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The Bulbagarden Conversational Chat Thread Vol 4

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H-con

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@TheMissingno.; Don't even try to compare history to esoteric math subjects a lot of people are, honestly, never going to use beyond high school. (I'm not talking algebra, I'm talking advanced trig and statistics. Yes, most of us who aren't in math and science don't use that very much.)

Ehhmm, it's not the math that is the real important part, it's the part where you sit down and analyze a problem, going through step by step to attain the solution. Somehow that gets lost in translation or something. That's ability is extremely important, nobody thinks engineers need to sit down and do basic integrals.

And besides, humans love problems, as long as they're presented in a satisfying way.
 

Caprizant

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While I do agree it's important to have an education in many different fields in case it comes useful for you later in life, I really feel our efforts are best directed towards more general stuff such as employability, financial management, general health care, etc. The more career-specific stuff can be saved for later education. Much of the school system needs a do-over, really. People just aren't taught what they need to know right after they leave high school: how to get a job, keep it, earn good money on it, be smart with that money, own a house, have a family, stay healthy, or even just how to deal with other people in general. All the extra work just causes unnecessary pressure on students and leaves them confused and lost when they leave school. Kids are taught they need to get high grades, they need to know what they're taught, they absolutely need to be top-notch in intelligence. This just creates unnecessary pressure. I've recently gotten panic attacks because my grades are subpar, even though all my teachers tell me I'm a brilliant kid. I just don't get why we teach students the way we do now.
 

Goodbye Blue Monday

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But aren't you 13 or 14? History only really gets fun in the later parts of secondary school and university, when you start analyzing accounts of history themselves and, yes, how much of what we learn in the earlier grades is propaganda one way or the other.
13. Mm, I've heard from my sister that the actual good stuff in both history and R.E comes in later on. But that's only if we take it as one of our options, isn't it?

Well then you should take it as one of your options!

@TheMissingno.; Don't even try to compare history to esoteric math subjects a lot of people are, honestly, never going to use beyond high school. (I'm not talking algebra, I'm talking advanced trig and statistics. Yes, most of us who aren't in math and science don't use that very much.)

Ehhmm, it's not the math that is the real important part, it's the part where you sit down and analyze a problem, going through step by step to attain the solution. Somehow that gets lost in translation or something. That's ability is extremely important, nobody thinks engineers need to sit down and do basic integrals.

And besides, humans love problems, as long as they're presented in a satisfying way.

But in the same way, English classes aren't just about hunting for color words in The Great Gatsby. They're about giving us the basic skills of literary analysis that we can use to critically engage with all kinds of media we encounter in our lives.

And yeah, I think most high school English teachers miss that fact (and it's a major bone I have to pick with them). But likewise, most of my high school math teachers didn't spend much time explaining how the basic skills of mathematical problem solving applied to our lives beyond figuring out the equation in front of us.
 

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reorio

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I'm not ageist, I just have a hard time believing someone whose peers haven't taken algebra would have a thorough understanding of adult issues. It's 15-16 where I can see someone I would be able to treat on level footing. That's from personal experience by the way.
 

H-con

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And yeah, I think most high school English teachers miss that fact (and it's a major bone I have to pick with them). But likewise, most of my high school math teachers didn't spend much time explaining how the basic skills of mathematical problem solving applied to our lives beyond figuring out the equation in front of us.

And therein lies the problem. Math education would hardly be as terrible if people focused less on the absurd notion that everything have to have a direct, practical appliance in real life, and more to the fact that knowledge and the ability to solve problems analytically is fundamental to a society as a whole.

Of course, don't interpret that as me saying math>everything else. A broad spectrum of subjects is needed to really stimulate a student, anything else leads to stagnation.

While the current state of the educational system is ... generally not optimal for a lot of countries, I'm still a bit skeptical to the idea of teaching employment and all that. That's an idea that's born to fail hard, I'm sure of it. No matter though, with the advances in technology, education is well overdue for change, and it's bound to change quite a bit.
 

Caprizant

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I'm not ageist, I just have a hard time believing someone whose peers haven't taken algebra would have a thorough understanding of adult issues. It's 15-16 where I can see someone I would be able to treat on level footing. That's from personal experience by the way.
She's Welsh, so her school system is different—they get to high school and skip middle school, iirc. She does take algebra, I know. And she's a very reasonable person. c:
 

reorio

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All I know about the European school system is that the French call middle school "college," so my analogy referred to our way of going about things :p
 

DerMißingno

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@TheMissingno.; Don't even try to compare history to esoteric math subjects a lot of people are, honestly, never going to use beyond high school. (I'm not talking algebra, I'm talking advanced trig and statistics. Yes, most of us who aren't in math and science don't use that very much.)

I'll use parabolas, the thing that Fabby mentioned. Have you ever thrown an object? If so, then parabolas.
 

CrackFox

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Tell that to someone who wasn't one year old during the 9/11 scare.

That has nothing to do with anything. People can be wise beyond their years. It doesn't always matter. I can honestly say I don't think i'm any wiser now, than when I was 13. Actually, I feel myself getting more immature with age :B
 

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I didn't take just maths as a degree because I'm necessarily going to need to analyse limits or talk about rings of numbers or whatever I'm even learning, maths and science help extremely well with analytical skills, problem solving, and are very employable. In any type of job, some jobs look specifically for graduates out of maths-based degrees, and also, it's interesting. I don't care I'm never gonna have to work out a Fourier series in my adult life, I'm also never gonna have to write an essay on Italy in the 1900's either.
 

reorio

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Tell that to someone who wasn't one year old during the 9/11 scare.

That has nothing to do with anything. People can be wise beyond their years. It doesn't always matter. I can honestly say I don't think i'm any wiser now, than when I was 13. Actually, I feel myself getting more immature with age :B

13 is an age where boys are still a good 5-6 years from finishing puberty and girls are still years from maturing, so from a biological standpoint they are not as mature as they could be as adults. I was a rebel at that age and admittedly self conscious over dumb issues, so I recounted from experience :$
 

Caprizant

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13 is an age where boys are still a good 5-6 years from finishing puberty and girls are still years from maturing, so from a biological standpoint they are not as mature as they could be as adults. I was a rebel at that age and admittedly self conscious over dumb issues, so I recounted from experience :$
Biological maturity ≠ mental maturity. Many people are much, much smarter than their age would tell you.
 

reorio

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It differs from person to person, doesn't mean they do not gain life experience from more than half a decade of turbulence. A coddled Norse princess who never stepped out of her room for 17 years would be as immature as a child, but she would have more discretion than she did as a prepubescent. same goes for everyone else who was not caught in a motorbike accident.
 

Goodbye Blue Monday

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@TheMissingno.; Don't even try to compare history to esoteric math subjects a lot of people are, honestly, never going to use beyond high school. (I'm not talking algebra, I'm talking advanced trig and statistics. Yes, most of us who aren't in math and science don't use that very much.)

I'll use parabolas, the thing that Fabby mentioned. Have you ever thrown an object? If so, then parabolas.

But do you need to do algebra every time you throw an object? No.

C'mon, you're not even trying now. :p

It differs from person to person

Well, then, maybe you shouldn't jump to conclusions purely based on someone's numerical age.

Life experience is a thing but it's also relative, and a lack of certainly doesn't mean that someone has nothing of value to say.

@Guinevere; is consistently one of the most insightful, intelligent people in the Conversational Chat, in my opinion (that of someone nearly a decade older than her). Stop being a jerk.
 

DerMißingno

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@TheMissingno.; Don't even try to compare history to esoteric math subjects a lot of people are, honestly, never going to use beyond high school. (I'm not talking algebra, I'm talking advanced trig and statistics. Yes, most of us who aren't in math and science don't use that very much.)

I'll use parabolas, the thing that Fabby mentioned. Have you ever thrown an object? If so, then parabolas.

But do you need to do algebra every time you throw an object? No.

C'mon, you're not even trying now. :p

Trying what? Math is literally everywhere and everything. If you don't like it, find another universe.
 

reorio

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The thing is that one needs to have learned from mistakes to better their judgement and insight, and I don't feel someone whose earliest memory would not date back a decade would be able to overcome their inexperience as well as those that are over 7 years older than them. In general it would not matter past the early 20's, but a fresh teen I can't see radiating maturity. It wasn't directed towards her, the 13 year old thing just got brought up.
 

Goodbye Blue Monday

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@TheMissingno.; I think you know perfectly well what I mean. Stop being obtuse. (See, I'm using math! :p)

The thing is that one needs to have learned from mistakes to better their judgement and insight, and I don't feel someone whose earliest memory would not date back a decade would be able to overcome their inexperience as well as those that are over 7 years older than them. In general it would not matter past the early 20's, but a fresh teen I can't see radiating maturity. It wasn't directed towards her, the 13 year old thing just got brought up.

I only brought it up in terms of establishing where she was in her education, because I didn't start learning historiography until a few years later than where she is.

I definitely did not bring it up so you could pull a bunch of crap out of your ass about "life experience" in order to completely dismiss the opinions of a very intelligent, thoughtful person because of her age.
 

DerMißingno

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The thing is that one needs to have learned from mistakes to better their judgement and insight, and I don't feel someone whose earliest memory would not date back a decade would be able to overcome their inexperience as well as those that are over 7 years older than them. In general it would not matter past the early 20's, but a fresh teen I can't see radiating maturity. It wasn't directed towards her, the 13 year old thing just got brought up.

True to a point, but you can't really end any debate by saying "I'm older than you." I tend to avoid commenting the 13 year old kids who say "wine tastes bad" in the bulba pub because it's obvious that not only do they not have any experience at all to contribute on the matter, but it's an objective fact that tastes change over time. It's better to ignore them than to argue because that way you avoid the "age doesn't matter" debate.
 
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