents is VERY much one of the things we are not well suited for. This format cuts out that need entirely--at least on move pages. If you still want those lists of parents, you'll be glad to know they're still on Pokemon pages.

(Also, trivia like, "Ooh, hey, that Pokemon has an unusual type to learn this move" is a very bad reason to prefer types in the tables.)
I don't think you'll find many people that are upset about the breeding tables becoming more readable - I'm certainly not, and I'm pretty sure I cared about them much more than most. The problem is that you're focusing too much on the one thing this change improved (which isn't what people are even arguing against!), while brushing aside the complaints about the things this made worse.

You seem to be characterizing any complaints about the removal of types from the chart as though they're strictly about "trivia", when taking a step back would clearly indicate that it's short-sighted to do so. Types are one of the most important things about a Pokemon as far as gameplay is concerned. There have been many times where I've been teambuilding, felt that a poweful status or support move could fit on a team (think Trick Room, Light Screen, Icy Wind, Encore, etc.), and could quickly glance to see which Pokemon could learn the move that also meshed with the team's type synergy. For these kinds of moves, STAB is either irrelevant or not the reason why you'd use it in the first place (let's ignore that, like Tina said, only Bulbapedia power users would notice the bold text or likely recognize what it means at a glance). Sure, I've memorized the types of every Pokemon and can take a closer look at each individual one, even though this does take more time and effort, which is a enough for me to dislike the change. Most people, and I suspect most of our users, haven't bothered to do that, making something like this considerably more of a hassle. If I was in that situation, I honestly doubt I'd return to Bulbapedia.

This is less of an issue, but the fact that the Egg Group details are in the same location as where the types used to be could also cause some issues. People who have casually browsed a move page or two in the past could glance at the Floral Healing page and think Comfey is a Grass type because that's where the type went in the past, or think Shroomish is a Grass/Fairy type, Treecko is a Dragon type, etc. while browsing other pages. Yes, if they read the column headings they'll understand, but many won't. Most people couldn't care less about Egg Groups, and putting it in a place that once held something as important (to most people) as type is a pretty obvious error, even if there is an explanation as to why it's there.

By far the easiest solution would be to restore the type column to the way it once was, and move the Egg Group column elsewhere; probably after the Generation columns since it's only relevant if used in conjunction with the By Breeding table. The only possible concern then is whether or not it's too wide. Please say so if it is; abbreviating the Egg Groups like I saw someone else suggest seems like one possible solution.

(As a side note, I also greatly dislike that the colored backgrounds by generation were removed with this change. Before it was very easy to tell at a glance if eligibility changed between generations, and the tables were easy to look at to boot. Everything just being black on solid white now makes it not only worse to look at, but harder to read quickly. To be clear, I don't care about splitting the columns if there was a mid-generation change like the other person who mentioned this did.)

There have already been several complaints on this board about this change, as well as at least one that I've seen on a random talk page. Very few people bother to go to the effort to write or ask about anything here compared to how many people use Bulbapedia, especially if they have to make an account to do so. If they get confused or annoyed, they're much more likely to just not return or use a different site instead.
 
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You seem to be characterizing any complaints about the removal of types from the chart as though they're strictly about "trivia", when taking a step back would clearly indicate that it's short-sighted to do so.
For what it's worth, I have only used the word "trivia" (or something like that) in the response you just quoted.

I haven't meant to completely dismiss complaints, but up to now, I also really haven't heard any halfway decent argument about a compelling need for types. At worst, I was dismissing those weak arguments.

In that respect, it's nice to hear something thought out from someone feeling a concrete effect.

Types are one of the most important things about a Pokemon as far as gameplay is concerned. There have been many times where I've been teambuilding, felt that a poweful status or support move could fit on a team (think Trick Room, Light Screen, Icy Wind, Encore, etc.), and could quickly glance to see which Pokemon could learn the move that also meshed with the team's type synergy. For these kinds of moves, STAB is either irrelevant or not the reason why you'd use it in the first place (let's ignore that, like Tina said, only Bulbapedia power users would notice the bold text or likely recognize what it means at a glance). Sure, I've memorized the types of every Pokemon and can take a closer look at each individual one, even though this does take more time and effort, which is a enough for me to dislike the change. Most people, and I suspect most of our users, haven't bothered to do that, making something like this considerably more of a hassle. If I was in that situation, I honestly doubt I'd return to Bulbapedia.
This sounds like a reasonable use case to me, and I think it would be good if we could address it. However, previously, staff has not really liked any of the possible solutions we've thought of or heard (like returning to types instead of Egg Groups, or just re-adding types so both Egg Groups and types are in the table). But that also wasn't in the context of any specific or halfway compelling issue like this. I will say, we/I can try to keep it in mind, and try to give a think to the suggestion you made later. (Thanks for the solid feedback!)

This is less of an issue, but the fact that the Egg Group details are in the same location as where the types used to be could also cause some issues. People who have casually browsed a move page or two in the past could glance at the Floral Healing page and think Comfey is a Grass type because that's where the type went in the past, or think Shroomish is a Grass/Fairy type, Treecko is a Dragon type, etc. while browsing other pages. Yes, if they read the column headings they'll understand, but many won't. Most people couldn't care less about Egg Groups, and putting it in a place that once held something as important (to most people) as type is a pretty obvious error, even if there is an explanation as to why it's there.
Even if some Egg Groups might be readable as a type, I think most pages will probably have an Egg Group that can't be mistaken for a "type" as well.

It should also be solved once you realize your mistake.

(As a side note, I also greatly dislike that the colored backgrounds by generation were removed with this change. Before it was very easy to tell at a glance if eligibility changed between generations, and the tables were easy to look at to boot. Everything just being black on solid white now makes it not only worse to look at, but harder to read quickly. To be clear, I don't care about splitting the columns if there was a mid-generation change like the other person who mentioned this did.)
The background colors are another, relatively separate issue that the template update actually addressed. That particular formatting put a relatively large burden on pages. It was the reason a few pages such as Double-Edge had to be split in order to even be edited/saved. I.e., the more the games kept going forward, that style would not at all be sustainable. As far as I know, reinstituting anything like that would require some very, very clever template wizardry, if it's even satisfactorily possible at all.

There have already been several complaints on this board about this change, as well as at least one that I've seen on a random talk page. Very few people bother to go to the effort to write or ask about anything here compared to how many people use Bulbapedia, especially if they have to make an account to do so. If they get confused or annoyed, they're much more likely to just not return or use a different site instead.
You're talking about the silent majority, but as tempting as it may be, you can't really put words in their mouth. By the very nature of that moniker, it's impossible to say with any accuracy how many of them are truly put out by this change.

A number of users have also been updating move pages without any special comment...apparently content with them.
 
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You seem to be characterizing any complaints about the removal of types from the chart as though they're strictly about "trivia", when taking a step back would clearly indicate that it's short-sighted to do so. Types are one of the most important things about a Pokemon as far as gameplay is concerned. There have been many times where I've been teambuilding, felt that a poweful status or support move could fit on a team (think Trick Room, Light Screen, Icy Wind, Encore, etc.), and could quickly glance to see which Pokemon could learn the move that also meshed with the team's type synergy. For these kinds of moves, STAB is either irrelevant or not the reason why you'd use it in the first place (let's ignore that, like Tina said, only Bulbapedia power users would notice the bold text or likely recognize what it means at a glance). Sure, I've memorized the types of every Pokemon and can take a closer look at each individual one, even though this does take more time and effort, which is a enough for me to dislike the change. Most people, and I suspect most of our users, haven't bothered to do that, making something like this considerably more of a hassle. If I was in that situation, I honestly doubt I'd return to Bulbapedia.
This was precisely why I found the type listings to be important; it's a key factor for teams that want to have as much type variety as possible, while factoring in certain moves.

Listing the parents a Pokemon could have in order to learn certain egg moves was also a really nice indicator to have. I personally have no issues with looking up shared egg groups, and can see if it requires chainbreeding or not, but for many others this could be a complicated issue.

As for solutions, I do like Pumpkin's idea of listing the egg groups after the generation columns, since I agree putting them right next to the types would become a convoluted mess. I am sure there's many other ways to fix this. I think we can all agree that Bulbapedia can take pride in its excellent layouts and user-friendly nature, so I don't think this isn't something that can be taken care of while remaining that way as well.

Anyways, I'm glad this is being considered now.
 
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Just wanted to note another problem with only listing the egg group and not the Pokemon you can breed the move from: I wanted to see what parents you can breed Fake Out onto Smoochum from.

Smoochum is in the Undiscovered egg group. I now have to go to Jynx's page to find its egg group and then use that info to figure out what parents I can use.
 
Merry Chrysalis
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Yeah, I vote to put the Pokémon's types back on the move pages. I was just looking at the page for the move Sandstorm today to see what Pokémon can learn it that are and aren't immune to its effects, and it was pretty annoying to not see the Pokémon's types clearly listed.
 
memes
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I think the definition for move variations should be changed to be less arbitrary. In the current definition Solar Beam and Solar Blade are not able to be listed as move variations even though solar blade is the most obvious move variation to have been made since the elemental punches. Similar name, similar base power, similar animation and exact same mechanics as solar beam. A definition of move variations that won't acknowledge that solar blade was created as a physical variant of solarbeam is a bad one.

I also think the status move section on this page is very flawed, equating toxic and leech seed to each other as move variations (this is by far the biggest reach in the entire article) and equating sleep powder as a variation of lovely kiss and sweet kiss when it's pretty obviously a variation of poisonpowder and stun spore. The rules on what can be listed as a move variation in this article and what can't are so arbitrary that the page rejects some actual move variations in favour of complete bullshit ones.
 
I dare you to read this title
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In the forum's main page, I noticed that the link in Pokemon Ultra RPG's description leads to an error message, saying that the thread cannot be found.
 
Phantom Thief
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In the forum's main page, I noticed that the link in Pokemon Ultra RPG's description leads to an error message, saying that the thread cannot be found.
This thread is for suggestions, ideas, and problems pertaining to Bulbapedia, not the forums.
 
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