Suppose they established a more long standing feud between Ash and Giovanni?

[owenpeterson]

For as long as the show has been running, Ash's feud with Team Rocket has always been between him and the bumbling trio Jessie, James, and Meowth, and it's driven me to the point where I've gotten extremely fed up with those three. I mean, Jessie, James, and Meowth have been going after Ash's Pikachu for years, and Ash has been able to whoop their asses very easily by now.

Personally I think Ash is more than ready to graduate to feuding with higher ranking members of the Team Rocket organization in general. Even possibly with the boss of Team Rocket himself....Giovanni!!!

What frustrates me about this is that I feel the writers are trying to keep these two as far apart as possible. There has been very very little interaction between these Ash and Giovanni. Even when Ash was to challenge him for the Earthbadge at the Viridian Gym, he winds up battling Jessie, James, and Meowth instead because he had to leave because of some "accident". I wonder what goes through the minds of these writers of the anime.

Several other high ranking members of Team Rocket besides Jessie, James, and Meowth, including Cassidy and Butch a few times. Dr. Namba during the kidnapping of Lugia among others have had their plans ruined by Ash Ketchum. Chances are that word is going to get back to Giovanni that their failed plans are a result of this one boy's interferences.

Even Giovanni himself has had a total of TWO run ins with Ash throughout the entirety of the anime series. It was during the attempt to recapture Mewtwo and during the attempted takeover of Unova. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Giovanni's memory get erased after both events?

Is Giovanni even aware of the fact that Jessie, James, and Meowth have been following Ash for years in pursuit of his Pikachu? Now, personally, I believe that it is time to raise the stakes in Ash's war with the Team Rocket organization. I don't see anything wrong with an Ash Ketchum vs Giovanni storyline. I've seen this done in fanfictions. Hell. Red even feuded with Giovanni in the games.

What to you think of the idea of Ash Ketchum having a more established feud with the Team Rocket boss, Giovanni?

 

[Shadao]

If Ash were to face Giovanni on a more established feud, it would have to lead to the downfall of Team Rocket organization as a whole in the end. The reason why Giovanni never had a feud with Ash is because Giovanni simply sees Ash as an ordinary trainer and a mere nuisance not worth attention. In order for Giovanni to take notice of the young trainer, Ash would have to actively face off the Rocket organization head on and thwart a majority of their operations. But to gain the attention of the Boss himself would put Ash in a more dangerous situation than before because unlike the trio, Giovanni is a very serious threat and he would not hesitate on using his resources to eliminate Ash for good. Thus the likely conclusion to the feud is Giovanni being defeated and the Team Rocket organization crippled permanently (if not disbanded for good), which would dramatically change the status quo in the show.

Of course, the Team Rocket trio could still hang around and try to capture Pikachu and other Pokémon as usual. They have proven that they don't need the Rocket organization to fund their mechas and traps, as shown in Advanced and Diamond and Pearl. The only thing that could prove to be difficult is that now they don't have anyone to give their stolen Pokémon to. Sure, they could to sell them to someone else, or try to start their own Rocket organization, but it wouldn't feel the same without Giovanni, the boss who wants rare and powerful Pokémon to rule the world.

All in all, all I can say is that a more established feud between Ash and Giovanni would certainly be show-changer, something that has never been seen before.

 

[Muur]

This isn't the games, I don't think they should bother. Ash shouldn't go head to head with the boss of Team Rocket like that in a bug proper thing, he's just some random kid.

 

[Jaye]

If Ash and Giovanni were to feud, then they'd have to establish what, exactly, they'd be feuding over. Ash thwarting a few of their schemes isn't enough reason for Giovanni to personally intervene or to make Ash a target for the whole of Team Rocket, because he doesn't seem to effect the greater picture, whatever that greater picture might actually be, and Ash has no reason to go after Team Rocket. So neither side have any incentive to start something with each other.

The writers like to keep the status quo and depend a lot on established routines and patterns to form the structure of the story. Ash vs TRio is so easy for them because TRio have the long-established motive of wanting Pikachu, and anything Ash does after that is just self-defence. Establishing a conflict with Giovanni would mean deviating away from this routine, and that's just never going to happen. After all, if Ash defeats Giovanni, Team Rocket will be no more, and the writers will no longer have a cheap and easy way of creating conflict in the episodes. After all, the TRio don't want Pikachu for themselves; they want to give him to Giovanni.

The idea itself should have been integrated a long time ago, and the show would probably be very different had they done so. I'd be all for it if they did it now, so long as they didn't do it in a lazy, half-hearted way.

 

[Nick102]

What frustrates me about this is that I feel the writers are trying to keep these two as far apart as possible. There has been very very little interaction between these Ash and Giovanni. Even when Ash was to challenge him for the Earthbadge at the Viridian Gym, he winds up battling Jessie, James, and Meowth instead because he had to leave because of some "accident". I wonder what goes through the minds of these writers of the anime.

I believe that was an excuse the writers came up with to get Giovanni to leave the gym in order for Ash to be able to actually win, because Giovanni had Mewtwo, meaning that even if Ash did get to battle him he would still be too overpowered for Ash. And of course it's important for Ash to be able to win his gym badges (even when he has to re-challenge a gym leader in some episodes) in order for the anime to progress, so that's why Ash ended up getting his badge from the trio and not Giovanni since they get beaten by Ash all the time.

 

[Akari]

I do really want the penultimate battle between Gio and Ashy boy. Would probably be something they could do to end the series along with meeting Ash's dad and Ash and Misty hookin up!

 

[Beth Pavell]

Yeah, a long standing feud where Giovanni with wealth and the power of Team Rocket behind him, can't squash Ash, a ten-year old scrub who starts off with fresh-faced pokémon every time he moves to a new region.

I doubt I'd be able to suspend my disbelief watching that

 

[Shadao]

Theoretically, a direct feud between Ash and Giovanni could work, but only near the end of series when Ash has managed to develop a team of powerhouses (or called his best reserves) capable of fighting Giovanni to a standstill. And even so, in my opinion, it would work only once as Giovanni's wealth and power would make it impossible for Ash to return to the status quo unless Giovanni loses badly and the entire Team Rocket organization collapses or something like that.

 

[JacobYBM]

While it would be nice there isn't much point to it. Satoshi would never get a climatic and definitive battle with Sakaki because then the story would be over. It would essentially be decades of Inspector Gadget. Of course, assuming the Satoshi continuity was allowed to come to an end it would be quite a sight to behold. I assume for Satoshi to ever become more than a blip on Sakaki's radar he would have to become an official agent of the government. It's the only way there would ever be plausible reason that Satoshi could track down and engage in battles with Sakaki.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I think the TRio should be the ones to defeat Giovanni whenever the series finally ends. They give up villainy, make an honest living, Rocketshipping becomes canon.

 

[henrymidfields]

While I would love to have Ash vs Giovanni, it will be quite unrealistic, as Team Rocket is shown to be a bigger organization in the anime than in the games. (Case in point, even Lance couldn't bring them down, which is a case of Truth in Television, if you consider most criminal organizations in real life.) Ultimately, have TRio step back like they eventually sort of did for XY, and have the local region's villains take over as the show's villains. Or, replace them with someone more competent such as Butch/Cassidy, or Domino. And have Ash catch them doing something other than stealing Ash's Pikachu.

 

[LavenderTownGhost]

I voted "I'm not sure". In the earlier seasons, it would've been great to see more Ash vs. Giovanni. However now, with all of the focus on the newer teams, it wouldn't be fitting to continue that sort of feud. Would've loved to have seen it, though. Perhaps Giovanni was too much for Ash, haha.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

In that case we might have had more plot based pokemon series to follow. Building up on plotlines introduced in pasts rather than rehashing ideas and being repetitive.

Idea of exploring more beneath surface of villain organization and tying it into main character story could lead to more thrilled and eventful atmosphere, expectancy to see in what way long, standing unfinished rivalries, clashes in methodology or personal ambitions are going to play out and resolved. Accompanied with more meaningful character development and build of drama.

I would definitely welcome, even encourage that something more concrete with TR organization and their leader Giovanni is made in this anime. For last 17 years we were always delivered tiny tidbits about Giovanni character often hiding in penumbra with very little if anything of his past and motives bei ng explained. There are several elite TR members, whole hierarchy going within their ranks. And its underwhelming that ever since they got introduced in 1997. now 17 years later not much has been made in that aspect.

Ash had couple of encounters with Giovanni, contributed to downfall of their plans few times with help of friends and other authorities like Lance such as in stopping dr. Namba plan in Lugia arc, messing up Tyson plan regarding Red Gyarados, contributing in freeing Meloetta and preventing Giovanni from conquering Unova(although that was more Jessie, James and Meowth merit in helping Giovanni come back to normal state of mind).

He had battle vs Giovanni which resulted in his defeat and regularly confronts and deals with Jessie, James and Meowth which most of time aren't took as serious threat by him and his friends. But on larger scale there has never been builded some bigger, more substantial arc based on Ash confronting head of Team Rocket organization which would lead toward climax. Endangering survival of Team Rocket orgsnization either severely crippling their activities and influence to the point of not being able to recover from that, or downright ending destroyed.

As possibly most impacting and powerful evil organization in pokeworld.

Which would have been really interesting and rewarding to see for all viewers around the globe which hoped and wished for something more productive coming out of it. Enriching on storyline of pokemon and bringing subplot which would provide more orignality and novelty into it.

While were at it in case feud between Ash and Giovanni ever happens, with main protagonist activities, fame and exceptional battle skills capturing head of TR attention starting to view him as dangerous threat. Turning into long, full of build up and unexpected twists arc, bring back all of Ash older friends (Brock, Gary, May, Misty etc)to provide helping hand in defeating Team Rocket once and for all. To prevent them from destroying their homes, towns and world they are living in, protect those they care about and prevent alongside Ash Giovanni from changing completely world order affecting not just Ash but everyone else lives in that case. Thus providing justification to reunit with Ash in attempt of stopping Giovanni being their concern as well.


For as long as Team Rocket was properly introduced in pokemon, i always wished to see real, legit battle between Giovanni and Ash. Witnessing clash of two completely different ideologies. Having on one side consumed by power, control and greed individual facing young, full of competitive spirit boy who believes in love, thrust, freedom for everyone with people and humans living in harmony treating them as your partners, rather than servants.

Although if huge more notable confrontation between Ash, his friends and Team Rocket ever happens, i imagine it would not be taking place until last saga Ash travels through. Or last we as viewers are going to see and follow him and everyone else who played important part in pokemon getting follow up in coming closer toward fulfillment of dreams and wrapping up loose ends. About time when pokemon anime approaches its end(if ever).

Because prior to that writers would probably not see point in breaking current status quo, get rid of Rocket trio as provider of comic relief and spend one of their better cards what would be probably viewed in their mind too early. In introducing climactic and heavily plot induced storyline regarding powerful organization as TR before pokemon series climax, finale.

But overall yeah im all for it that big confrontation with Team Rocket organization eventually happens.

 

[Pikafanboy]

I can't see it working. Unlike the games, the anime shows a clear and realistic difference in power between the likes of Champions and villainous leaders and the common trainers such as Ash. I'd save such a thing for an end of the franchise finale when Ash pretty much is the Pokemon Master.

 

[Deleted member 72389]

I can see something like this happening at the end of the series, but definitely not now.
I think if they actually make Ash a Pokemon Master at the end of the series, then that would probably mean that he would become just as powerful as the Champions of various regions (or possibly more powerful than them). Plus, he would also have a set of powerhouse pokemons by that time. So, I can see that Ash defeating Giovanni quite easily.
But I don't think that he'll be able to do so at present. Besides, they don't even have any reason for having a 'long standing feud'.
Though if Ash is back to his DP level, and uses a team of power-houses( Charizard, Sceptile, Krookodile, Snorlax, Infernape, and whatever becomes his powerhouse for the XY saga) then they would have a very interesting duel. I don't really think that he would win realistically, but it sure would be an epic fight to watch.

 

[JacobYBM]

Yeah, while for the purposes of entertainment it would be nice to see Satoshi's powerhouses battle Sakaki the Rocket Gang leader has decades of experience and trained Pokémon under his wing. Sakaki should ultimately win any battle they have.

 

[Beth Pavell]

I think this is missing the point. Giovanni isn't just powerful because he's a Gym Leader, he's powerful because he has a resilient and extensive criminal organisation at his beck and call. In the games I can swallow the idea of defeating Giovanni = defeating Team Rocket but I'm not so sure I'd be prepared to swallow it in the anime.

Of course, in my opinion the Team Galactic episodes were full of contrived peril and convenient endings so maybe anime confrontations with the evil teams just aren't for me

 

[owenpeterson]

Now this might be a long shot, but I'm guessing that TR has records on file of previous plans and missions that have either been thwarted or failed. Chances are, when several Rocket agents look back on their previous missions, they will notice that they often encountered this one boy with a Pikachu that foiled their plans. Cases in point: The mission with the Red Gyarados, the attempted capture of Lugia, the Meloetta mission in Unova, the attempted recapture of Mewtwo, the attack on board the St. Anne. etc. Wouldn't this knowledge eventually get back to Giovanni, and he would take interest in the young trainer from Pallet Town? Plus isn't there any chance that the TRio have told Giovanni about their persuits of Ash? Or learned about him from Cassidy and Butch?

I'm just saying that there's always a chance that Giovanni would learn of Ash's existence.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Giovanni did meet Ash in BW, so he does know of his existence and I'm pretty sure that Team Rocket did say that they were after Ash's Pikachu to him a couple of times. Although, that part could have been added into the dub. Considering that Team Rocket, as an organization, is still going strong even with all of those failed missions, I don't think that it would really affect Giovanni all that much to realize that Ash is involved with those failed plans. I doubt that Ash is the only trainer capable of stopping a Team Rocket plan and even if he was, why should Giovanni care when he still has his organization to run. A feud or rivalry between Ash and Giovanni at this point would feel really forced.

 

[owenpeterson]

Giovanni did meet Ash in BW, so he does know of his existence and I'm pretty sure that Team Rocket did say that they were after Ash's Pikachu to him a couple of times. Although, that part could have been added into the dub. Considering that Team Rocket, as an organization, is still going strong even with all of those failed missions, I don't think that it would really affect Giovanni all that much to realize that Ash is involved with those failed plans. I doubt that Ash is the only trainer capable of stopping a Team Rocket plan and even if he was, why should Giovanni care when he still has his organization to run. A feud or rivalry between Ash and Giovanni at this point would feel really forced.

So technically, Ash would have to be put in a position in which in order to save the day, he has to deliver a severe blow to the organization, such as infiltrate a TR hideout or something, get out alive, and get several key TR agents arrested, or something in order for the TR Boss to take notice of Ash.

During which previous series do you think an Ash vs Giovanni feud would have been most convenient?