Team Flare Discussion/Speculation

[Team Gaara]

We don't know what they'll do to make money or how they'll plan to make the world beautiful. I wouldn't write them out as underwhelming, yet. Plus, just look at the scientists; they just look so creepy.

Also, Team Magma used Dark, Poison, and Ground-types more so than Fire-types (as mentioned, only Numel). The only real connection Team Magma had to fire was the name.

 

[MissingNo. 1]

Okay, so it seems like Team Flare's only goal is to make money, which seems to have very little to do with the legendary Pokemon of Generation VI. But I can't help but feel that the villainous team will just have to be connected to the legendary mascots. After all, aside from the whole becoming-the-champion thing, Pokemon games seem to have one major plot that seems to revolve around the villainous teams that tie in with the legendary Pokemon (except for Generations I and II of course, but then again they didn't really have much of a plot at all). Adaptations from those games even added more to the plot that made the villainous teams be relevant to legendary Pokemon of that generation. Well anyways, I'm just gonna come up with a crackpot theory, if any of you don't mind.

I'm gonna predict that the boss of Team Flare tells his minions to make as much money as possible, but his real intentions involve using that money to capture the legendary mascot of whatever game is being played. The boss's real intentions aren't revealed until the climax of the game. Then the hero steps in, captures/defeats the mascot and saves the day. Then in the sequel, which is XZ and YZ, the former boss of Team Flare gathers a new batch of minions, this time more about genetics (after all, Generation VI is known as the genetic generation, I'm not sure why it wasn't expanded upon earlier) and this time his goal is to do something with Zygarde that involves making it more powerful (and probably combined with Xerneas/Yveltal, probably, similar to Kyurem). Idk, just making up a theory here.

EDIT:

Spoiler

Pokemon X & Y Final Team Flare Leader Battle Gameplay! (Spoilers) - YouTube
So it turns out that Team Flare is involved with the legendary Pokemon after all...

 

[Necrozma]

So Lysandre is aware that humans and Pokémon have helped each other flourish, and that they're great partners and that Pokémon are wondrous beings but he also realizes that that will inevitably lead to Pokémon simply becoming human tools of war and theft. So he's choosing to kill all the Pokémon for the sake of a better tomorrow? What? Lysandre wants to create an ideal world, without conflict or theft, without war or fighting. So he'll kill everyone he needs to kill for the sake of this world of his. Wow.

Definitely not a childish plot.

Lysandre actually cries before saying all Pokémon will perish.

 

[The Outrage]

So Lysandre is aware that humans and Pokémon have helped each other flourish, and that they're great partners and that Pokémon are wondrous beings but he also realizes that that will inevitably lead to Pokémon simply becoming human tools of war and theft. So he's choosing to kill all the Pokémon for the sake of a better tomorrow? What? Lysandre wants to create an ideal world, without conflict or theft, without war or fighting. So he'll kill everyone he needs to kill for the sake of this world of his. Wow.

Definitely not a childish plot.

Not sure if the last part was sarcasm or not, but it seems pretty childish to go "If we can't play nice with Pokemon, then no one can play with Pokemon!" *kills pokemon*

Honestly, this seems like a mixture of Cyrus and N but the worst possible combination. Cyrus comes to the conclusion that emotions lead to all strife and conflict in the world so he aims to rid the universe of emotion. Obviously the only way he could do that is to rewrite how the universe works and his universe-destroying plot is only incidental to his final goal. N had initially viewed humans as abusers of Pokemon, and sought to resolve this problem by separating humans and Pokemon.

Then we have Lysandre going "Pokémon can be used as tools of war! So we'll kill all Pokemon!".....what. You didn't actually fix anything considering that Pokemon could be one of many tools of war. I'm certain as long as people want to kill themselves, they'll find a way.

I don't know, if that's his plot, he sounds like a worse Cyrus (worse, as in, the set up is worse). I guess its okay because he cries at the end?

But I heard that in X Lysandre was trying to become immortal? How does this fit in with the story at all?

 

[Necrozma]

Not sure if the last part was sarcasm or not, but it seems pretty childish to go "If we can't play nice with Pokemon, then no one can play with Pokemon!" *kills pokemon*

Honestly, this seems like a mixture of Cyrus and N but the worst possible combination. Cyrus comes to the conclusion that emotions lead to all strife and conflict in the world so he aims to rid the universe of emotion. Obviously the only way he could do that is to rewrite how the universe works and his universe-destroying plot is only incidental to his final goal. N had initially viewed humans as abusers of Pokemon, and sought to resolve this problem by separating humans and Pokemon.

Then we have Lysandre going "Pokémon can be used as tools of war! So we'll kill all Pokemon!".....what. You didn't actually fix anything considering that Pokemon could be one of many tools of war. I'm certain as long as people want to kill themselves, they'll find a way.

I don't know, if that's his plot, he sounds like a worse Cyrus (worse, as in, his story is worse).

But I heard that in X Lysandre was trying to become immortal? How does this fit in with the story at all?

I missed some of the dialogue, check it for yourself here.

He starts talking that stuff around 4:37

 

[The Outrage]

I missed some of the dialogue, check it for yourself here.

He starts talking that stuff around 4:37

I still think Cyrus had the better idea....but then again Lysandre didn't have universe-altering Pokemon at his disposal.

On a non-Lysandre note, how many admins does this team have? Xerosic, the four women (who I've heard nothing about) and now baldy and another female?

 

[Necrozma]

I missed some of the dialogue, check it for yourself here.

He starts talking that stuff around 4:37

I still think Cyrus had the better idea....but then again Lysandre didn't have universe-altering Pokemon at his disposal.

On a non-Lysandre note, how many admins does this team have? Xerosic, the four women (who I've heard nothing about) and now baldy and another female?

Well those four women all have names so I guess they have higher ranks, the another female and the bald guy seems to be regular admins with no real names.

 

[Shadow Rush]

So Lysandre is aware that humans and Pokémon have helped each other flourish, and that they're great partners and that Pokémon are wondrous beings but he also realizes that that will inevitably lead to Pokémon simply becoming human tools of war and theft. So he's choosing to kill all the Pokémon for the sake of a better tomorrow? What? Lysandre wants to create an ideal world, without conflict or theft, without war or fighting. So he'll kill everyone he needs to kill for the sake of this world of his. Wow.

Definitely not a childish plot.

Lysandre actually cries before saying all Pokémon will perish.

He is obviously targeting the wrong "enemy". Mankind is the cause of ruin not pokemon. Similar to our world, we cause not only our own demise but the plant's and all of its inhabitants. It would be a better plot if he were trying to change human genetics for the better by force instead of committing a mass eradication.

The motif is strong but the choice of direction is weak.

 

[Almonds]

So Lysandre is aware that humans and Pokémon have helped each other flourish, and that they're great partners and that Pokémon are wondrous beings but he also realizes that that will inevitably lead to Pokémon simply becoming human tools of war and theft. So he's choosing to kill all the Pokémon for the sake of a better tomorrow? What? Lysandre wants to create an ideal world, without conflict or theft, without war or fighting. So he'll kill everyone he needs to kill for the sake of this world of his. Wow.

Definitely not a childish plot.

Lysandre actually cries before saying all Pokémon will perish.

He is obviously targeting the wrong "enemy". Mankind is the cause of ruin not pokemon. Similar to our world, we cause not only our own demise but the plant's and all of its inhabitants. It would be a better plot if he were trying to change human genetics for the better by force instead of committing a mass eradication.

The motif is strong but the choice of direction is weak.

It seems to me they're strengthening some points of what Team Plasma left off in BW - in a wrong way. Remember how N wanted to separate Pokemon from Humans so they wouldn't suffer? and here we have a group that wants to eliminate all pokemons for world peace.

 

[Shadow Rush]

So Lysandre is aware that humans and Pokémon have helped each other flourish, and that they're great partners and that Pokémon are wondrous beings but he also realizes that that will inevitably lead to Pokémon simply becoming human tools of war and theft. So he's choosing to kill all the Pokémon for the sake of a better tomorrow? What? Lysandre wants to create an ideal world, without conflict or theft, without war or fighting. So he'll kill everyone he needs to kill for the sake of this world of his. Wow.

Definitely not a childish plot.

Lysandre actually cries before saying all Pokémon will perish.

He is obviously targeting the wrong "enemy". Mankind is the cause of ruin not pokemon. Similar to our world, we cause not only our own demise but the plant's and all of its inhabitants. It would be a better plot if he were trying to change human genetics for the better by force instead of committing a mass eradication.

The motif is strong but the choice of direction is weak.

It seems to me they're strengthening some points of what Team Plasma left off in BW - in a wrong way. Remember how N wanted to separate Pokemon from Humans so they wouldn't suffer? and here we have a group that wants to eliminate all pokemons for world peace.

But what would that achieve? That is the same as saying, "lets remove all species of sharks from the ocean because their mindless maneaters". It would cause a major disruption in the ecosystem. Then again, GF may have done this intentionally to make the fans think and debate?

 

[The Outrage]

But what would that achieve? That is the same as saying, "lets remove all species of sharks from the ocean because their mindless maneaters". It would cause a major disruption in the ecosystem. Then again, GF may have done this intentionally to make the fans think and debate?

It's not even saying that. Lysandre acknowledges that Pokemon would be used as weapons by humans. This means he knows that it is human nature that results in violence, so to stop it, he gets rid of all those "weapons". He's trying to achieve peace for humans, whereas N was trying to achieve peace for Pokemon. Lysandre's plot is almost as bad as what Team Aqua and Plasma were trying to do considering there will still be weapons after Pokemon are gone.

This is why I think both Cyrus and Nobunaga were better villains with good intentions. Cyrus decided to rewrite reality to get rid of the one human aspect he believed caused strife and conflict (technically everyone dies, but at least he makes sure to attack the root of the problem). Nobunaga went after the equivalent of a god in order to defeat it, so that people would no longer start wars to claim this power (though Hideyosi's story winds up resolving this better by pretending that there was no legendary). Both Cyrus and Nobunaga attack the root of the problem. Even N attacks the root of what he believes causes Pokemon suffering by separating humans and Pokemon (too bad it winds up backfiring as he was a pawn of Ghetsis).

Lysandre? He sees that humans would use Pokemon as weapons, and orchestrate their mass destruction as if humans can't create weapons in the absence of Pokemon.

I'm glad they aren't so simple, but the plot's been done many times before (a villain with sympathetic goals, but the means to the ends is something you cannot condone), and done better.

 

[Shadow Rush]

But what would that achieve? That is the same as saying, "lets remove all species of sharks from the ocean because their mindless maneaters". It would cause a major disruption in the ecosystem. Then again, GF may have done this intentionally to make the fans think and debate?

It's not even saying that. Lysandre acknowledges that Pokemon would be used as weapons by humans. This means he knows that it is human nature that results in violence, so to stop it, he gets rid of all those "weapons". He's trying to achieve peace for humans, whereas N was trying to achieve peace for Pokemon. Lysandre's plot is almost as bad as what Team Aqua and Plasma were trying to do considering there will still be weapons after Pokemon are gone.

This is why I think both Cyrus and Nobunaga were better villains with good intentions. Cyrus decided to rewrite reality to get rid of the one human aspect he believed caused strife and conflict (technically everyone dies, but at least he makes sure to attack the root of the problem). Nobunaga went after the equivalent of a god in order to defeat it, so that people would no longer start wars to claim this power (though Hideyosi's story winds up resolving this better by pretending that there was no legendary). Both Cyrus and Nobunaga attack the root of the problem. Even N attacks the root of what he believes causes Pokemon suffering by separating humans and Pokemon (too bad it winds up backfiring as he was a pawn of Ghetsis).

Lysandre? He sees that humans would use Pokemon as weapons, and orchestrate their mass destruction as if humans can't create weapons in the absence of Pokemon.

I'm glad they aren't so simple, but the plot's been done many times before (a villain with sympathetic goals, but the means to the ends is something you cannot condone), and done better.

Would it not have been simpler to somehow control the populace's thoughts and emotions?

Also, off-topic, what was Cipher's core goal (during and before XD)? It seemed vague asides from an inhumane way of conducting experimentations on pokemon for absolute obedience and more power.

 

[Rocket Boss Alessandro]

Man, was Team Flare an odd one.

You get a strong feeling that the majority of the grunts had no idea what was going on or what they were actually fighting for. They just wanted to follow the popular crowd and were charmed by Lysandre. The rest probably read the lines "Take whatever we want to ensure we survive" and decided they were a classy goon squad.

Lysandre is right. Over population and resource consumption is a problem we face in the world today, and it's one that has no clear or easy solution. Lysandre just decided to make it blunt and hard reset the population growth a few centuries.

Though I don't particularly agree with his reasons for desiring the death of all pokemon (with the tech they have, no pokemon doesn't= no weapons). I find it pretty enjoyable after Black and White (Raising the morals of owning Pokemon and making them battle) turn 180 and ask why we're even allowing creatures so dangerous to exist in the first place.

In reality, humanity enjoys a seat at the top of the food chain. In the pokemon world, humans don't even come close. The most common pokemon (say, a Rattata) can take a hyper fang chunk out of your leg and grievously wound you.
Technology, our tools, give us the edge in the real world. In the Pokemon one, they have monsters that can shoot electricity, beams of light, and fire. Not even mentioning pokemon like Porygon and Rotom that would turn our tech against us.

Let's face it, humanity would be reduced to a few pockets of survivors if Pokemon put us on the dinner menu.

Remember Hypno and the child abductions? Yeah, I can't really blame Lysandre for trying to take Pokemon out of the picture.

 

[Necrozma]

It's not just the Pokémon he's trying to take out either, he wants to reduce a number of living things overall, not just Pokémon but humans as well. Basically, only those who join Team Flare will stay in the new, "ideal" world. Lysandre does bring up a fair point about limited resources and how that WILL eventually lead to conflicts and war in the world, but his way of thinking is simply messed up ... as is with most villains, I have to say. He's like too pessimistic, he says this line when the PC defeats him:

"The strength to protect, huh? But what are you really protecting? A tomorrow that will only end up being worse than today?"

 

[Capricious Equilibrium]

Yeah. Funnier than other teams? Pokemon Genocide and mass culling of humanity? Real funny.

Seriously though, I have a feeling that N and Lysandre would not be friends.

However, I love that its reflecting our own world. Over population is so much of a problem, China(?) has a restriction on how much children one can have.

 

[Mielikki]

Seriously though, I have a feeling that N and Lysandre would not be friends.

.

Why not? N takes all Pokémon to safety without people and Lysandre would then kill most of the human population. Both sides would be happy.

Anyway I think that eliminating the population was for him more important than killing Pokémon. And he didn't seem so happy about this but he couldn't find another solution than this one to accomplish that. And what has happened to him then? Did I get right that he committed suicide in a very magnificient way?

I am also really curious about what were the differences with X.

 

[Necrozma]

Why not? N takes all Pokémon to safety without people and Lysandre would then kill most of the human population. Both sides would be happy.

Anyway I think that eliminating the population was for him more important than killing Pokémon.

He explicitly says all Pokémon would be gone, vanish, be no longer with them.

 

[Mielikki]

Why not? N takes all Pokémon to safety without people and Lysandre would then kill most of the human population. Both sides would be happy.

Anyway I think that eliminating the population was for him more important than killing Pokémon.

He explicitly says all Pokémon would be gone, vanish, be no longer with them.

I know. But in order to keep them away from people who could commit crimes with their assistance. I believe if N took them away from people he wouldn't mind. In case he would be ensured that people and Pokémon would never meet.

 

[Dr. Buni]

I am currently in the climax of the game and while the pacing of the story is hideous, the story itself is way better than the story of BW. It is more like the story of older Pokémon. By that, I mean that the story doesn't try too hard to be epic like in BW. The Team Flare plot was quite nice and I enjoyed Lysandre's character. The whole "beauty" thingy appealed to me because beauty is something essential to me, as shallow as that might sound. I am yet to finish the game, but I'd say Team Flare is my new favorite evil team, surpassing Team Galactic which was my favorite team before XY. Team Flare > Team Galactic > Team Plasma > Team Rocket > Team Aqua/Magma imo. Also, whoever said Team Flare would be a funnier team compared to previous one is clearly insane. There is nothing funny about them, besides their outfit and poses.

 

[Xita]

Team Flare's plot wasn't very good imo. It's really disappointing after BW's was soooo good. A big part of why BW1 remains my favorite game of the series.