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The British National Party & Nick Griffin

Lexio
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Firstly, let it be said loud and clear. This is a debate on immigration and, to an extent, religion - not race. It's here in big letters for you to see.​



This man is Nick Griffin. He is the leader of the British National Party and is claimed to be 'the most loathed man in Britain.

He is a man who has aimed the BNP's traditional focus to race and immigration and, in a nutshell, to make Britain, Britain again and on multiple occasions has spoken about multiculturalism in the United Kingdom. The minority of the British Public oppose what he believes.

Griffin has frequently expressed views on Judaism, Islam and homosexuality. On 22nd October 2009, he appeared on QuestionTime (a popular political debate show on BBC1 in Britain), when, in so many words, he was ganged up on by the audience, panel and host.

But now, this is why I support Nick Griffin and then, if you could, I would like your opinion on his views too, regardless as to whether you are British or an immigrant.

- Griffin has been described on countless occassions as an Islamophobe, but with fair points to play. Everytime he is challenged on his belief of Islam, he always quotes the Qu'Ran, the Islamic holy book - a book that no Muslim could ever deny.

The Qu'Ran said:
If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them, then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them.
The Qu'Ran said:
O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: they are but friends and protectors to each other. And he among you that turns to them for friendship is of them.
The Qu'Ran said:
Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.
I don't think anyone, whether follower of Islam or not can deny their own holy book if they truly preach religion. It is these quotes (and more) that Griffin uses to reinforce himself with his arguments.

- Griffin has told people time and time again that he is not a homophobe, prior to having homosexual opinions. He believes:

Nick Griffin said:
I said that a lot of people find the sight of two grown men kissing in public really creepy. I understand that homosexuals don't understand that but that's how a lot of us feel, Christians feel that way, Muslims, all sorts of people.
Ironically, as a bisexual, I think he is completely right. In the sense that heterosexuals or else like himself, may well find homosexuals kissing or whatever creepy. As he said, it doesn't mean he is a homophobe. He has no problem with homosexuals or whatever, but as an honest person, I think we can accept and understand why some people would find it creepy. Had Griffin admitted being a homophobe, it would be a different matter, but he hasn't.

There are many many more points of the BNP to discuss, such as Griffin's apparent racial hatred and Holocaust denial, albeit, feel free to discuss them.

But the question is - if everybody believes Griffin to be 'the most loathed man in Britain', why is it he turned the BNP around and everybody is voting for him? Why is the percentage of votes always increasing?
 
Religion is a club
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Because sadly, bigotry is more prevalent than rational human beings would like to believe.
 
Head Bus Driver
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He seems to cross me as one of those people that really just do not know when to stop talking. Call it 'Joe Biden syndrome', they run at the mouth and believe everyone one is fine with what he is saying, when in reality he is hurting his own cause.

His views on Homosexuality seem to be no better than many have on those of different ethnicities kissing. Yes people can have a problem with it, and it may disgust the vast majority of people out there. But you shut up and move on with your life, its part of being a adult.

But back on topic, the one thing I see that he is some what right on ( no pun intended ), and from the sound of it he is the only one smart, or crazy enough to bring it up, is Islam in Britain. From a outsider's perspective Britain and Europe is having a quietly growing problem of Islamists and Radical Islamists moving into countries and refusing to assimilate into their culture. Like it or not eventually these cultures that are wildly different will eventually clash, be it with the rule of law, or the rights of women, or any number of different things.

I don't know much about British Politics, and like I said I am just a outsider that gets bits of information. As for why he is gaining ground, I dont know, some times it seems like Britain is heading for a culture clash and only a few people wish to speak out about it, out of fear of offending others.
 
Lexio
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Let it not be said - like any country, Britain has racism in it. Tonnes of it.

What Nick Griffin wants to do, is not stop immigration, but to cap it. No Briton can deny that immigration has gotten way out of control. How can you possibly fit 62 million + on our tiny isles?
 
Hψ=Eψ
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What Nick Griffin wants to do, is not stop immigration, but to cap it. No Briton can deny that immigration has gotten way out of control. How can you possibly fit 62 million + on our tiny isles?
Well, it's kinda sad that people listen to a guy that proposes to sink boats of illegal immigrants.

The party have previousle have had experiences with denying holocaust, saying that black (or nearly any other color than white) cannot be seen as original residents.

I don't think anyone, whether follower of Islam or not can deny their own holy book if they truly preach religion. It is these quotes (and more) that Griffin uses to reinforce himself with his arguments.
And any Christian should literally interpret the Bible. Surely you can find some pretty bad stuff there.

But the question is - if everybody believes Griffin to be 'the most loathed man in Britain', why is it he turned the BNP around and everybody is voting for him? Why is the percentage of votes always increasing?
Because he's a populist. He's riding a wave of far-right parties all over Europe with the fear of immigrants. You can see that everywhere in Europe now.
 
Religion is a club
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What Nick Griffin wants to do, is not stop immigration, but to cap it. No Briton can deny that immigration has gotten way out of control. How can you possibly fit 62 million + on our tiny isles?
The real question is, why would anybody want to move to Britain, besides Top Gear and Fish and Chips? :p

(For the record, I have British citizenship)
 
Simpler times ahead
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Isn't he the guy who said there are no black English citizens just white?
 
Lexio
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Well, it's kinda sad that people listen to a guy that proposes to sink boats of illegal immigrants.

The party have previousle have had experiences with denying holocaust, saying that black (or nearly any other color than white) cannot be seen as original residents.
That's because they are illegal immigrants, there is quite a big difference. The main difference being that illegal immigrants are far less welcome. Also, it's like saying a white person is an original resident in India. I can't really see that, to be blunt.

And I know that they had previous history denying the holocaust (or so it was said), but that's a totally different debate, feel free to raise it though if it floats.

And any Christian should literally interpret the Bible. Surely you can find some pretty bad stuff there.
If you find a page in the New or Old Testament telling you to stone women to death or kill anyone who isn't Christian, let me know. :eh:

Because he's a populist. He's riding a wave of far-right parties all over Europe with the fear of immigrants. You can see that everywhere in Europe now.
Exactly, so this is a problem that seemingly 'everywhere in Europe' agrees with - and wants to stop, hence the voting.
 
Check the YouTube :)
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I'd just like to voice my opinion.
I somewhat agree with his views on immigration, they makes sense.
The parallels between the BNP now and German politics pre-WWII are shocking though.
However, I'm sick of everyone ganging up on the BNP, like on Question Time.
We're all allowed to voice our opinions and a political party can have any agenda it wants..

Also Matchy, I'm afraid to say that in a book I recently finished (in which the author attempted to spend a year following the Bible's every law and code), it does point out the passage that was used as the inspiration for the Crusades. Although, it doesn't actually put it as simply as that, the whole "kill all non-Christians" spin was basically just somebody twisting the words to fit their own agenda.

Good idea for a thread =]
 
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Sheep Queen of Bulbagarden
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"...These people are in New England as an organized body, whose motto is Our Language, Our Faith, Our Culture". This body is ruled by a principle directly opposite to that which has made New england what it is. It depresses to the lowest point possible the idea of personal resonsibility and limits the freedom which it permits.

It is next to impossible to penetrate this mass of protected and secluded humanity with modern ideas or to induce them to interest themselves in democratic institutions and methods of government..."
Recent article? Nope, 115 years old New York Times article about French-Canadian immigration to New England. Pretty sure New England is not a French-Canadian overtaken society at this point.

People panicking about first-generation immigrants and their lack of assimilation is nothing new. It's happened with any and every significant wave of immigration throughout the entire history of mankind.

First generation immigrants rarely, if ever, assimilate (some individuals might, but groups don't). They stick to their own ways and their own kind. Their children are a little more assimilated; their grand-children a lot more assimilated. By the fourth or fifth generation, they're largely assimilated. It has always happened like this with immigrants.

I see no reason to assume the Muslim immigrants (or any other present-wave immigrants) are any different from the past ones.
Nothing new under the sun, really.
 
the future is not written
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At least Islam respects other religions.

If you find a page in the New or Old Testament telling you to stone women to death or kill anyone who isn't Christian, let me know. :eh:
The King James Bible; Leviticus 24 said:
16 And he that blasphemeth the name of The Lord, he shall certainly be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him: as well as the stranger, as he that is born in the land, when he blasphemeth the name of The Lord, shall be put to death.
It is highly Islamophobic to assume that all Muslims agree with the radicals. 99% of Muslims are against the radicals' policies.

I can find more quotes out of the Bible if you wish:

If you swear, this is your punishment:

The King James Bible; Leviticus 24 said:
14 Bring forth him that cursed without camp; and let all that heard him lay their hands upon his head, and let all the congregation stone him
Oh, and here's what happens if a woman loses her virginity before marriage:

The King James Bible; Deuteronomy 22 said:
20 But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel:
21 Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly on Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you.
Care for me to go on?
 
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追放されたバカ
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Long story short, the UK stole the crazy religiotards from us and hate Islam while ignoring the fact that its older cousins say the same bullshit.
 
Animal Carer
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I do not support the BNP not in any way shape or form, however that party has got two elected MEPs so it is right for the BBC to give them a chance to speak.
If they had been given a chance to speak properly they may well as sunk themselves, but as it is they are now going to play the sympathy card with a complaint to the BBC claiming it was little more than a lynch mob
once again i really cannot overemphasise the fact that i do not and will never support the BNP in any shape or form
 
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I wish one day everyone would just get along, and all this bullshit would end.
 
Hψ=Eψ
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That's because they are illegal immigrants, there is quite a big difference. The main difference being that illegal immigrants are far less welcome. Also, it's like saying a white person is an original resident in India. I can't really see that, to be blunt.
So one can just sink the ships with them like a certain someone has proposed? Is this a politician people should listen to?

And if a white person was born in India, I don't see why he doesn't belong there, especially if his/her family has lived in India for generations

Exactly, so this is a problem that seemingly 'everywhere in Europe' agrees with - and wants to stop, hence the voting.
No, they vote out of fear, fear of immigrants, and the parties are populist because they gain support on this growing fear to other people. And the financial crisis helps too.
 
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The minority of the British Public oppose what he believes.
Care to back up that bit of grandstanding with a reliable reference. While most people in Britain when asked will probably agree that they think there is a problem with immigration in this country and there need to be better controls. I don't think there is a majority support for trying to send everyone who is not white out of the country. The fact also remains that no-one knows what Nick Griffin believes, he squirms and avoids to answer any question where a truthful answer may show him in a poor light.

He wants to return Britain to it's ethnic (Christian) inhabitants. He classifies ethnic Britons as being here since the last ice age (17,000 years) Christianity is approximately 200 years old, so it isn't hard to see that the people he classifies as ethnic Britons were not by default Christian. The Christianity took over from an pre-existing religions to become the dominant ideal, if a new viewpoint on religion emerges why should the Briton's not be allowed to change to a new view of things rather than having our laws and common morals dictated by a 2000 year old text, at least the Qu'ran is a bit more up to date, although I'd rather State and Religion were separated like they are now.

Also the ethnic Briton going back to the last ice age, how many invasions and more peaceful immigrations have there been in that time? How many people in Britain are actually as ethnically pure as Nick Griffin would like? It's difficult to take anything the man says seriously when the foundation of his whole philosophy is such a shoddy premise.

There are many many more points of the BNP to discuss, such as Griffin's apparent racial hatred and Holocaust denial, albeit, feel free to discuss them.
Apparent racial hatred? I think Bunny put this better than I ever could: http://bunny-comic.com/1431.html

Holocaust denial, well we don't know what he thinks about this as he refuses to speak about it now, even when given assurance by the Minister for Justice that he can speak freely on the matter. Instead he chose to just attack the European Union, clearly feeling this will make him more popular than the fact he does not believe Nazi Germany slaughtered roughly 6 million Jews.

why is it he turned the BNP around and everybody is voting for him? Why is the percentage of votes always increasing?
Ok, you gave the population of the UK as 62 million, the BNP got about 1 million votes in the last European election. The voting populace is what, maybe 50 million, so the BNP got 2% of the vote considerably less than any other major political party including the Greens and most certainly not everybody.

If you want to have a political debate cut the rhetoric and the grandstanding and try engaging with the real situation and statistics. The BNP do usually try to ignore most statistics, usually because they do not suit their agenda, as statistics show the multicolour reality we live in, where the BNP prefer things in their simple black and white world (well if we're being technical their white world, black obviously is not wanted).

Also during the last European election the British political society was undergoing one of the largest scandals it has seen. On the backdrop of this the BNP could not increase the number of votes that they received, indicating that they have a core support that they can motivate to go out and vote. The number of people voting for them in that election actually decreased from the previous election, while their percentage of the vote increased due to people feeling disenfranchised by the current political set-up and not voting. So there were millions of voters who wanted a change from the political mainstream, but rather than vote for the BNP they chose to not vote at all, this does not really show the overwhelming support and agreement for the BNP and their policies you suggest most British people have. Again please try and stick to the facts instead of repeating the vacuous BNP rhetoric here.
 
追放されたバカ
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Now, this man is hated among all of Britain. He's probably more hated than Gordon Brown at the moment.

But let him believe what he wants to believe. He knows that many other people have been captured, tortured, etc. for what they believe.

It's his own fault that he's hated. Lets just hope he doesn't watch Have I Got News For You, as that loves taking the mickey out of people...
 
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