BDSP The Chibi-style of the game. Like or Hate

[WyndonCalling]

I am very skeptical that a grid-based, simplified-style remake of older titles would perform anywhere near as well as what looks to be a, well, modern Switch game. I distinctly remember the hype surrounding SwSh's early trailers, and if Legends doesn't perform as well as BDSP I would happily attribute it to the once-bitten-twice-shy disappointment of the Wild Area.

Open world mechanics feels more like a base-level expectation of a wide segment of players for any full-priced console game, not a gameplay quirk desired by grognards - to call it a gimmick for a tie-in title seems to heavily undervalue the ambition on display. If anything, it's the retro grid-based adventure that seems to be trying to appeal to nostalgia, especially given how little of it has apparently changed.

 

[swiftgallade46]

I think both will sell well but yeah, I don’t see any reason to believe BDSP will out-sell LA.

 

[pitchtheripoff]

If BDSP does outsell L:A then it proves that nostalgia will always sell, and that's not really a good thing.

 

[swiftgallade46]

If BDSP does outsell L:A then it proves that nostalgia will always sell, and that's not really a good thing.

Genuine question, but why not?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

'What I'm on about'? I'm not seeing why the highly anticipated DP remakes would sell less than a tie-in gimmick game. And no I personally don't believe for a second that Legends: Arceus being an open world game will make a significant difference considering that it was usually a very select niche of older fans who were clamoring for open world gameplay anyway - the majority of players would probably rather play something familiar instead of spending cash on a bleak spin-off.

I'm sure some people will claim that Legends might pull a Pokemon GO and surpass expectations, but I think there's a vast difference between a free to download mobile game and a spin-off game that'll cost approximately $60.

"The most ambitious Pokémon Title yet" will go off the shelves. It makes a significant difference since it looks like a modern switch game, like the Breath of the Wild or Mario Odyssey of Pokémon. It’s not a "select niche" though, Breath of the Wild showed that the sales will explode if you reimagine your game with an open world like that.

This seems like more of your personal bias than anything rooted in fact. It’s as much of a main project as Sword and Shield. It’s pretty telling that the actual remakes you talk about have been doneby another company, but Legends: Arceus is a GameFreak project. And Pokémon games sell. I’m betting Legends: Arceus will break sales records, probably not as much as sword and shield, but it’s gonna break some of those records.

Genuine question, but why not?

I guess probably because they think that it’ll lead to Pokémon releasing a lot more nostalgia based games with little new content. I’m just trying to answer your question, I don’t really have any stake in this argument or strong opinions.
But personally I’d rather not encourage games that do not stylistically evolve from the games they are the remakes of.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Remakes can stylistally evolve from the original games while still appealing to nostalgia, though. I just don’t think there anything inherently wrong with the desire for nostalgic appeal. I don’t think anyone is saying “I want nostalgia at the cost of quality” I think people want a quality game with nostalgic elements.

 

[Johtoo]

If BDSP does outsell L:A then it proves that nostalgia will always sell, and that's not really a good thing.

Mainline games always outsell spin offs. I'm not sure what category Legends falls into, but it certainly isn't a mainline game.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Mainline games always outsell spin offs. I'm not sure what category Legends falls into, but it certainly isn't a mainline game.

Legends is a mainline game. Its Japanese title contains a phrase that is only included in main titles.

 

[Johtoo]

I said this before: I understand what they were doing with these remakes, but the fans have developed standards for remakes. Fire Red was done in Gen 3 style. SoulSilver was done in Gen 4 style. ORAS was done in Gen 6 style. Each remake has followed their respective gens except for this game. They also hired a no named developer when other developers (such as namco) could have worked on it. The overall product just looks cheap, but its meant to cost $60. I remember the collective sigh when it was revealed, and i think that best describes these games. Those who buy it will do so because of nostalgia, but there is nothing about these games that is exciting or amazing.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Mainline games always outsell spin offs. I'm not sure what category Legends falls into, but it certainly isn't a mainline game.

Legends is as mainline as Let's Go and other games. In fact, it’s BSDP whose main game status is in question according to conventional definitions.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Remakes can stylistally evolve from the original games while still appealing to nostalgia, though. I just don’t think there anything inherently wrong with the desire for nostalgic appeal. I don’t think anyone is saying “I want nostalgia at the cost of quality” I think people want a quality game with nostalgic elements.

Well, we are on a thread about a remake that appeals to nostalgia by halting all stylistic evolution. They’ve done the literal bare minimum for a 3D transition with the same art style.

 

[Johtoo]

Legends is a mainline game. Its Japanese title contains a phrase that is only included in main titles.

We have seen nothing that says this is a mainline game. It's not generation 9, it's not a remake, it doesn't fit into the Pokemon schema. Just because it adopts the Title (in japan, not the west), it doesn't make it a mainline game. If anything, it's a new series that could create its own mainline games; i.e., sequels. But it isn't a traditional mainline game.

 

[Johtoo]

Legends is as mainline as Let's Go and other games. In fact, it’s BSDP whose main game status is in question according to conventional definitions.

How would you know? lol. We don't know anything about these games

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

We have seen nothing that says this is a mainline game. It's not generation 9, it's not a remake, it doesn't fit into the Pokemon schema.

Just because it’s outside of your narrow view of what a Pokémon game is doesn’t mean it isn’t mainline. It’s mainline in the exact same way as Let's Go series is.

Just because it adopts the Title (in japan, not the west),

The West doesn’t matter for this discussion because the games are by Japanese developers.

it doesn't make it a mainline game. If anything, it's a new series that could create its own mainline games; i.e., sequels. But it isn't a traditional mainline game.

This is a new series of mainline games. It isn’t traditional but it is a mainline game. Not everything has to fit into binary arbitrary categories.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

How would you know? lol. We don't know anything about these games

-It is developed by GameFreak
-It uses core series branding in Japan.
-Bulbapedia already did research for this.

• Despite its title not containing the full name of "Pocket Monsters" in Japanese, Pokémon Legends: Arceus is considered to be a part of the core series by the official website.[1]

• トップページ｜『Pokémon LEGENDS アルセウス』公式サイト
• Being acknowledged as being main series by the official website is all I need.

 

[Johtoo]

Just because it’s outside of your narrow view of what a Pokémon game is doesn’t mean it isn’t mainline. It’s mainline in the exact same way as Let's Go series is.


The West doesn’t matter for this discussion because the games are by Japanese developers.

This is a new series of mainline games. It isn’t traditional but it is a mainline game. Not everything has to fit into binary arbitrary categories.

If you say the west doesn't matter, why have Japan standardized the western Pokemon Logo (replacing their own logo) in the latest mainline games? You call my viewpoint narrow, yet you assert your own opinion without any evidence at all. There isn't even a quote from a director or a PR represntative that states these are mainline games. Let's Go is a mainline game because Masuda stated it, no one has confirmed this at all. Maybe you should make sure your viewpoint comes across as an opinion, because from here, it's looking like what you're saying is fact - even though it isn't.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

If you say the west doesn't matter, why have Japan standardized the western Pokemon Logo (replacing their own logo) in the latest mainline games? You call my viewpoint narrow, yet you assert your own opinion without any evidence at all. There isn't even a quote from a director or a PR represntative that states these are mainline games. Let's Go is a mainline game because Masuda stated it, no one has confirmed this at all. Maybe you should make sure your viewpoint comes across as an opinion, because from here, it's looking like what you're saying is fact - even though it isn't.

If you read my above post I’ve clearly given a source. The Japanese website is the most authentic source one can get about the development of a Japanese franchise. Bulbapedia includes nothing in their wiki without stringent research and sources. The Japanese website is PR for gamefreak.

Masuda IS Gamefreak. His word is all it’s needed to confirm it. He was GameFreak's PR representative when he said Let's Go is core series.

 

[Johtoo]

-It is developed by GameFreak
-It uses core series branding in Japan.
-Bulbapedia already did research for this.

• トップページ｜『Pokémon LEGENDS アルセウス』公式サイト
• Being acknowledged as being main series by the official website is all I need.

1. So? Did you watch the trailer or visit the website? They have made it painfully obvious that this is series takes homage from previous games.
2. Japan branding doesn't mean anything anymore. Japan has adopted the western logo, therefore it shares no priority over the west.
3. Again, Japan is no metric.

 

[Johtoo]

If you read my above post I’ve clearly given a source. The Japanese website is the most authentic source one can get about the development of a Japanese franchise. Bulbapedia includes nothing in their wiki without stringent research and sources. The Japanese website is PR for gamefreak.

Masuda IS Gamefreak. His word is all it’s needed to confirm it. He was GameFreak's PR representative when he said Let's Go is core series.

You're literally ignoring anything that doesn't suit your argument. You stated the west doesn't count, you somehow think The Pokemon Company and Gamefreak are the same thing, even though they're not. By the way, I said we don't know if these are mainline games. I said let's wait and see, yet you are already jumping on the gun and accepting everything is as you see it without any further proof at all. Like i said: wait and see.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

1. So? Did you watch the trailer or visit the website? They have made it painfully obvious that this is a new series that takes homage from previous games.
2. Japan branding doesn't mean anything anymore. Japan has adopted the western logo, therefore it shares no priority over the west.
3. Again, Japan is no metric.

The Pokémon official website says it’s main series. So it’s main series. End of story. I don’t see why we need other proof when an official source tells us so.