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The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a compe

BulbaBot

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The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a competitive player

What Pokémon have been left in the dust? Which ones have been unable to adjust to all the changes the battling world has undergone recently? Who is the Biggest Loser, and what does it say about the metagame? In this article, I will attempt to pick out the top five Pokémon, both old and new, most deserving of the title "The Biggest Loser".

Read more on Bulbanews
 

RebornRocks

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Bulbabot, stop posting twice!
 

Sapphire

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

I loved this article. It is very true in my opinion...It makes me sad I can't use Charizard...
:'(
 

pikawesome-o

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

lol you told a bot off :p
 

Falconwing

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Eh, Giratina wasn't very fair, considering that most battles take place on wifi and Origin forme is banned on wifi.
 

Ranger Jack Walker

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Sceptile still does really well in uu and ou.

Then again, how much would I know? :p
 

Daxdiv

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Interesting read. I do agree with how Alakazam, anything weak to rock, and Sceptile. I kind of ignored walls mostly due to how I mostly play an offensive game. As for the DP additions, never really cared for any of them, except for Weavile, and I do agree that Wealive does need a better STAB physical attack.
 

Falconwing

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Ice Punch and Night Slash aren't good enough? They've worked for me.
 

pikawesome-o

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

can i stil use gardavar?
 

F-22

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Eh, Giratina wasn't very fair, considering that most battles take place on wifi and Origin forme is banned on wifi.
This is true, but the difference in other avenues is simply too significant to ignore, such as on battle simulators, local tournaments, etc. Also, most competitive players (at least, Western ones) use battle simulators. When given the choice, it is pretty clear that most players will pick the Origin form.

Sceptile still does really well in uu and ou.

Then again, how much would I know? :p
Eh, not really. As I mentioned, Venusaur and Celebi do the job better in their respective tiers. Note that I didn't mean to pick things that are completely useless nowadays, but Sceptile's usefulness has significantly declined and its speed niche doesn't matter terribly much given how many things use Scarf now.

Interesting read. I do agree with how Alakazam, anything weak to rock, and Sceptile. I kind of ignored walls mostly due to how I mostly play an offensive game. As for the DP additions, never really cared for any of them, except for Weavile, and I do agree that Wealive does need a better STAB physical attack.
Hence why I included walls. I probably didn't stress enough how bloody offensive this metagame is, but that's how I think the 4th gen will be remembered. Stall is still good, but it's far less defensive than any other previous gen.
 

Magnagarde

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Eh, Giratina wasn't very fair, considering that most battles take place on wifi and Origin forme is banned on wifi.
I was just a bout to say that. Anyways, an interesting read, I disagree with Cress, though. I know someone who uses Cress quite well.
 

Regiruler

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Giratina altered? Really? It works very well as a wall and is still in uber if I remember.
 

Ranger Jack Walker

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

@I am not a he Well yeah, its served me well but I'm new and not experienced. So yeah. :p
 

rockersk08

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

I'm not an experienced competitive battler (Despite my new cable Internet, I still can't get online for HG/SS.), but I personally have issues with this article. I disagree with Alakazam being shafted because it can still provide adequate special cover with Energy/Shadow Ball, something I like to have. Sceptile is still useful with Energy Ball though. Electivire at least can use Ice Punch on Ground. I like the Stealth Rock part though.

I know that there are instances where a Pokémon has to face off against a superior opponent, but that should be a last resort unless you like challenges. I favor attack versatility, but learning about advanced combinations is still needed.
 

AuraSoul93

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

I find it a bit odd that they don't mention how Infernape basically replaced Blaziken as the prominent Fire/Fighting Pokemon...
 

F-22

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

I'm not an experienced competitive battler (Despite my new cable Internet, I still can't get online for HG/SS.), but I personally have issues with this article. I disagree with Alakazam being shafted because it can still provide adequate special cover with Energy/Shadow Ball, something I like to have. Sceptile is still useful with Energy Ball though. Electivire at least can use Ice Punch on Ground. I like the Stealth Rock part though.
We have a steel centered metagame. Neither of those are going to help Zam. More often than not, you're going to run HP Fire/Focus Blast for coverage which isn't very good. Zam doesn't have the same effect anymore; before it would be "OMGZ!" because it was this fast, powerful special attacker when now a lot of things wall it and people spam priority and Choice Scarf so its fragility has finally caught up with it.

I find it a bit odd that they don't mention how Infernape basically replaced Blaziken as the prominent Fire/Fighting Pokemon...
Easy. Because Blaziken was never terribly popular, even in ADV. Its speed was an issue then and it's an issue now. It could beat SkarmBliss, but a good portion of the metagame beat Blaziken. Honestly, its role was more comparable to Heatran than Infernape because it was "anti-metagame". And unlike Sceptile, who had legitimate pluses over Celebi and was extremely popular in the 200 metagame where it had no compare, Blaziken faced stiff competition from Heracross for the role of a Fighting type. Fire wasn't as essential as it is now, where Ape indeed excels.

I do agree though, that I probably should have made it an honorable mention because even in UU it's semi-obscure. To go from threat to nigh non-factor (at least as far as standard is concerned) is a pretty big fall.
 
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rockersk08

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Seeing as Steel is a strong defense, I can see why people would focus on it. Like I said, I don't have much competitive battle experience. I don't even utilize HP to be honest. It looks like versatility is no longer that viable. What ever happened to just having a balanced team with decent straightforward moves? It reminds me of how much the Yu-Gi-Oh TCG has changed. I'll still play though.

By the way, would you be willing to check out my team(s)? I keep them on my Bulbapedia subpage.
 

Synthesis

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Excellent article, although Charizard really deserved a mention. Rocks screwed it over big time and essentially eliminated Belly Drum sets.
 

Daxdiv

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

Ice Punch and Night Slash aren't good enough? They've worked for me.
Night Slash is good, if only for the increased Critical Hit Ratio. Though I do think they might need to have some beefier attacks next gen for Dark Types. I think I might have read too much into the whole, Ice Punch barely beats out Return on Weavile. But Weavile does kind of lack the physical version of Ice Beam and Blizzard as far as Ice Type attacks goes.

Hence why I included walls. I probably didn't stress enough how bloody offensive this metagame is, but that's how I think the 4th gen will be remembered. Stall is still good, but it's far less defensive than any other previous gen.
I can see why. I think when I faced one of my friends that relied to defense, my team of speedy and strong Pokémon were able to take him out. I even prevented a Toxic Spikes being played down in another fight I had. But yeah, I do agree that the decline in walls did have something to do with the Physical/Special split more than anything else, considering I can have a mixed Infernape to counter Skarmbliss in a theoretical situation.
 

mikarugelord

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Re: The Biggest Loser: A Battler's Perspective: Thoughts on the generation gap by a c

I grudgingly agree with most of the points against Alakazam, but the argument of it being weaker because it could not get Aura Sphere or Vacuum Wave is just silly, when Aura Sphere is exclusive to Lucario/Togekiss/select Legendaries, and all of the Pokemon capable of using Vacuum Wave are Fighting type.
 
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