Summarizing the opinions on the Poison type against the Water type

Should the Poison type become super-effective against the Water type in the next gen?

  • Yes

    Votes: 35 58.3%
  • No

    Votes: 25 41.7%

  • Total voters
    60
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Why should Poison be strong against Water? While it'd definitely be realistic and logical, when have Nintendo games had the need to be realistic and logical anyway?.
Because a lot of the type match-ups are realistic and logical.

And because Poison is a weak type and Water is very strong, balancing both wouldn't hurt.
It still wouldn't achieve anything. Poison's offensive power is awful, so giving it another advantage won't help at all, and it definitely won't balance anything.
I think it certainly would. We're not adding a weakness to whatever type, we're adding it to the most common type in the game. This would make Poison types useful, at least a little bit, for once. Also, it would nerf Water a bit, because it's overpowered.
 
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|: But that would make the Poison type even worst than it already is... It would be weak against the most common type in the game!!
I never said it was a change that I'd want to see, I'm just saying that would make more sense than the opposite, Poison SEing Water. What I meant was that if some change were to happen, I'd rather see Water>Poison because just having Poison>Water is stupid.

There is no argument that really can be used for Poison SEing Water that can't be extended into other types (like Normal) or can't be used to make Fire the most OP thing ever.
 
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I think it certainly would. We're not adding a weakness to whatever type, we're adding it to the most common type in the game. This would make Poison types useful, at least a little bit, for once. Also, it would nerf Water a bit, because it's overpowered.
But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.
 
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But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.
Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...
 
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But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.
Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...
But what I'm saying is that Poison has nothing in the way of offense, and all of the moves that you said aren't offensive either.
 
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But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.
Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...
But what I'm saying is that Poison has nothing in the way of offense, and all of the moves that you said aren't offensive either.
And this is the exact reason why we think that adding the advantage against Water is a good option. To improve the type offensively. Poison Jab, Sludge Bomb and Gunk Shot are rarely seen taking advantage of STAB because there's only one type weak to it and it's commonly paired with Poison itself, neutralizing its effect. Plus, Toxic is not exclusive to Poison-types, so...
 
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And this is the exact reason why we think that adding the advantage against Water is a good option. To improve the type offensively. Poison Jab, Sludge Bomb and Gunk Shot are rarely seen taking advantage of STAB because there's only one type weak to it and it's commonly paired with Poison itself, neutralizing its effect. Plus, Toxic is not exclusive to Poison-types, so...
Well I suppose Poison Jab and Sludge Bomb are decent moves, but Gunk Shot has just too low accuracy. Really any accuracy lower than 80 is too risky for me.

But anyway, what I'm saying is that even if Poison does get an advantage over Water, it might not even help it that much. Arguably the strongest type, Steel, is immune to it, and making Water to it might not even change much anyway. But if Poison was strong against Dragon instead, it would make it strong against the second strongest type, and that would probably help it out more than an advantage to Water instead.
 
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But if Poison is already weak offensively anyway, what's the point of giving it another advantage. As a comparison, look at the Bug type. Bug's strong against three types - Dark, Grass, and Psychic. But is it strong enough to use any of those advantages? Nope. Bug's strong against one of the best types in the game, but that didn't help it in Gen I, and it still doesn't help it now. But at least Bug has some decent moves - Megahorn, U-turn and X-Scissor. All Poison has is Toxic.
Possibly because Leech Life do 20 base damage, and Butterfree, Scyther & Pinsir didn't have any bug moves. Gunk Shot = Megahorn, Poison Jab = X-Scissor, the only reason you don't see them is because poison stab is far from reliable. The only other type with a U-Turn is electric, but poison's got plenty of utility in Toxic Spikes, Clear Smog, Coil, and as you said; Toxic, if that move alone was limited to poison types you'd see some more of them...
How exactly does limiting toxic to poison types make any difference?
 
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The only Pokemoon I can see getting better because of this is Toxicroak who would be a little less awful against opposing rain teams.
 
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The only Pokemoon I can see getting better because of this is Toxicroak who would be a little less awful against opposing rain teams.
That's only because of his Fighting typing, correct? Poison types deserved better than that and can't rely on having Water, Fighting, Steel, Dragon, or Ground as a secondary type to do better in battle forever. Just look at that lava lamp fakemon Smogon created for example.
 
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I think Poison should be supereffective against Fighting, under the idea that poison ruins vigor and will to fight. But mostly because a lot of my favorites are poison types.
 
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No, the types have stayed the same for 5 generations already, no need to change them.

If you want to give Poison types another type advantage, just make a new type, that's pretty much why Dark and Steel types were introduced in Gen 2 to add some more balance due to Psychic types being overpowered in Gen 1, that's the best way to do this.
 
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No, the types have stayed the same for 5 generations already, no need to change them.
Since they were changed in Generation 2, they have stayed the same for only 3 generations.
And there is no problem in changing them now, if it is for the sake of a better gameplay and metagame.

There is no need for creating a new type if you can fix what is wrong with the current ones.
 
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No, the types have stayed the same for 5 generations already, no need to change them.

If you want to give Poison types another type advantage, just make a new type, that's pretty much why Dark and Steel types were introduced in Gen 2 to add some more balance due to Psychic types being overpowered in Gen 1, that's the best way to do this.
Can you think of a new type that Poison would be SE against? And please don't say Light type, because it's been beaten to death by everybody. Psychic types overpowered because of the majority of Kanto's Pokemon being Posion and the severe lack of strong Bug and Ghost type Pokemon/moves. They could've easily have Bug types resist Psychic type rather than Steel, whose resistance to Psychic makes no sense due to twisted spoons.

Someone mentioned that Poison types should be SE against Fighting, and while that's also a good idea, we're more focused on Water types because it's more overpowered than Fighting.
 
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Following that logic, almost every type should be super effective or regularly effective as it isn't that hard to bend spoons if you are really trying to. Thicker steel isn't bent as easily, and when metals are used in construction, they are considerably denser than a spoon.
 
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The solute (poison) being dropped into the solvent (water) results in a Super Effectivity, as it causes a reaction.

Meanwhile, dilution consists in there being more amount of solvent than what the solute is able to effect, so it is a Neutrality. You don't "dissolve the poison with the water", it simply reacts with that little water, then as more water is added it can dissolve past its saturation point, and then with even more water is washed away.

With natural water, anyways.


But then again, it's not like physics or chemistry matter in pokémon. Specially with how loose the "generic poison" is.
 
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There's already a handful disputable type anomalies (psychic vs steel, bug vs ghost etc), but none that's strikingly opposite to reality as this would be (I expect more posts lecturing everybody about this in an angry fashion). I'd still support it, though, seeing as a strong poison stab would be interesting, if not in place.
I always wondered about psychic v. steel. The whole bending the metal spoon with telekenisis thing should at least make psychic normally affect steel. But I guess the whole concept of a steel Pokemon is that the metal is too strong to bend.
I personally have always thought that electric should be super effective against psychic because of the possibility of electromagnetic forces manipulating brainwaves. It would have certainly balanced out the Gen 1 games :p
If you really want to give the poison type more power while having type alignments make sense, make it super effective against fighting. A fighter has to be in peak physical condition to do his best, right? Poisoning would weaken their bodies so that they're less effective (unless you want to argue it's like the psychic/steel thing and the fighting Pokemon are in too good a shape to be overly affected by poison).
I generally don't like poison-type Pokemon (except for some of the paired ones like Beedrill, Crobat, etc). I don't think many people do. I have an affinity for Gulpin/Swalot. Sad those aren't in any of the newer games until it's too late to add them to your main team...the one I had in Emerald was a BA :(
 
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Or... let's make Poison super-effective against BOTH Water and Fighting e__e
 
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But the Tentacool family is BOTH water and Poison... what will happen to them?
 
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