SUPER POLL! Which is, in your opinion, the best Pokemon game ever?

[planet Jane]

I am of the perhaps unpopular(?) opinion that the games have consistently gotten better. X/Y are my favorites.

Mind you I don't really think that there has ever been a bad core Pokemon game. I've not played enough of the spinoffs to say that with confidence about them.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I think BW2 were the best. HGSS was next, then Platinum, Emerald, XY, BW, DP, ORAS, FRLG, RS, GSC and in last place RGBY.

 

[Juliko]

I think Black and White were the best, so I voted for them. They were truly revolutionary games in that the creators put much more effort into the story, characters, and overall gameplay, more than any other game so far. Sure, it has its problems, but its premise and overall aesop resonate with me unlike any other. I also like ORAS and HGSS right behind it, as they're also very good in their own right. But BW and the sequels just hit all the right notes for me. Plus, BW introduced me to my number one favorite Pokemon of all time.

 

[Guzma]

BW, easy. I understand BW2 had better gameplay because of the larger variety of Pokemon, but BW beats every other game in one aspect: story. BW were the first games that actually cared about having a decent story. The villain team was more active than Team Rocket but didn't have a moronic plan the way pre-remake Magma, pre-remake Aqua and Galactic did. They wanted to take over, not bring about THE END OF THE WORLD or A NEW UNIVERSE! Ghetsis's plan was much more devious than any others - no stealing honey to gather Pokemon here. He raised a poor kid as his puppet and used him to summon a powerful Pokemon. He preyed upon the emotions and consciences of others to try and make them release their Pokemon so they'd be defenseless when he took over. He's the first Magnificent Bastard in the franchise, someone who's actually able to manipulate people instead of taking the direct force route. He's also a monster - up until BW, the only truly irredeemable characters were in the anime (Vicious, J, Kodai) and spin-offs (Evice, PMD Darkrai). Ghetsis managed to bring horrific parental abuse into an E-rated game.

N, on the other hand, is downright tragic, and you can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy. And yet, after all the horrible things Ghetsis did, he still offers him a chance at redemption.

Oh, and most of the new Pokemon kicked ass and reusable TMs are amazinf. BW was what turned me from a person who happened to like Pokemon into a dedicated fan. BW2, XY and ORAS managed to top it gameplay-wise, though.

Also, as much praise as it gets, I couldn't get into HGSS, since I bought it after BW. I couldn't go back to one-use TMs.

 

[Esserise]

I would have voted for BW, had it not been for a couple of points:

1. The story is easily their best, and while I completely love it, I can't get bring myself to credit it too much since the story doesn't really matter in Pokémon. It's great to see them go the extra mile, but B2W2 have so many more gameplay features, which in my mind are more important from a game design perspective, and still maintain at least a serviceable story quality.

2. The restriction of using only Gen V Pokémon until after the League. While *I* loved it and thought it was a brillitant decision, I was trying to look at it a little more objectively - and clearly it was not considered to be a popular move by the wider fandom. So on that count, it feels more like a decision that I'm in the minority of liking. And even on a personal level, it's something that I liked as a change of pace, but my belief is that in most situations, they should make use of the Pokémon that already exist, including them alongside any new ones. This is something that I really liked about XY, even though I thought that their emphasis was a little too slanted in favor of the old.

But BW are nevertheless fantastic games in my opinion.

 

[Lyrebird]

N, on the other hand, is downright tragic, and you can't help but feel sorry for the poor guy. And yet, after all the horrible things Ghetsis did, he still offers him a chance at redemption.

I didn't. He was creepy beyond all that is creepy.

 

[Icy Wind]

I can't get bring myself to credit it too much since the story doesn't really matter in Pokémon. It's great to see them go the extra mile, but B2W2 have so many more gameplay features, which in my mind are more important from a game design perspective, and still maintain at least a serviceable story quality.

In my experience, it's easier to find a game that has good gameplay and mechanics or a franchise that builds upon it, than to find one with a good storyline. Storylines are immune to the passing of time, but are hard to create, and harder to maintain as a standard across future releases, whereas gameplay can be fine-tuned to near-perfection through trial and error, and experience with past releases.

Also, why exactly does the storyline ''doesn't matter'' in Pokemon? Just because Pokemon isn't your typical story-focused jrpg doesn't mean that it can't have a well written narrative.

but my belief is that in most situations, they should make use of the Pokémon that already exist, including them alongside any new ones

The reason why there was only new mons in BW was because Masuda wanted BW to be a new experience to players, he believed that the games would be too similiar to gen 4 if they didn't have the new pokemon only restriction.

 

[Esserise]

Also, why exactly does the storyline ''doesn't matter'' in Pokemon? Just because Pokemon isn't your typical story focused jrpg doesn't mean that it can't have a well written narrative.

I'm not saying it can't have a well-written storyline - I in fact love it when it does - but it's nonessential. Pokémon simply doesn't need a thoroughly developed storyline in order to produce a functional, well-designed, successful game (HGSS would be a good example). High story quality is only a bonus, because the game works with or without it. A game with a weak storyline can still have a lot of good content to keep it engaging. So, while BW have a better storyline than B2W2, the sequels have both a larger array of in-depth features and a more widely palatable selection of Pokémon, which are things that enrich the gameplay and affect how you experience it. The story's impact in that regard is minimal, because everybody experiences the same story, and once you *have* experienced it, that's it. While you could replay it, it would still be the same story you played before. Whereas, if we're talking replays, side features and Pokémon selection are what help provide you with a different experience each time.

 

[Icy Wind]

HGSS would be a good example

Considering my dislike towards gen 2 for it's poor level pacing, i don't think HGSS is a ''good'' example for a a ''functinal and well designed'' game.

High story quality is only a bonus

I'm not so sure about that...
I've seen a lot of people(including myself) here and on other sites that prefer BW over BW2 for it's better plotline. Game play is of course an important aspect, but to some people a good storyline is an important aspect too.

What you're saying is completely subjective. Some people value storylines more than game play mechanics, and vice-versa. Just because you personally think a good storyline is only a ''bonus'' doesn't mean that everybody does.

 

[Esserise]

Considering my dislike towards gen 2 for it's poor level pacing, i don't think HGSS is a ''good'' example for a a ''functinal and well designed'' game.

Johto's level curve is bad, but not game-breakingly awful. Getting through the game at a fair pace is not an unreasonable task. Could it stand to be fine-tuned? Yes. But it is completely functional. Just because something isn't firing on all cylinders doesn't mean it can't still perform its task successfully. And it nevertheless managed to fix one of the major flaws of the originals, which was the evisceration of Kanto. HGSS Kanto is more fully realized and therefore more worthwhile to explore, which is a major strength of the games in terms of content and gameplay value.

I'm not so sure about that...
I've seen a lot of people(including myself) here and on other sites that prefer BW over BW2 for it's better plotline. Game play is of course an important aspect, but to some people a good storyline is an important aspect too.

What you're saying is completely subjective. Some people value storylines more than game play mechanics, and vice-versa. Just because you personally think a good storyline is only a ''bonus'' doesn't mean that everybody does.

I'm not saying that there isn't anybody who evaluates the storyline to be of more importance than the gameplay. But hypothetically, you could excise the storyline from Black and White, and do you know what you would have? Basically Red and Blue, except with some more features and a better post-game. Which sounds... like an eminently decent Pokémon game.

If story mattered at all in Pokémon, then we wouldn't have XY saying that Mega Evolution existed only in Kalos (and only recently, at that, except until two chapters later when they say that it dates back centuries), only to have the very next games roll around and reveal that it has actually been a part of Hoenn's history for millennia, and is being used by more Trainers in Hoenn than we saw using it in Kalos (including a world-famous celebrity), and with major discoveries being made about it, all only a few years before XY took place. But they can actually do this with practically no consequences for the actual games, because it doesn't actually matter if the games retcon themselves from one to the next. Such veterans are they of the practice that we didn't even need Zinnia to utter the words "alternative universe" for people to already be thinking of the games in those terms. I mean, just look at third versions - they add significantly to the gameplay, but as far as storyline goes, all they do is brazenly kick their predecessors out of continuity and reposition their central creatures as the supporting cast for a new one.

This is a franchise whose focus on story development is so low-effort that they have recycled the same skeletal structure of the same perfunctory plot in literally all but one game. A franchise whose most revolutionary idea for a storyline, in fourteen years, was basically to actually have one. Add four years onto that and what do we have to show for it? A reversion to the old formula in exchange for a pair of (admittedly, pretty good) post-game episodes that take about an hour or two to complete. Now, I'll give them some credit - ORAS did spruce up the characters in their main story, such that they were no longer completely bland and lacking in sensible motive. So it's a decent story there - but by virtue of ORAS being remakes, it's still one that exists within the same dead-horse framework of every game that's not Black and White.

But consider, that this hasn't really affected the games' success at all.

 

[DoctorWhy]

I'd say probably GSC/HGSS is the best overall, though my personal favorite is probably RSE/ORAS.

 

[Felly]

GSC for me. It was early enough that the series was still good. It wasn't perfect, but it was good. There weren't too many Pokemon. Everything felt just right.

I like RBY as well, but those hold a special place in my heart as my first games. I'd rank gen 4 up under RBY too, just because it gave me characters and Pokemon I liked.

 

[Gaga]

BW/BW2

 

[Icy Wind]

Johto's level curve is bad, but not game-breakingly awful. Getting through the game at a fair pace is not an unreasonable task. Could it stand to be fine-tuned? Yes. But it is completely functional. Just because something isn't firing on all cylinders doesn't mean it can't still perform its task successfully.

Johto's level curve wasn't game-breaking awful? You have got to be kidding me.
By the time I reached the eight gym on my soulsilver, the ONLY mons of my 6 member team I had above level 30 were my togetic and typhlosion and the rest(a pidgeotto, marill, butterfree and flaafy) were all in their 10s or 20s. I almost wanted to buy action replay code because I didn't have the patience to level them up.
However, that didn't happen in any other main series game.

And the poor level pacing(and poor storyline) isn't even the only problem I have with hgss. The pokemon ''following behind you'' crap thing is useless and serve no purpose, the touchscreen is painfully sloooooow to use, the customizable safari zone was a complete waste of time, and the pokemon selection is subpar at best unless you're a genwunner.

And it nevertheless managed to fix one of the major flaws of the originals, which was the evisceration of Kanto. HGSS Kanto is more fully realized and therefore more worthwhile to explore, which is a major strength of the games in terms of content and gameplay value.

HGSS ''fixed'' Kanto? Hardly.
Even if HGSS restored some of Kanto's areas, Kanto was still a ghost town by virtually having nearly all of it's trainers in their 30s and wild pokemon between level 2-20 while you're probably in your 40s or 50 at that point in the game. Oh, and let's not forget that they didn't fix the huge gap in levels between the last Kanto gym and Red.
That reeks of poor game design my friend.

Which sounds... like an eminently decent Pokémon game.

To you. But to others, a good storyline is an important aspect.

If story mattered at all in Pokémon

And if storylines didn't matter at all in pokemon then please explain me this:
Iwata Asks
Iwata
Lastly, I'd like to ask each of you to say something to the fans who are looking forward to the games. Masuda-san, would you please go first?

Masuda
Sure. When it comes to the scenarios, I came up with some of them myself, but it was Toshinobu Matsumiya who pulled them all together.

Ishihara
Matsumiya-san has been in charge of scenario and character for the Pokémon games ever since Gold and Silver.

Masuda
This time, I told him he was a genius! (laughs)

Iwata
A genius? What made you think that?

Masuda
"He skillfully leads the players along, increasing their level of excitement, and thoroughly getting his message across, while also deftly building up events and establishing Gym Leaders and the characters of Team Plasma.

I think the scenarios are different than we've seen before, so I can't wait to hear what players have to say when they start playing without any prior information and eventually reach the end."

Would you look at that? Gane freak themselves is saying that they put a lot of effort on BW's plotline on purpose. So, are plotline really "irrelevelant" in Pokemon? Right......

Just because ORAS contradicted XY by saying that mega evolution isn't a kalos thing only doesn't mean that game freak doesn't care about storylines.

I mean, just look at third versions - they add significantly to the gameplay, but as far as storyline goes, all they do is brazenly kick their predecessors out of continuity andreposition their central creatures as the supporting cast for a new one.

Third versions don't "kick" their predecessors out of coutinuity. Third versions expand on what the original pair did in terms of lore and plotline. Remember how Rayquaza and co had basically no real importance on RS ect...? Well with third versions, game freak has expanded on what they were and gave them actual lore. That's not "kicking", that's expanding.

that they have recycled the same skeletal structure

....and? That doesn't stop people from asking a better plotline or critisizing a bad one like XY.

But consider, that this hasn't really affected the games' success at all.

No one was arguing on whether or not a bad storyline has affected the games' "success". The point is, just because you think a good storyline is only a "bonus" doesn't mean that everybody does.

 

[Esserise]

Johto's level curve wasn't game-breaking awful? You have got to be kidding me.
By the time I reached the eight gym on my soulsilver, the ONLY mons of my 6 member team I had above level 30 were my togetic and typhlosion and the rest(a pidgeotto, marill, butterfree and flaafy) were all in their 10s or 20s. I almost wanted to buy action replay code because I didn't have the patience to level them up.
However, that didn't happen in any other main series game.

Well, that's some lovely anecdotal evidence.

And the poor level pacing(and poor storyline) isn't even the only problem I have with hgss. The pokemon ''following behind you'' crap thing is useless and serve no purpose, the touchscreen is painfully sloooooow to use, the customizable safari zone was a complete waste of time, and the pokemon selection is subpar at best unless you're a genwunner.

You keep telling me your own individual problems with the game. I'm talking about the game in the eyes of the whole fandom, judging "best" in terms of widespread success, and what is commonly seen as being a good feature that worked. And both the Walking Pokémon feature and the touchscreen design were very big hits with the fans. I don't know how well-received the Safari Zone was, though I would imagine it's pretty unlikely that everybody saw it as "a complete waste of time."

HGSS ''fixed'' Kanto? Hardly.
Even if HGSS restored some of Kanto's areas, Kanto was still a ghost town by virtually having nearly all of it's trainers in their 30s and wild pokemon between level 2-20 while you're probably in your 40s or 50 at that point in the game. Oh, and let's not forget that they didn't fix the huge gap in levels between the last Kanto gym and Red.
That reeks of poor game design my friend.

Didn't say they fixed it perfectly. But they certainly improved it - primarily by restoring most of the old dungeons, thereby giving players more to do. Again, something needn't be firing on all cylinders in order to function, and you can tell that the fans still responded very positively to it.

And if storylines didn't matter at all in pokemon then please explain me this:

Would you look at that? Gane freak themselves is saying that they put a lot of effort on BW's plotline on purpose. So, are plotline really "irrelevelant" in Pokemon? Right......

So... they put effort into the storyline of the only game that actually has one that isn't their usual mass-produced chassis? Well I never would have thought.

It's certainly possible to put effort into something that doesn't matter in the long run. Grab some watercolors, go outside, and paint the sky. Is your painting likely to ever do anything of significant function? Probably not. But hey, as long as you had fun making it.

Third versions don't "kick" their predecessors out of coutinuity. Third versions expand on what the original pair did in terms of lore and plotline. Remember how Rayquaza and co had basically no real importance on RS ect...? Well with third versions, game freak has expanded on what they were and gave them actual lore. That's not "kicking", that's expanding.

Except, ultimately, it's the same thing, because it renders whatever storyline the previous versions had irrelevant. Nobody cares about the story of Diamond and Pearl once Platinum rolls around, because Platinum is a little more fleshed out - after that, there's just not much point in looking at DP's story. Same goes for RSE. Emerald expands on RS, but in the process, renders RS obsolete.

....and? That doesn't stop people from asking a better plotline or critisizing a bad one like XY.

I didn't say that it did.

No one was arguing on whether or not a bad storyline has affected the games' "success".

Except that totally was what I was arguing? If you don't understand the foundation of this argument, then why are we even having it?

> Myself: Pokémon simply doesn't need a thoroughly developed storyline in order to produce a functional, well-designed, successful game

Which is entirely true. There are a long line of successful Pokémon games with minimal or low-effort storylines. There's approximately one with an above-average one.

All you seem to have done is harp on my use of HGSS as an example (and regardless of whether you personally like them or not - which isn't the point of this thread, as laid out in the OP - you cannot deny that HGSS are widely-liked and were successful), and taken my claim that "the story doesn't matter" as some defamatory remark toward the games, which it isn't - it's just a statement of function. And the games have thus far survived quite well without considerable effort being put into the storyline, bar one instance. For them to have a decent story is a purely artistic endeavor - it is demonstrably not something that they actually need to do in order to make a successful game that works. Do some people like it when they put some effort into the story? Yes. I am one of them. But it is very clearly nonessential as it concerns the games' overall performance.

 

[~ Blazing White Yang]

BW2. It effectively carried the role and quality of a 3rd Edition game, while doing even more to justify a second purchase. Seeing the aftermath of the first game's adventure was very rewarding to me, and all of the expansions to the Region [as well its new content] made for an incredibly rich single player experience.

I'm not a fan of game's plot, but I would say it at least manages to maintain a similar quality of characterization to the first one. I for one loved seeing the rift between Ghetsis' faction of Team Plasma and the now repentant group who earnestly believed in what N was trying to say. Having Cheren and Bianca grown into their workplaces closed them out very well, better than any other Rivals to date. The little flashbacks that you get for connecting the first and second games added even more depth to the cast, even if slightly. Like when you learn why the Striaton Gym got shut down, or when Drayden speaks to Iris about his childhood, or the reason why Brycen officially retires from the League to pursue film, etc.

 

[Cometstarlight]

I'm in the minority, but I really liked Platinum version. Fixed a lot of things from D/P and there's a LOT of post game content that was able to hold my attention. I don't know why, but...I just can't do it with W2. I've tried several times to go through the entire post game, but I just lose interest in it and it gets old for me real fast. I don't know if it's the generation or the setting or what, but W2 has just never sat well with me like Platinum has.

 

[Jaguarfire]

My list would be:

1. Platinum
2. HeartGold and SoulSilver
3. Black and White
4. Black 2 and White 2
5. Emerald
6. FireRed and Leaf Green
7. X and Y
8. Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire
9. Yellow
10. Diamond and Pearl

I haven't played through any of the other games so I don't feel like it would be right for me to judge them. Mind you I don't hate any of these games and I enjoyed all of them through my playthroughs.

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

White, Platinum, and Red are my top three faves in that order. I love Platinum for the same reason @Cometstarlight mentioned. White was just awesome and felt refreshing from the current setup Pokemon had til then. Red is just nostalgic fun that I just cannot dislike. All of Generation III and VI are at the very bottom. Haha.

 

[Boss1708]

Aaaall the whining complaining about Emerald's Battle Frontier missing from ORAS and being so awesome, but nobody votes for it!

I am genuinly surprised Emerald has 0 votes tbh. It appears that people only "remembered" Emerald and its Battle Frontier exist due to ORAS, and are now forgetting about them once again...

I am also surprised Kanto has zero votes.

However, I am very delighted to see BW2 is clearly winning for now.