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SwSh Sword & Shield: Expansion Pass

At least I don't have to buy Let's Go to get Meltan, but I hope they find a way to fuse all Meltan you transfer so an evolution to Melmetal is possible within the main games.
 
On dynamax in sinnoh, the remakes no longer have to be compatible with the main games. LGPE show us that already. Swsh are compatible with each other and thats it and thats how every game release will be moving forward they implied as much when they said dexit was the new norm going forward, the sinnoh remakes will have a dex complelty different to swsh in the first place and be unable to trade or battle because of it, let alone dynamax.

I think LGPE are pretty clearly an aberrant GO tie-in rather than a formula for the future. Remakes in the traditional style would still want to be largely compatible with the base games of the generation. And Dexit shouldn't be an issue because they can just make a patch, as they've done with the new and old Pokémon that have been added in the DLC. Regardless of whether you bought the pass, you still get a free update to make all of that content compatible. The only reason they wouldn't do this is if DP remakes run on a fundamentally different engine from SwSh.

Anyway, I do think @nickdt is right in that the release of a bundle pack greatly indicates that there's no more Galar DLC to come. In terms of the release schedule, you can think of it as comparable to USUM. So to me, that leaves just one question - is there going to be another Gen 8 game, or are we now awaiting Gen 9?

It wouldn't exactly surprise me if SwSh + DLC is all we got. Again, making the comparison to USUM, this would be like how Gens 5 and 6 only had two major releases, and how Gen 7 may as well have since Let's Go was more of its own thing. This would probably make it more feasible for them to get Gen 9 (which they are almost certainly working on right now) out in 2022, if they want to keep the three-year cycle.

But of course, it hasn't always been a three-year cycle. In two instances, it was stretched to four. If they aren't planning to put Gen 9 out until 2023, then I could see Sinnoh remakes coming out in 2021 or 2022. With more Galar content pretty much ruled out, that feels like the only real option left, especially considering some of the Pokémon that still remain Dexited even after the Crown Tundra. Whatever the case may be, I feel like there must be a break year in there somewhere, whether that's firmly next year before Gen 9 in 2022, or whichever year between now and 2023 isn't populated by either Sinnoh or Gen 9.

(Oh, not to rehash the whole tired debate of "Is Let's Go Gen 7 or 8?", but I wonder if perhaps it would make more sense to group LGPE, SwSh, and the DLC together as a cluster of Nintendo Switch-based projects, from a production point of view. Keep in mind that "generations" aren't actually a very formally defined thing. We know roughly how Game Freak's process works - the experienced developers begin work on a new generation almost as soon as the newest one hits store shelves, and in the meantime, the less-experienced developers work on smaller projects like remakes or enhanced versions in order to fill their time while they're not needed on the core project. From this angle, I don't think that LGPE had much, developmentally speaking, to do with "Gen 7," which I use here as shorthand to refer to a specific allocation of 3DS-based development. In fact, it was LGPE and SwSh that shared overlap in the way that you would expect a primary pair and a remake/enhanced version to. Here is an excerpt from an interview with Masuda and Ohmori:

> Pokemon.com: The development of these games must have overlapped with Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee! quite a bit. What did you learn about Nintendo Switch development from those games that you were able to carry over to Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield?

> Mr. Ohmori: Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee! were developed at the same time as Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield, and the two teams collaborated heavily. With Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee!, we were able to create the core systems that form the base for our development on Nintendo Switch.

Suffice it to say that on a technical level, LGPE had a whole lot more to do with Gen 8 than they did with Gen 7. Which to me sort of goes without saying, because arbitrary criteria like "Are there new Starters? A new professor? etc." just don't really affect peoples' work priorities like the fundamental question of "Which console are we developing for?" does. In that regard, it may be instructive to imagine this hypothetical scenario:

GBA development phase - RS, FRLG, Emerald
DS development phase 1 - DP, Platinum, HGSS
DS development phase 2 - BW, B2W2
3DS development phase 1 - XY, ORAS
3DS development phase 2 - SM, USUM
Switch development phase 1 - SwSh, Isle/Tundra, LGPE
Switch development phase 2 - Gen 9, blahblah, maybe Sinnoh?

... except LGPE are front-loaded to the beginning of the Switch development phase, for a variety of reasons. Again, this isn't to pedantically contend that LGPE are "actually Gen 8," but rather to suggest that they might've already filled the role in this development period that people are expecting DP remakes to do, and that we might actually be closer to Gen 9 than we think.)

Also, with the two horses that fuse with Calyrex, we will be up to 898 Pokémon this gen. If they add one more Mythical next year via a free update, then that would bring us up to 899 (and in that case, Gen 8's Mythical "trio" might as well be Meltan/Melmetal which, incidentally, does have a G-Max form much like how Diancie got a Mega Evolution and Marshadow got a Z-Move; Zarude, and then the next one) - and wouldn't it be cute to start Gen 9 with Pokémon #900?
 
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(still surprised my brain didn't wake me up at 6am for the trailer)

That was pretty interesting, and I'm definitely more excited for the Crown Tundra than I was before, though I'll admit not much more (probably too sleepy to feel it right now).

  • The Crown Tundra looks freaking gorgeous as always, I a really looking forward to exploring this snowy area with a brand new team by my side.
  • I'm more interested in the Galarian Star Tournament now than I was before. Idk seeing it in action got me pretty hype, and I'm looking forward to battling with some of my favorite characters in the series.
  • Galarian Slowking is pretty meh to me, and I probably won't be picking one up for anything but the dex. Still, it was nice for it to be revealed finally.
  • Max Raid Adventures seem pretty fun, and I'll probably end up doing a few
  • The Pokemon Go to Home transfer is finally going to come out and I am really freaking excited for that. I have so many Pokemon on Go that I would love to bring over! I'm super hyped to see my Shiny Latios in-game!
  • I'm pretty excited to see that release date too. That's coming out a lot sooner than we all expected initially, since we've had so much release in mid-November for Pokemon these last several years. The timing is a lot better for me personally too, which I am quite happy about.
I do have to say, I am a little surprised we didn't see the Pokemon that Calyrex can fuse with. I mentioned yesterday that they have been revealing almost all of the Pokemon from the DLCs beforehand, unlike with the main game. I don't think we'll see another trailer though, so I guess it will remain a mystery
 
I do have to say, I am a little surprised we didn't see the Pokemon that Calyrex can fuse with. I mentioned yesterday that they have been revealing almost all of the Pokemon from the DLCs beforehand, unlike with the main game. I don't think we'll see another trailer though, so I guess it will remain a mystery

Interestingly there was also not a peep about the Ultra Beasts. Guess they want to leave at least a couple of things unspoiled.
 
Okay, I just want to get this off my chest: having every single legendary brought back in the Crown Tundra isn't the best idea in the context of Dexit. I don't mind some of the legendries coming back as
  1. Game Freak needs to make Dynamax Adventures somewhat more compelling and
  2. Pokémon like the Regis and the Legendary Birds are actually getting new lore in the Crown Tundra, which is kind of something I've wanted previous games to do for past legendaries that debuted in different regions anyways.
That being said, this kind of goes against several points of cited for Game Freak undergoing Dexit in the first place: game balance and wanting to focus on Pokémon that actually fit the region. Unless Game Freak nerfs a good portion of the legendary Pokémon (especially previous box legends), the first reason is definitely broken (though some argue that Dynamax itself already destroyed game balance from the get-go). As for Pokémon that actually fit the region, quite a few of the legendaries seem out of place in Galar:
  • The Tapu Quartet; They're guardian spirits of the Alolan islands, so see them somewhere else was going to feel awkward regardless. Pushing that aside, being in a tundra is practically the opposite of a tropical climate. I barely give them a pass to due to debuting in the previous generation. If anything, I think the correct time for them to be brought back would have been back in the Isle of Armor. It fits with Mustard taking influence from foreign cultures and could maybe provide Kubfu/Urshifu an obstacle to overcome as part of its growth.
  • The Weather Trio: Regardless of the presence or absence of Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution, bringing them back in the generation after Mega Evolution got removed is a painful reminder of how Game Freak likes to introduce and then throw away certain features regardless of how popular it may be. If they end up giving these forms back to them without allowing the other capable Pokémon the opportunity to Mega Evolve again (I wouldn't put it past them to do so), then it'll be even worse. That being said, if the Weather Trio were always planned to be in Sword and Shield, I think that they should have been available in the main games rather than being shoved into the dens in the Crown Tundra expansion as a possible explanation of the Wild Area's ever-changing weather.
  • The Kami Trio: This breaks the game balance principle, especially Landorus-T. Similar to the Weather Trio, I feel like they should have been in the main game as being tied to the Wild Area's ever-changing weather system if they were going to be in no matter what. It's a wasted opportunity if you ask me.
  • Heatran: This species makes it habitat in volcanic areas, so seeing it in a tundra setting is a little out-of-place. However, I just discovered that some tundras actually come about because of volcanoes. Still, the Crown Tundra in particular is a pretty snowy place, so I still say that Heatran doesn't make much sense being there. Maybe if Dynamax Adventures had an area deep enough for some sort of magma present and Heatran was exclusive to that I'd be more okay with it being there. I doubt Game Freak thought that far ahead though.
  • Cresselia: This Pokémon isn't bad in itself; I just don't get why it would be in a tundra. Yet again, it does live in Sinnoh which is kind of similar to a tundra and it roamed all around that region, so maybe I'm just being picky here. It doesn't help that it's counterpart in the mythical Darkrai is absent from the game if the Crown Tundra datamine is any indication, making Cresselia's inclusion even more pointless.
  • The Kantonian Legendary Birds: We already have Galarian forms of the legendary birds available for us to catch: making the original versions of said birds outright catchable in the same expansion kind of defeats the purpose of said bird trio having regional variants in the first place. It would be fine if they were part of a limited-time raid event, but the way this was handled kind of ruins the worlds building: might as well make them simple form changes at that point. Maybe that'll be the plot twist about their lore; who knows? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm fine with the other Legendary Pokémon being there, as some of them even make sense given Galar's ecosystem. However, there's no denying that the only reason every legend got stuffed into the Crown Tundra (at least the ones that are a part of Dynamax Adventures) was strictly for marketing purposes in lieu of actually having a reason to be there. It is kind of a shame since it takes away the chances of other Pokémon that would actually fit the region (or at least the Crown Tundra) to get in. I will give them credit where it's due for at least giving a few of the old legendaries a proper reason to be present.
 
20200929_155647.jpg
I went in with a expecting nothing in particular, but damn they didn't reveal much.
There was also a roaming g-articuno, that's interesting
 
Mostly very excited by all the news but one thing that stood out to me as disappointing is that the legendaries are going to be version exclusive again like they were with USUM. I really hope there will be events to get all the opposite version exclusives, cause TATBs for Dex purposes are really lame to me.
 
Honestly can't wait* for the next title to be revealed. We all kind of knew what to expect. Although it seems a new expansion pass is a bit unlikely now. I hope the 2021 title will make sure all Pokémon are available in gen 8 games.

*Obviously hyperbole, functioning just fine.
 
Okay, I just want to get this off my chest: having every single legendary brought back in the Crown Tundra isn't the best idea in the context of Dexit. I don't mind some of the legendries coming back as
  1. Game Freak needs to make Dynamax Adventures somewhat more compelling and
  2. Pokémon like the Regis and the Legendary Birds are actually getting new lore in the Crown Tundra, which is kind of something I've wanted previous games to do for past legendaries that debuted in different regions anyways.
That being said, this kind of goes against several points of cited for Game Freak undergoing Dexit in the first place: game balance and wanting to focus on Pokémon that actually fit the region. Unless Game Freak nerfs a good portion of the legendary Pokémon (especially previous box legends), the first reason is definitely broken (though some argue that Dynamax itself already destroyed game balance from the get-go). As for Pokémon that actually fit the region, quite a few of the legendaries seem out of place in Galar:
  • The Tapu Quartet; They're guardian spirits of the Alolan islands, so see them somewhere else was going to feel awkward regardless. Pushing that aside, being in a tundra is practically the opposite of a tropical climate. I barely give them a pass to due to debuting in the previous generation. If anything, I think the correct time for them to be brought back would have been back in the Isle of Armor. It fits with Mustard taking influence from foreign cultures and could maybe provide Kubfu/Urshifu an obstacle to overcome as part of its growth.
  • The Weather Trio: Regardless of the presence or absence of Primal Reversion and Mega Evolution, bringing them back in the generation after Mega Evolution got removed is a painful reminder of how Game Freak likes to introduce and then throw away certain features regardless of how popular it may be. If they end up giving these forms back to them without allowing the other capable Pokémon the opportunity to Mega Evolve again (I wouldn't put it past them to do so), then it'll be even worse. That being said, if the Weather Trio were always planned to be in Sword and Shield, I think that they should have been available in the main games rather than being shoved into the dens in the Crown Tundra expansion as a possible explanation of the Wild Area's ever-changing weather.
  • The Kami Trio: This breaks the game balance principle, especially Landorus-T. Similar to the Weather Trio, I feel like they should have been in the main game as being tied to the Wild Area's ever-changing weather system if they were going to be in no matter what. It's a wasted opportunity if you ask me.
  • Heatran: This species makes it habitat in volcanic areas, so seeing it in a tundra setting is a little out-of-place. However, I just discovered that some tundras actually come about because of volcanoes. Still, the Crown Tundra in particular is a pretty snowy place, so I still say that Heatran doesn't make much sense being there. Maybe if Dynamax Adventures had an area deep enough for some sort of magma present and Heatran was exclusive to that I'd be more okay with it being there. I doubt Game Freak thought that far ahead though.
  • Cresselia: This Pokémon isn't bad in itself; I just don't get why it would be in a tundra. Yet again, it does live in Sinnoh which is kind of similar to a tundra and it roamed all around that region, so maybe I'm just being picky here. It doesn't help that it's counterpart in the mythical Darkrai is absent from the game if the Crown Tundra datamine is any indication, making Cresselia's inclusion even more pointless.
  • The Kantonian Legendary Birds: We already have Galarian forms of the legendary birds available for us to catch: making the original versions of said birds outright catchable in the same expansion kind of defeats the purpose of said bird trio having regional variants in the first place. It would be fine if they were part of a limited-time raid event, but the way this was handled kind of ruins the worlds building: might as well make them simple form changes at that point. Maybe that'll be the plot twist about their lore; who knows? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I'm fine with the other Legendary Pokémon being there, as some of them even make sense given Galar's ecosystem. However, there's no denying that the only reason every legend got stuffed into the Crown Tundra (at least the ones that are a part of Dynamax Adventures) was strictly for marketing purposes in lieu of actually having a reason to be there. It is kind of a shame since it takes away the chances of other Pokémon that would actually fit the region (or at least the Crown Tundra) to get in. I will give them credit where it's due for at least giving a few of the old legendaries a proper reason to be present.

I mean, based on the datamine, the Pokémon that will remain left out after the Crown Tundra are:

Weedle line
Pidgey line
Rattata line
Spearow line
Ekans line
Paras line
Venonat line
Mankey line
Bellsprout line
Geodude line
Doduo line
Seel line
Grimer line
Drowzee line
Voltorb line

Chikorita line
Cyndaquil line
Totodile line
Sentret line
Ledyba line
Spinarak line
Mareep line
Hoppip line
Aipom line
Sunkern line
Yanma line
Murkrow line
Misdreavus line
Unown
Girafarig
Pineco line
Gligar line
Snubbull line
Teddiursa line
Slugma line
Houndour line
Phanpy line
Stantler
Smeargle

Poochyena line
Wurmple line
Taillow line
Surskit line
Shroomish line
Slakoth line
Makuhita line
Nosepass line
Skitty line
Meditite line
Plusle and Minun
Volbeat and Illumise
Gulpin line
Numel line
Spoink line
Spinda
Cacnea line
Zangoose
Seviper
Castform
Kecleon
Shuppet line
Tropius
Chingling line
Clamperl line
Luvdisc

Turtwig line
Chimchar line
Piplup line
Starly line
Bidoof line
Kricketot line
Cranidos line
Shieldon line
Burmy line
Pachirisu
Buizel line
Glameow line
Chatot
Carnivine
Finneon line
Phione and Manaphy
Darkrai
Shaymin
Arceus

Snivy line
Tepig line
Oshawott line
Patrat line
Pansage line
Pansear line
Panpour line
Blitzle line
Sewaddle line
Ducklett line
Deerling line
Alomomola
Tynamo line
Meloetta

Chespin line
Fennekin line
Froakie line
Scatterbug line
Litleo line
Flabébé line
Skiddo line
Furfrou
Hoopa

Pikipek line
Yungoos line
Crabrawler line
Oricorio
Minior
Komala
Bruxish

I think at that point, we're kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel. Are there Pokémon in that list that I wish they would bring back? Certainly. But I also think that any justification for how a given Pokémon in that list fits the region is going to be a bit strained, or thin enough to the point where you could just as easily argue in favor of a different Pokémon. (Although I think that the "fitting the setting" reasoning prrrobably applied more to the Pokémon they were selecting for the base game, anyway. I would expect that more thought is going to go into the task of picking a core set of ~400 from a pool of 800, than will go into picking an extra 200 more to throw in as a bonus.)

Besides, I think the Legendaries are meant to be an exception, given that they're essentially just fun prizes that appear in some random cave. It is that very quality of extraneity and detachment from the rest of the region that excuses them from the usual considerations of "fitting the setting." They'll justify the birds and the Regis because they actually are a part of the Galar setting, roaming the tundra or sealed away in old ruins.

And as far as balance goes, I'm still not convinced that a hyper-offensive meta based on centralizing Legendaries isn't what Game Freak want.
 
I think LGPE are pretty clearly an aberrant GO tie-in rather than a formula for the future. Remakes in the traditional style would still want to be largely compatible with the base games of the generation. And Dexit shouldn't be an issue because they can just make a patch, as they've done with the new and old Pokémon that have been added in the DLC. Regardless of whether you bought the pass, you still get a free update to make all of that content compatible. The only reason they wouldn't do this is if DP remakes run on a fundamentally different engine from SwSh.

Anyway, I do think @nickdt is right in that the release of a bundle pack greatly indicates that there's no more Galar DLC to come. In terms of the release schedule, you can think of it as comparable to USUM. So to me, that leaves just one question - is there going to be another Gen 8 game, or are we now awaiting Gen 9?

It wouldn't exactly surprise me if SwSh + DLC is all we got. Again, making the comparison to USUM, this would be like how Gens 5 and 6 only had two major releases, and how Gen 7 may as well have since Let's Go was more of its own thing. This would probably make it more feasible for them to get Gen 9 (which they are almost certainly working on right now) out in 2022, if they want to keep the three-year cycle.

But of course, it hasn't always been a three-year cycle. In two instances, it was stretched to four. If they aren't planning to put Gen 9 out until 2023, then I could see Sinnoh remakes coming out in 2021 or 2022. With more Galar content pretty much ruled out, that feels like the only real option left, especially considering some of the Pokémon that still remain Dexited even after the Crown Tundra. Whatever the case may be, I feel like there must be a break year in there somewhere, whether that's firmly next year before Gen 9 in 2022, or whichever year between now and 2023 isn't populated by either Sinnoh or Gen 9.

(Oh, not to rehash the whole tired debate of "Is Let's Go Gen 7 or 8?", but I wonder if perhaps it would make more sense to group LGPE, SwSh, and the DLC together as a cluster of Nintendo Switch-based projects, from a production point of view. Keep in mind that "generations" aren't actually a very formally defined thing. We know roughly how Game Freak's process works - the experienced developers begin work on a new generation almost as soon as the newest one begins, and in the meantime, the less-experienced developers work on smaller projects like remakes or enhanced versions in order to fill their time while they're not needed on the core project. From this angle, I don't think that LGPE had much, developmentally speaking, to do with "Gen 7," which I use here as shorthand to refer to a specific allocation of 3DS-based development. In fact, it was LGPE and SwSh that shared overlap in the way that you would expect a primary pair and a remake/enhanced version to. Here is an excerpt from an interview with Masuda and Ohmori:

> Pokemon.com: The development of these games must have overlapped with Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee! quite a bit. What did you learn about Nintendo Switch development from those games that you were able to carry over to Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield?

> Mr. Ohmori: Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee! were developed at the same time as Pokémon Sword and Pokémon Shield, and the two teams collaborated heavily. With Pokémon: Let's Go, Pikachu! and Pokémon: Let's Go, Eevee!, we were able to create the core systems that form the base for our development on Nintendo Switch.

Suffice it to say that on a technical level, LGPE had a whole lot more to do with Gen 8 than they did with Gen 7. Which to me sort of goes without saying, because arbitrary criteria like "Are there new Starters? A new professor? etc." just don't really affect peoples' work priorities like the fundamental question of "Which console are we developing for?" does. In that regard, it may be instructive to imagine this hypothetical scenario:

GBA development phase - RS, FRLG, Emerald
DS development phase 1 - DP, Platinum, HGSS
DS development phase 2 - BW, B2W2
3DS development phase 1 - XY, ORAS
3DS development phase 2 - SM, USUM
Switch development phase 1 - SwSh, Isle/Tundra, LGPE
Switch development phase 2 - Gen 9, blahblah, maybe Sinnoh?

... except LGPE are front-loaded to the beginning of the Switch development phase, for a variety of reasons. Again, this isn't to pedantically contend that LGPE are "actually Gen 8," but rather to suggest that they might've already filled the role in this development period that people are expecting DP remakes to do, and that we might actually be closer to Gen 9 than we think.)

Also, with the two horses that fuse with Calyrex, we will be up to 898 Pokémon this gen. If they add one more Mythical next year via a free update, then that would bring us up to 899 (and in that case, Gen 8's Mythical "trio" might as well be Meltan/Melmetal which, incidentally, does have a G-Max form; Zarude, and then the next one) - and wouldn't it be cute to start Gen 9 with Pokémon #900?
Se should also consider since Dilaga and Palkia are catachable in this expansion pass that may mean no remakes at all for them this gen.
 
I liked how the music video implied that the canonical choice of Hop's Starter is Grookey, the player character's is Scorbunny, and Leon was left with Sobble. I was having a hard time making my own Starter headcanons since I felt Hop could have any of them, but seeing as how I love Scorbunny, it works out.

If Galarian Slowking's Eerie Medicine resets self-inflicted stat drops (such as from Overheat or Draco Meteor), I am positive it will become a VGC staple.
 
In terms of what we would get, I wouldn't be surprised if we do see Sinnoh with Dynamax this generation. Game Freak is known to reuse a gimmick in the same generation just as long as the games are traditional style. Despite Mega Evolution originating in Kalos, ORAS completely disregarded that part of the lore and basically told us the Mega Stones came from meteors rather than the energy from the Ultimate Weapon being absorbed into the stones.
 
Please note: The thread is from 3 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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