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Mafia Super Smash Bros. Ultimate Mafia - Endgame (Looking Stupid Joker!)

Elementar

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I don't play here often, but from what I can see there isn't a hammer on this phase - I'm basing this on the previous phase where we were asked to confirm if we wished to hammer or not.

Unvote Kaiveran I'm going to do this just to be safe, however @Elementar if you could confirm the hammer situation that would be great

Since it's now Christmas Day where I live there will be no hammer this phase. Sorry if this causes an inconvenience.

@leetic they both have dawn in their name. why are you so pressed about it anyways? Why would I still be analyzing? You win either way. Let more of the actual town voices come through

Speaking of which, @DawningWinds

Later

Just a heads up, his new account has an ! on the end (I made the same mistake earlier in the game) :giggle:
 

TheCapsFan

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The one thing I'll ask @TheCapsFan is if he saw Kai visit anyone else, since I would expect scum to have a rolecop
No, I did not see em visit anyone else.

@leetic they both have dawn in their name. why are you so pressed about it anyways? Why would I still be analyzing? You win either way. Let more of the actual town voices come through
This is WIFOM in its purest form.
 

Reiji

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Vote Kaiveran

I am actually not 100% sold on Caps' claim - bear in mind he claimed the role conveniently given to him by leetic and the results somewhat match up. However I can't deny that Kaiveran's chaotic jumbling around this phase makes me more uneasy, hence the vote.

Sorry I couldn't add much more at this point and well it's 1am Christmas Day here so I won't be adding much more to the phase unfortunately.
 
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Fine, I'll give @TheCapsFan one last chance to verify his claim. Can you confirm once more that you are a tracker and saw Kai visiting HD last night? If you're town fakeclaiming as a gambit, keep in mind it would be gamethrowing to continue to hold onto this claim

Kai seems set in holding on to eir claim. LOL at eir (likely) slip though.
 

TheCapsFan

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Fine, I'll give @TheCapsFan one last chance to verify his claim. Can you confirm once more that you are a tracker and saw Kai visiting HD last night? If you're town fakeclaiming as a gambit, keep in mind it would be gamethrowing to continue to hold onto this claim

Kai seems set in holding on to eir claim. LOL at eir (likely) slip though.
Yes, I can confirm this.
 

Kaiveran

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If anyone thought of asking, the Christmas stuff was great.

No, I did not see em visit anyone else.
Oh come on. Even with his huge advantage against me ATP, and a good amount evidence to suggest remaning wolf power, he just couldn't bring himself to fake another action on me to seal the deal. Illusion of transparency is a bitch, huh?

-------------------------

@DawningWinds
@Reiji
(I guess maybe @leetic! too, although a fair bit of this doesn't apply to him cuz, y'know, wincons)

Vote Kaiveran

I am actually not 100% sold on Caps' claim - bear in mind he claimed the role conveniently given to him by leetic and the results somewhat match up. However I can't deny that Kaiveran's chaotic jumbling around this phase makes me more uneasy, hence the vote.

Sorry I couldn't add much more at this point and well it's 1am Christmas Day here so I won't be adding much more to the phase unfortunately.

Fine, I'll give @TheCapsFan one last chance to verify his claim. Can you confirm once more that you are a tracker and saw Kai visiting HD last night? If you're town fakeclaiming as a gambit, keep in mind it would be gamethrowing to continue to hold onto this claim

Kai seems set in holding on to eir claim. LOL at eir (likely) slip though.

Not 100% sold. Likely slip, but not guaranteed.
As the only other confirmed not-scum left in the game, you have doubts. Even when things seem to be lining up perfectly. Might I suggest you're going about things the wrong way?

I see a lot of "this claim means this, this error means that" with little to no thought about the two whole cycles of the game that preceded it. This is exactly the wrong way to approach this stage of the game. A narrow focus only serves to advantage those who are good at executing quick stratagems and ratcheting up the excitement in the moment, not those who have actually and consistently been putting solving efforts into the game.

Particularly, I have a very difficult time believing that my claim (whose actions really aren't all that implausible anyway) totally negates any potential merits I've shown through my gameplay; especially vs. CapsFan, who (if you haven't read this already, and the remainder of Night 2 after it) did precious little except sling one-liners and waffle on neo D1 – until today of course, when he leveraged the Tracker claim that leetic basically handed him on a silver platter to incriminate me – the only person that could ensure he lost.

By contrast, if you all try to investigate or demonstrate why you feel that way, there'll be much more productive discourse to be had.

(Also @Reiji specifically: I know leetic's posts have been quite compelling to you, and I'm past the whole "3P bad" fit now, but you have to remember that Dawn is the one who actually shares your alignment here. You'd be better served listening to her input.)

Even though it kinda sucks and is a lot to ask as this is happening over Christmas (if you celebrate it), like...you know one of Caps and I is scum, so you only have two post histories to read through. So at least try and go through them yourselves and see what makes sense to you; don't rely on anyone else to do your playing or your thinking for you.

If after you go through all that, you still feel like steamrolling me instead of Caps...well, I'll be very disappointed, but fine, whatever, can't win 'em all.

At least then I'll know I'll have failed on my own merits, not just because wolves lucked into killing my N1 Seer target and a Survivor got angry at me about it. (Oh, and the brain fart with the two Dawns too)

In short, I've been trying to take a holistic approach to this game, which I feel is due diligence for any townie in an XLo situation. I need you to do the same.

-------------------------

Back to that Christmas shindig; I did the vast majority of my eating at the very beginning of it and now I'm hungry again – gonna take a break and dive into the major casework on me thus far (leetic N2 - Caps today - a smattering of recent Reiji posts)
 
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Kai, your Neo interactions look worse than anyone else's who is currently alive, with the only points in your favor being pure WIFOM. Despite digging through ISOs, though, I knew the massclaim would likely be more illuminating, and it seems that it was. Regardless, Caps and NP do not look partnered from their posts, and I feel you have been quite static in your read on that slot - sure, you have no other options at this point, but it feels like you are only following reasons you already brought up, with him targetting you being the only new "evidence", which doesn't really count for anything as it would only be scummy if you were town, which is not information we have. I admire you for continuing despite being boxed in, but don't expect it to clear you, as there are other wolves like JackOfHearts2005 who will continue posting "analysis" even after they've been caught.
 

DawningWinds

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Okay wow.

So I'm leaning towards Caps. Because Cop+Watcher+Tracker feels... like a lot of investigation for town in nine players? Like dude that's half the town just dedicated to investigation roles, that do nothin else. And watcher and tracker, I don't think really ever go in the same game, because they both serve the same purpose of seeing who people are visiting. To me two town roles that do essentially the same job feels especially wrong in a game this small. It just feels like way too much, even considering they maybe overcompensated for the only one mislynch. Plus as someone pointed out Caps' claim feels pretty convenient given that it's exactly what leetic had him pegged as.

But... on the other hand.
A conveniently wasted cop and an obviously targetted doc and a vig that can't be used cause it's too late. Also pretty convenient and this:
Still, I targeted HD.
looks like it could be a slip. But back on the Caps is scummier hand I'm pretty sure the "both have dawn in name" thing has thrown people off before and I don't know if that maybe slip is worth pushing because of that.

But I do overall believe Caps' role less so that's where I'm voting.
Vote TheCapsFan
 

HumanDawn

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7C3883D7-1E97-4167-ADE1-14631B291B74.jpeg
Merry Christmas everyone!!
 

Kaiveran

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Kai, your Neo interactions look worse than anyone else's who is currently alive, with the only points in your favor being pure WIFOM. Despite digging through ISOs, though, I knew the massclaim would likely be more illuminating, and it seems that it was. Regardless, Caps and NP do not look partnered from their posts, and I feel you have been quite static in your read on that slot - sure, you have no other options at this point, but it feels like you are only following reasons you already brought up, with him targetting you being the only new "evidence", which doesn't really count for anything as it would only be scummy if you were town, which is not information we have. I admire you for continuing despite being boxed in, but don't expect it to clear you, as there are other wolves like JackOfHearts2005 who will continue posting "analysis" even after they've been caught.
So I was going over your neo casework when I saw this post, and it looks like this situation has arose mainly by attrition (i.e with HD dying and Reiji being confirmed town), putting Caps right next to me anyways, so the way toDay shook out really isn't a big upset for you in hindsight. With your mind pretty much made up as to the two town candidates it's totally understandable that claims would be the clincher for you.

With that all said, I'd appreciate if you took the time to compare and contrast your Caps case and mine and see if you can't find something new. It looks to me that your probing into him is more what was being done (posts, votes, comments), while mine tries to focus more on how things are being done, and/or whether the progression between any two "whats" make sense, if you get the drift. I also include some peripheral bonus material I thought was relevant.

(In the spirit of the season, I also wanna let you literally cannot lose the game! This MYLO thunderdome is guaranteed to be between 1 town and 1 scum, and said scum is the last one standing, so either option ends the game immediately; even if I'm correctly claiming my power I don't even get the chance to shoot you! Not that I would, of course. You're cool and deserve this win. <3)
 

Kaiveran

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Point I accidentally glossed over: yes, I have been pretty static in my read on Caps, but I feel like he's been pretty static in his play until very recently, and even that looked like slotting into a mostly prefabricated narrative to me (DW seems to concur).

If I'm static on my read on a person who isn't doing much to change it and they turn out to be in a mechanically locked scumpool, is it a bad read?
 

Kaiveran

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an obviously targetted doc
who obviously isn't going to protect the un-CC'd Cop claim the night phase following said claim?
Since I've seen this point from both conftown (even though one of them is on my side now) I feel a need to address it.

Yeah, obviously anybody with a Guard/Doc power is gonna target the Cop, which really makes it useless for determining alignment. Nobody trueclaiming it will not have done it, and nobody fakeclaiming will not pretend to have done it. It's not a gotcha. It's just how things go.

(I'm actually surprised Reiji latched on to this, given the FA seering was the thing that really stuck in leetic's craw)
 

Kaiveran

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@DawningWinds, while your latest post has definitely made me feel warm and fuzzy inside, I don't wanna rest on my laurels, because they're still one short of a majority and Reiji might be listening!

Do you have a good handle on the stuff that went down Late D2 -> Night 2? I think pages 32 to 35 are especially important. You can see Caps slowly but surely getting boxed in as the Day ends with multiple PoEs converging on him. Then I posted my own analysis N2 and that focus sharpened, with Reiji putting him at tops.

Throughout all of this, HumanDawn is a major consistent player, and at several points clearly implied that he would be working through the pool in detail as I had. It seems Caps definitely didn't want this research to find voice against him toDay (and any Rolecop/Tracker shenanigans only support this given he was full Doc.) Coincidentally, that also narrowed my own scumpool to just him and Reiji.

Combine that with me immediately claiming a role that will guarantee he loses if I stick to my guns, I hope you can see that Caps' play is absolutely optimizing from a wolf perspective.

I'm of course willing to talk this all out with you if there's an issue.
 

Kaiveran

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And now we finally come to...sigh...TheCapsFan's """case""" on me.



BTW, I really, REALLY hate that there's no option here to preserve nested quotes. You really gotta click through to the original posts to understand what's being commented on. Still, it's gotta be done.

From Kai's intro post, one indirect mention and a general mention that reads null

Not looking too purposeful yet (not specifically, that is). If he was just recording positions for analysis later, that'd be cool I guess, but he'd need to actually follow up with it

Early GTH town on Neo

So far a lot of reporting of what happened, but no actual views or analysis being expressed.

Again, townread on Neo. Kai has not directly interacted with Neo up to this point, so this is technically their first interaction, though it is still kind of indirect since there are no mentions or quotes. I don't understand what that last part means, "limiting the scope of our engagement at this point?" Are ey trying to downplay the townread by saying again that ey haven't interacted with Neo much?

Looking way back to the Reiji wall I was responding to in the post that Caps is responding to here (you understand my frustration now?), the point of this statement was that "who to pressure for what activity levels" was a big sticking point that a lot of stuff got stuck to early D1, and I was suggesting that we move past this to more productive fields of discussion. So not downplaying anything. With that out of the way, this point is just more reporting.

Neo was also at one vote here from FA, and the vote count was actually 2:2:1 Soulmaster:Kaiveran:neopest. With only five people voting and the two wagons tied at 2, neo was still in the running for the D1 elim at this point.

As I explicitly stated, I was very pressed for time with work and other situations, so I wasn't reading too thoroughly. That's not alignment indicative. If there are any takes on how my behavior here doesn't make sense in the context of misreading the VC, I'd be willing to entertain those. (If you don't believe claims of RL issues idk what to tell you.)

First part is a response to Neo calling em out for not being convictive in their reads. Note the post Kai refers to is not the post where Neo explicitly says "I think there's a scum amongst one of the three players with low engagement in external drama, Kai/SM/FA," rather, Kai doesn't touch that post with a ten foot pole. I can see Kai doing this to avoid a situation in which ey and Neo would have to force a more direct w/w interaction on that point.

Besides, despite eir low activity, and em being behind more than a few pages, Kai is trying to read everyone in the thread at least a little bit. Ey have kept neo in eir towncore throughout the day despite not really giving any explicit reasons, unlike with leetic and Reiji, where by this point ey have elaborated on the townreads (moreso for leetic, less for Reiji) for those two through eir posts so far.

This is Caps straight-up bullshitting.

Don't believe me? Read the post he quotes here, then the neo post I'm responding to in it, and see if you can't smell it. She specifically mentioned that she was wary of the players that weren't engaged in drama in that post; even if she didn't spell it out explicitly, it's clearly implied. And in what neo/me world is my direct response to her wondering why I'm not involved in the drama, explaining in detail why I'm not involved in the drama and don't want to be, not count as a direct w/w interaction? This smacks of moving the goalposts of "direct" so he can invent scumminess where none exists.

The second item, expecting every read to be detailed, that's pretty debatable I guess. But I don't think y'all can deny the first part stinks.

Commenting on the neo/leetic situation... I think this is odd because leetic's switch onto Soulmaster seems relatively reluctant on a reread, as if they wanted to keep pushing Neo because they were still scumreading them, but switched to Soulmaster because half the Soul voters were unlikely to return (which fits with their wincon, at that point on D1 they just wanted to look towny).

More empty reporting, and a comment on leetic's play that is highly tangential at best. Why is he going on about how weird leetic's reluctance to vote SM is when he should be proving beyond a doubt I'm Scummy McScummerson, the mayor of Scumsville? I've peeked below too, he never links this back. Maybe he wasn't confident enough in the size, hmm?

By this point the neo/leetic stuff has continued; ey were busy at the time, however, so I wouldn't expect them to have reacted to it

This says literally nothing. I highly appreciate fluff, but not in my MafiaWolf cases.

Finally, a direct read on Neo. I find the first sentence ironic, given the results we've gotten.

The townread seems reluctantly given, despite Neo being in Kai's towncore the whole day. The gaps in engagement part is a strong townpoint in Neo's favor, which they make the focal point of the read. The read itself is noncommittal due to its "lack of confidence" yet Kai, in eir posts, seems pretty confident that Neo is town throughout the day. There's not much here that justifies eir townreading of Neo throughout the day, besides the fact that she engaged with everyone which all of the players had done by this point in time.

First item: yes, because townies never misread scum as town, especially not when fresh off mischopping a townie who seems to exhibit similar characteristics. :rolleyes:

Second: I'm sure Caps' knows what conditional statements are and needs to play dumb to reach, but just to keep the air clear:

normally I’d say [I put neo in my townreads] with a bit less confidence, but considering the EoD I’ve just lived through, and the fact that nothing brought up against her really convinced me of scum…nah

The "less confident" bit in my posts is in a conditional statement, which I pretty quickly went on to negate. This is not so much waffling on her as expressing how the circumstances of how things went down D1 shaped my read on her.

D1 "towncores" aren't necessarily the end-all be-all of town reads either. I'm sure Caps knows this as well, etc. etc.

Whether the townread of neopest was "justified" or not is another debatable point – obviously with 20:20 hindsight we can see I was wrong, but wrong doesn't mean scum. I believe I arrived where I did reasonably and did the best with what I had back then.

-----------------------

So that's...let's see...2 out of 10 items in which Caps kinda sorta makes some valid points. Congrats!

This segues quite nicely into my next point – I think it's very telling that he doesn't even touch my N2 case on him. Again, if you're truly a townie in a thunderdome to the death with the last scum, your nails and teeth should be sharpened, ready to rip this shit apart. But with less than 24h to go he still hasn't. I suspect because he knows the truth isn't on his side, and the more town looks at the big picture the worse his prospects look.

In conclusion:
6da28afdd7ae16872136263b388d86c22158d6061dc7c8a8e75f63773384b34b_1.jpg
 

Kaiveran

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meow hope people catch the pun
 

TheCapsFan

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So that's...let's see...2 out of 10 items in which Caps kinda sorta makes some valid points. Congrats!
A lot of the posts that you pass off simply as "reporting" are important in showing your process, throughout D1, of keeping Neo at a distance while indirectly defending them enough to pass them off as a strong townread. You begin fresh out the gate with a GTH Town on Neo, then a small, indirect townread based on a reaction to your pushing inactive players (which, we can now see, was a farce, given that neither myself nor Reiji was scum), then a townread with no justification, then you placing them in your towncore, keeping them there for the rest of the day, but then backing off during the night after they started to get some heat their way.

This is classic D1 distancing.

This segues quite nicely into my next point – I think it's very telling that he doesn't even touch my N2 case on him. Again, if you're truly a townie in a thunderdome to the death with the last scum, your nails and teeth should be sharpened, ready to rip this shit apart. But with less than 24h to go he still hasn't. I suspect because he knows the truth isn't on his side, and the more town looks at the big picture the worse his prospects look.
I mean, I have pretty conclusive evidence provided to me by the hosts through my role that you are scum, so I don't feel like I'm the one who needs to defend myself here.

But, since you asked, I'll take a look.

neo + Caps
First at #104 we see that Caps was on at the same time neo was posting. Of all the people he interacts with in the following posts, ->neo is the least substantial and least pointed by far. The single comment he makes also comes across as coachy.
When I am catching up on a thread, I always start with the first unread post and try to post my thoughts as they come without reading any new posts, as to keep my thought process consistent and so I can form genuine opinions as they come, rather than using recent posts to cloud my judgement of older posts. This was difficult to do D1 since I was constantly being quoted and seeing those posts pop up as I was backreading/responding, but I managed to stick with it for the most part. I think you would understand this pretty well, given that this was the approach you began with this game. This point is moot.

#121 neo puts minor footnote shade on Caps.
A lot of people had similar sentiments about my early suspicions of DW, so it makes sense that neo would sheep off that.

Empty walkback shade from #156.
Walkback, yes, but not from me, from HD. This post is first and foremost a scumread on me by Neo, as Neo herself later said.

#164 not neo-related, but leetic and DW make good points here
This was in the middle of leetic's huge tunnel on me, so that needs to be taken into account as well. I responded later giving leetic that point and saying that I thought leetic's pressuring of DW as a whole was productive. Reiji echoed me on this point later, and even gave me as an example, saying that he thought I was producing more productive content once leetic got off my ass.

#172 isn’t too bad on its face, but again, he’s just commenting on neo’s stuff without actually showing interest in making a read on her. Again at #187. This is becoming a pattern.
Neo had not pinged me at that point, so there was no reason to make a stricter read on her. At this point I was still just trying to catch up, while also dealing with neverending notifications from leetic quoting me every twenty seconds. Same is true at 187.

The “lol defense” against leetic is starting to become grating. It feels less like dismissing attacks because they’re obviously ridiculous and more like trying to downplay their significance.

(I’d read more into his defending of others here but I know now they can’t be buddies with him, so moving on)
Leetic was honestly pissing me off, and if we're being honest, his tunneling of me was starting to feel a bit ad hominem; we've had some history in the past, and this is the first game we've played together in a while. Whenever I am attacked ad hominem I tend to respond with sarcasm and in this case that played into his confirmation bias - when he admitted that my sarcasm was doing as such, I started taking him more seriously.

Overall this doesn't really pertain to your case though.

Caps just seems to be parroting Reiji at #231
Had not gotten to the point where Reiji asked essentially the same thing yet. See my point earlier about backreading from start to finish, this was only my second post in that set of backreads.

#261, he bounces of FA’s suspicion of me, and draws an analogy to neo, in his first real read-oriented comment about her! Congrats!
While his frustration with leetic further down the post reads as pretty genuine, when we come back to neo, suddenly things are chummy again; no push on the slight neo sus yet. I would also say it’s sus that both of them are converging on me, but let’s be honest; I’ve been severely off my game this…uh, game.
This one I will give to you. The way that neo was pushing FA and placing them in the same category as you when your play was clearly different pinged me quite a bit. I probably should have pushed more on that point. Neo's incessant push of FA when FA had done literally nothing scummy was one thing that I came back to when thinking about FA's case on Neo.

#351, 352 keeps pace a little too well with the momentum shift. What with the simultaneous warming up on HD, the continued trend of mentioning neo without solviness, and the will-he-or-won’t-he turn onto Soul.
The "warming up" on HD was because I thought his later posts that he had made while I was gone were better than the posts he was making most recently to when I had left/made the trustfall.

Soulmaster's read on Neo pinged me. I was trying to eliminate possible lynch candidates and this didn't help me do that, both were still in my PoE.

I stand by what I said regarding Soulmaster's posts. They were honestly decent efforts to get caught up by Soulmaster's standards, and I think the pipeline of "Soulmaster giving more of an effort to make a complete response more than he usually does" -> "good enough for now, but still needs to pick up the slack content wise" -> "content isn't picking up, so they're back where they started" makes sense logically.

#356, again, really dislike how any real solving attention to neo seems to be externally prompted by known townies. If he follows up on this i’ll be pleasantly surprised.
"Known townies" - you mean FA and just FA? Because they're the only player who's "prompted" me thus far in this ISO as per your argument. I don't disagree; FA was my top town throughout D1, I reacted more to their posts and opinions by nature.

He does! At #368! And it’s wayyyy too much of a jump. From “hmm interesting sorta considering maybe” whenever a townie asks to in his top vote options for the Day. Just…yecch.
Those were simply the three players that were left in my PoE to lynch that day. leetic was annoying, but seemed generally town so I took them out, I liked DW's responses to my pressure, Reiji and FA looked solid, and HD was starting to put himself in the same category as the former two. Those three were left to choose from. That's how I play D1; I don't try and solve the game (or individual alignments, for that matter, since there are no facts out in the open), I try and figure out who, based on their posts, I don't want to lynch, and then pick from the rest. Then I try and solve based on D1 results.

#437, not explicitly neo-related but I can’t help but note how he signals jumping back on Soulmaster as soon as it looks like neo might be a viable wagon
Again, neither player had been eliminated from my PoE yet, I was considering both options (and you) at the time. I got lucky that the top three wagons all tied at the top were the ones I wouldn't mind going to lynch.

#442 1good+1bad on neo, not terrible but, like, see #368 again
More like 1 good + 3 bad on neo:
  1. FA made a good point on Neo being hypocritical that I liked
  2. FA's ISO helped me reason how Neo might be scum, enough to the point where I was able to contribute to this possibility
  3. Neo's treatment of SM was weird, especially after he gave her the random townread
So overall a negative perception, not the 50/50 you make it seem to be.

#447 addresses neo in more detail here, this post is pretty good and looking like they might be finding their footing. Neo, however, gives a fob-off of an answer in #449, and #456 does not look like the response of someone who was genuinely interested in neo’s alignment.
#456 I will give to you again, but that's because I knew I had the ability to track her in my back pocket. I was considering Soulmaster to be a scum partner with either of you, which is why I ultimately voted there, but I also thought that there was probably one scum within you two. I tracked Neo because she was more sus to me as a whole throughout the day, and I wanted to give you a chance to catch up since I did like some of your earlier post. Turns out I was kind of right anyway.

Trusting leetic’s #574, I’d say he makes a fair point against him even if not neo-related.
I fully admit I was all over the place D1, and was acting out of emotion for much of the day. Luckily I was able to turn it around enough for the rest of the game to catch you last night.

#584 feels like empty signaling.
Nope, just being honest about the lack of a Soulmaster claim, since Neo was my second best option. Had Soulmaster claimed, we would have been able to narrow it down further and probably lynch scum D1.

Conclusion: Very Likely

Caps is my top choice for D3, barring any arguments that might sway me onto HD. While relative to his post count, he seems to have about as much fuckery going on as HD does, the apparent lack of independent interest in solving neo all C1, his inconsistencies in other areas, and his lack of any step-up comparable to HD’s put him over the edge for me.
This conclusion makes sense as I was the easiest way out for you to mislynch. I had already been suspected as a secondary option (almost universally sussed, but never really pushed) throughout most of Day 1 and again on Day 2 as the PoE began to close. Reiji was way too town for you to push, and HD was the tougher push since he's the stronger player.

Overall I think your case doesn't hold much water, as my thought process on Neo went from null -> slight scum -> up for lynch -> scummy enough to check during the night. Some of your points about overall inconsistencies in my play hold, but to claim that I "don't have any interest in solving Neo all D1" falls flat given that my responses to the FA ISO, as well as my arguments against them regarding their reluctance to discuss Soulmaster, clearly show that I was interested in pursuing the case further. Rather, I lynched Soulmaster because I thought they were the scummier player overall, with a lot of actions that didn't make any sense and potential ties to both of my other suspects. Besides, I think "not having a desire to solve someone" on D1 is just a weak argument in general, as there's no way you can really solve anything D1 since there are no facts - you just make your best guess given the discourse, which I did.

But, again, at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. I know you're scum.
 
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So I'm leaning towards Caps. Because Cop+Watcher+Tracker feels... like a lot of investigation for town in nine players? Like dude that's half the town just dedicated to investigation roles, that do nothin else. And watcher and tracker, I don't think really ever go in the same game, because they both serve the same purpose of seeing who people are visiting. To me two town roles that do essentially the same job feels especially wrong in a game this small. It just feels like way too much, even considering they maybe overcompensated for the only one mislynch.
Kai's role still adds investigation, and the fact that there is a flipped Watcher and Doctor or even a Watcher at all shows that balance wasn't terribly much of a concern. Tracker and Watcher are fairly common together, although they may seem similar the roles have significantly different utility.
 

Reiji

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My main issue Caps is the fact that you claimed a Tracker which was essentially handed to you and DW confirmed my concern that a cop/tracker/commuter/doc in a game this small is… wild.

But then so is JOAT. However I also can’t take my mind off the fact that now Kaiveran has picked up steam, so have you.

I really think I may regret this but I think I may have to Vote: TheCapsFan
 

Reiji

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It’s hard because to be honest they are both being so scummy and I am finding it hard to properly say one is more scum than the other, even after my vote I’m thinking that the way Kai responds to some things or pleas doesn’t sit right with me.
 
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