The Dub: Non-canon, or just a separate continuity?

[Yash]

Yeah but if they had just translated the episode accurately they would have been fine.

Not like the Japanese version is always consistent (for example Shigeru had 40 Pokemon as of the lighthouse episode, but later it's said he only has 30 Pokemon - which the dub translated correctly) but many inconsistencies were created just by 4Kids not following the original script. They also did this in other shows like Sonic X, Yugioh and One Piece constantly.

 

[matt0044]

Lola is, pretty much, the singular reason why I'm not inclined to view particularly radical dub changes as "canon", more a misinterpretation of what's actually happening.

To be perfectly fair, they never knew Pokemon would make it to Gen 3.

Still funny how they included a character death rather than removing it.

And honestly, the dub's just the english version of the Pokemon Anime. Simple as that. Is this really worth a debate like this?

 

[garrison-san]

And honestly, the dub's just the english version of the Pokemon Anime. Simple as that. Is this really worth a debate like this?

I strongly suggest that you don't participate in this discussion if you can see no value in it.

 

[Toa of Ponies]

I like to pretend the whole Anime is Non-canon.

 

[matt0044]

And honestly, the dub's just the english version of the Pokemon Anime. Simple as that. Is this really worth a debate like this?

I strongly suggest that you don't participate in this discussion if you can see no value in it.

Excellent suggestion. I shall do just that.

Before I do, I'll rephrase my words: I like the 4kids dub but I'm able to acknowledge certain edits and shortcomings from them. I don't think it's a "separate continuity" but merely the English version of the Pokemon Anime.

 

[Glitchipedia]

I like to pretend the whole Anime is Non-canon.

It is non-canon to the other facets of the franchise, like the games and manga, but it wouldn't get very far in life if it wasn't canon to itself.

If you mean to say that you like to pretend the anime simply doesn't exist, I'm curious what you're doing in the anime subforum to begin with. Serious question, not an accusation or anything.

 

[Bland Mango]

Looks like I'm flowing against the stream here, but in my mind the Dub is canon and the original isn't, I think the dub overwrites the original.
I'm not one of these purists who want it as close to the original as possible including names etc, I think 4Kids improved the Pokemon franchise and was a major part of making it a success as they made it more appealing and accessible to a Western audience.

I know I'm in a minority here but oh well.

 

[Toa of Ponies]

I like to pretend the whole Anime is Non-canon.

It is non-canon to the other facets of the franchise, like the games and manga, but it wouldn't get very far in life if it wasn't canon to itself.

If you mean to say that you like to pretend the anime simply doesn't exist, I'm curious what you're doing in the anime subforum to begin with. Serious question, not an accusation or anything.

Ehh, just surfing around the forums. I don't not like the anime, I sorta have a love/hate relationship with it.

 

[Dogasu]

I think 4Kids improved the Pokemon franchise and was a major part of making it a success as they made it more appealing and accessible to a Western audience.

And I would argue that the show was already appealing and accessible to Western audiences without 4Kids' "improvements."

 

[Shadao]

I think 4Kids improved the Pokemon franchise and was a major part of making it a success as they made it more appealing and accessible to a Western audience.

And I would argue that the show was already appealing and accessible to Western audiences without 4Kids' "improvements."

I think that in the long run, the 4Kids' dub damaged much of the Pokémon anime's reputation here in the US, especially in terms of nostalgia remembering. No one really looks fondly over Ash's character, with fans deliberately and consciously avoiding to call Red "Ash" (whereas Gary/Green/Blue used interchangeably and no one really complained). Watching the Japanese subs I could find and then compare them to the 4Kids, it seems that 4Kids exaggerated Satoshi's idiotic and immature moments and made them more noticeable to the English audience. I'm not sure though, because I don't know if subs were accurate enough.

 

[matt0044]

it seems that 4Kids exaggerated Satoshi's idiotic and immature moments and made them more noticeable to the English audience. I'm not sure though, because I don't know if subs were accurate enough.

I don't think they really exaggerated much if at all. Satoshi was pretty much a naive rookie through and through. TPCi exaggerates nothing as Ash's dialogue is the straight translation from the JPN version.

 

[Shadao]

it seems that 4Kids exaggerated Satoshi's idiotic and immature moments and made them more noticeable to the English audience. I'm not sure though, because I don't know if subs were accurate enough.

I don't think they really exaggerated much if at all. Satoshi was pretty much a naive rookie through and through. TPCi exaggerates nothing as Ash's dialogue is the straight translation from the JPN version.

Perhaps. But it felt like something was off for me when I watched the two version side by side. Maybe there were other factors that made me think that way, like the voice tone differences. I really don't know for sure.

 

[matt0044]

Perhaps. But it felt like something was off for me when I watched the two version side by side. Maybe there were other factors that made me think that way, like the voice tone differences. I really don't know for sure.

Well, Episode 1 shows Ash/Satoshi in his rookie-ish ways for one.

 

[Poyo]

Anyway, it's neither. It's just a dub and not non-canon or a separate continuity. It's more or less the same story-wise and a lot of their changes are tremendous enough to say otherwise, especially if they end up retconning mistakes later on.

I think that in the long run, the 4Kids' dub damaged much of the Pokémon anime's reputation here in the US

They didn't. Pokemon DVD's are the highest selling anime DVDs in North America (only rivaled by Disney's Ghibli releases) every year. They make up a huge percentage of the anime merchandising block too. Here's a list from Jetro's 2012 report of the highest selling anime DVDs in North America:

1. Arrietty
2. My Neighbor Totoro
3. Pokémon Movies 4-7 (Heroes / 4Ever / Destiny Deoxys / Jirachi: Wish Maker)
4. Arrietty (Blu-ray)
5. Spirited Away
6. Ponyo
7. Laputa: Castle in the Sky
8. Pokémon 4Ever
9. Howl's Moving Castle
10. Tales From Earthsea
11. Kiki's Delivery Service
12. Resident Evil: Damnation (Blu-ray)
13. Pokémon the Movie: Black - Victini and Reshiram
14. Resident Evil: Damnation
15. Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind
16. Pokémon Heroes: Latias & Latios
17. Dragon Ball Z: Season 9
18. Dragon Ball Z: Season 8
19. Pokémon 4Ever / Pokémon Heroes: Latias & Latios
20. Whisper of the Heart (Blu-ray)

Lots of 4Kids dubbed movies there.