The end of Ash due to 20TH anniversary?

[henrymidfields]

It seems the TRio are being used nowadays as nothing more than an excuse to bring conflict to the show (even when there's already a more well-done conflict). Also, as competent as he his now, Ash is still as annoying and bland as he was in the past. All in all, I think that the show needs to end because it has become too tired to continue, I should have said that originally.

I actually wonder why some are annoyed with Ash and I'm not (as in the difference of annoyance). Mind you, I skipped the AG, DP, and BW arcs entirely (The RSE games turned me off from Pokémon, and I only played BW1+2 after playing XY.), so maybe I must not have been Ash-overdosed as other people did.

I thought that the new writers for Origins were brought over for XY as well for a new start. And I thought that was partially in response to some of the problems that plagued BW??? Does anyone know?

 

[Pokeplayer150]

It seems the TRio are being used nowadays as nothing more than an excuse to bring conflict to the show (even when there's already a more well-done conflict). Also, as competent as he his now, Ash is still as annoying and bland as he was in the past. All in all, I think that the show needs to end because it has become too tired to continue, I should have said that originally.

I actually wonder why some are annoyed with Ash and I'm not (as in the difference of annoyance). Mind you, I skipped the AG, DP, and BW arcs entirely (The RSE games turned me off from Pokémon, and I only played BW1+2 after playing XY.), so maybe I must not have been Ash-overdosed as other people did.

I thought that the new writers for Origins were brought over for XY as well for a new start. And I thought that was partially in response to some of the problems that plagued BW??? Does anyone know?

Well, I'm not so into the anime either, but trust me, you'll be turned off by it the moment you finish watching the first three episodes of BW. A major gripe that people have is the fact that the entire voice cast was replaced toward the end of the Advanced series, switching out Veronica Taylor with Sarah Natochenny, who is just downright atrocious. Second, in BW the writers made the fatal mistake of resetting Ash, making him once again a complete idiot just as he was getting somewhere in the DP arc. Though they brought in the writers from Origins so that they could redeem themselves, the damage had already been done. Lastly, though this is opinion I can't help but notice it, he is the most static and uninteresting character on the entire show even before he was reseted. And you know you have a problem when that's the protagonist of all people.

 

[MasterJedi]

It seems the TRio are being used nowadays as nothing more than an excuse to bring conflict to the show (even when there's already a more well-done conflict). Also, as competent as he his now, Ash is still as annoying and bland as he was in the past. All in all, I think that the show needs to end because it has become too tired to continue, I should have said that originally.

I actually wonder why some are annoyed with Ash and I'm not (as in the difference of annoyance). Mind you, I skipped the AG, DP, and BW arcs entirely (The RSE games turned me off from Pokémon, and I only played BW1+2 after playing XY.), so maybe I must not have been Ash-overdosed as other people did.

I thought that the new writers for Origins were brought over for XY as well for a new start. And I thought that was partially in response to some of the problems that plagued BW??? Does anyone know?

Well, I'm not so into the anime either, but trust me, you'll be turned off by it the moment you finish watching the first three episodes of BW. A major gripe that people have is the fact that the entire voice cast was replaced toward the end of the Advanced series, switching out Veronica Taylor with Sarah Natochenny, who is just downright atrocious. Second, in BW the writers made the fatal mistake of resetting Ash, making him once again a complete idiot just as he was getting somewhere in the DP arc. Though they brought in the writers from Origins so that they could redeem themselves, the damage had already been done, they had lost a good chunk of their viewers. Lastly, though this is opinion I can't help but notice it, he is the most static and uninteresting character on the entire show even before he was reseted. And you know you have a problem when that's the protagonist of all people.

henrymidfields:

1. BW is not as bad as everyone says. Yes it's not as good as DP and XY but people got it in their heads about how "horrible" it was and the Pokémon anime fanbase is one of the worst out there.

2. Not as many viewers were lost as what is said, just look at everyone here who keeps watching and hating it!

3. Ash will never leave, he's not as uninteresting and bland as people say and he'll never go anywhere. There are no "hints" that he's leaving or the story is wrapping up aka don't really listen to what anyone says.

 

[Pokeplayer150]

It seems the TRio are being used nowadays as nothing more than an excuse to bring conflict to the show (even when there's already a more well-done conflict). Also, as competent as he his now, Ash is still as annoying and bland as he was in the past. All in all, I think that the show needs to end because it has become too tired to continue, I should have said that originally.

I actually wonder why some are annoyed with Ash and I'm not (as in the difference of annoyance). Mind you, I skipped the AG, DP, and BW arcs entirely (The RSE games turned me off from Pokémon, and I only played BW1+2 after playing XY.), so maybe I must not have been Ash-overdosed as other people did.

I thought that the new writers for Origins were brought over for XY as well for a new start. And I thought that was partially in response to some of the problems that plagued BW??? Does anyone know?

Well, I'm not so into the anime either, but trust me, you'll be turned off by it the moment you finish watching the first three episodes of BW. A major gripe that people have is the fact that the entire voice cast was replaced toward the end of the Advanced series, switching out Veronica Taylor with Sarah Natochenny, who is just downright atrocious. Second, in BW the writers made the fatal mistake of resetting Ash, making him once again a complete idiot just as he was getting somewhere in the DP arc. Though they brought in the writers from Origins so that they could redeem themselves, the damage had already been done, they had lost a good chunk of their viewers. Lastly, though this is opinion I can't help but notice it, he is the most static and uninteresting character on the entire show even before he was reseted. And you know you have a problem when that's the protagonist of all people.

henrymidfields:

1. BW is not as bad as everyone says. Yes it's not as good as DP and XY but people got it in their heads about how "horrible" it was and the Pokémon anime fanbase is one of the worst out there.

2. Not as many viewers were lost as what is said, just look at everyone here who keeps watching and hating it!

3. Ash will never leave, he's not as uninteresting and bland as people say and he'll never go anywhere. There are no "hints" that he's leaving or the story is wrapping up aka don't really listen to what anyone says.

I don't really consider myself an anime fan because I haven't seen enough of the series, though I have been following it. Also, he doesn't have to listen to me because I'm only giving my honest opinion, just as you are giving yours.

 

[Silktree]

I thought that the new writers for Origins were brought over for XY as well for a new start. And I thought that was partially in response to some of the problems that plagued BW??? Does anyone know?

Origins' writers, Mitsutaka Hirota and Kuniaki Kasahara, have never worked on the regular anime. The XY series has not replaced the writing staff.

 

[Gnomowladny]

I think many of you are missing the point that Ash is being kept around for the sole reason of assissting true main character - Pikachu. It is still the most recognizable icon of the franchise, and unless this changed, which I doubt will ever happen, Ash will remain where he is.

 

[Magmaster12]

I seriously doubt they would ever get rid of Ash. ever.

However the Mega Evolution specials show that even the writers must be sick of Ash by this point.

 

[FletchMaster26]

I seriously doubt they would ever get rid of Ash. ever.

However the Mega Evolution specials show that even the writers must be sick of Ash by this point.

How do you connect the Mega Evolution Specials with the writers being sick of Ash when they referenced Ash positively in the first Special?

 

[Shinneth]

I think many of you are missing the point that Ash is being kept around for the sole reason of assissting true main character - Pikachu. It is still the most recognizable icon of the franchise, and unless this changed, which I doubt will ever happen, Ash will remain where he is.

This is how I feel about the whole matter. It's not really Ash that is so critically important to the franchise as it is Pikachu. We know they'll never split up, so Ash just so happens to be part of the packaged deal. When it comes down to it, Ash is not the mascot of the Pokemon franchise as a whole - it always has and always will be Pikachu, no matter how many more Pokemon are introduced beyond what we've got now.

Of course, they COULD go the route of having a new protagonist who also happens to have a Pikachu as a permanent buddy... but I think that element alone would just give us more of the same; the new protagonist would probably still be Ash, just with a different skin and possibly gender. And I'm pretty sure even kids would be able to see through this kind of scheme and cry foul about why Ash is getting replaced when there's still a Pikachu that would probably still be voiced by Ikue Ohtani. So yeah, the real concern here is not Ash; it's Pikachu, who we REALLY know won't be going anywhere.

But yeah. I don't think the writing staff has the ability or desire to even try to make another story with a new protagonist with a Pikachu even remotely different from the routine they've had going for seventeen years. So we're stuck with what we've got, no matter how many anniversaries pass.

 

[Beth Pavell]

I seriously doubt they would ever get rid of Ash. ever.

However the Mega Evolution specials show that even the writers must be sick of Ash by this point.

If that's true then they were also sick of him years ago with Chronicles

 

[henrymidfields]

Well, I'm not so into the anime either, but trust me, you'll be turned off by it the moment you finish watching the first three episodes of BW. A major gripe that people have is the fact that the entire voice cast was replaced toward the end of the Advanced series, switching out Veronica Taylor with Sarah Natochenny, who is just downright atrocious. Second, in BW the writers made the fatal mistake of resetting Ash, making him once again a complete idiot just as he was getting somewhere in the DP arc. Though they brought in the writers from Origins so that they could redeem themselves, the damage had already been done, they had lost a good chunk of their viewers. Lastly, though this is opinion I can't help but notice it, he is the most static and uninteresting character on the entire show even before he was reseted. And you know you have a problem when that's the protagonist of all people.

henrymidfields:

1. BW is not as bad as everyone says. Yes it's not as good as DP and XY but people got it in their heads about how "horrible" it was and the Pokémon anime fanbase is one of the worst out there.

2. Not as many viewers were lost as what is said, just look at everyone here who keeps watching and hating it!

3. Ash will never leave, he's not as uninteresting and bland as people say and he'll never go anywhere. There are no "hints" that he's leaving or the story is wrapping up aka don't really listen to what anyone says.

Pokeplayer150:
- Yeah, as I said before, I skipped AG entirely, so I didn't go through the voice changes, so that must have helped. (The only AG episode I saw was AG034. I didn't see any of the DP episodes, and I only watched one or two BW episodes 1-2years after their initial airing. I only started to actually follow the anime again from XY001.)
- Actually, seeing Bulbapedia's entry on BW001-002 was enough to turn me off. I was really cautious watching XY, considering all of the negativity/fallout. (Although I personally got over that very quickly after seeing XY001-02.)

MasterJedi:
- Yeah, I do find it hilarious how people keep watching it and hating it. (Wild guess: Are they just being tsunderes, and secretly in love?) I do think the big reset button in BW really didn't help though.
- As for Ash not leaving, that's what I initially thought before seeing XY. (And I'd rather see Ash being developed better, with him being ditched as a last option.) But now I personally can't predict what's going to happen...

 

[pokemon fan 132]

I dont think 6th generation is end of Ash. Regardless of pokemon anime approaching its 20th anniversary, even for such big occasion i have my doubts of writers delivering something spectacular about it, let alone finishing Ash journey and pokemon anime we know for good.

Nowhere near as spectacular like Digimon plannes to do for its 20 years of existence delivering sequel and completely new adventure for very first and original characters(Tai, Sora, Joe, Mimi, Yamato etc). Following their lives, stories etc after events which took place in Digimon adventure.
Thats what i call properly made anniversary making homage to roots.

But in pokemon? Show known for not careung about continuity, fluid progression and replace every main character forever forgeting about them like they never were really important?

If we get Pallet town reunion 1 hour special, we could consider ourselves lucky dealing with overcrowded mess of too many characters gathered at one place resulting in no one getting decent focus, build up on their story from where writers left and chance to play notable role in show again.

With Ash afterwards most likely heading toward 7th generation repeating same pattern once again.

For once there has been interview on pokebeach in 2008. with Masamitsu Hidaka(pokemon directior of anime until Battle Frontier, taking position of storyboard artist from than and onwards).

Confirming how pokemon anime will continue to exist with Ash as main star for many, many more generations to come . With end of it not happening until Ash becomes pokemon master.

Now im not sure how much credency and importance Masamitsu Hidaka words hold in this, because since than lot of things could have changed. In regards to writers and higher executives plans, desires and direction in which pokemon anime should be taken. Breaking many patterns and established traditions from before, withdrawing possibly previously made decisions changing their mind about some policies.

Along with change of directors responsible for pokemon anime production. Newest one being Tetsuo Yajima taking this role with XY.

But its worth noting how mr. Hidaka still has better understanding of how pokemon show works, whats happening behind the scenes and is in contact with pokemon staff. More than any of us could possibly have, so his words of Ash being intended to stay with pokemon ending for good with him shouldnt be took lightly.

Here is part of interview referring to that:

Spoiler

Now an overall question about the show. Will Ash ever become a Pokemon Master? He laughed and fell back on the couch. He blatantly said that when Ash becomes a Pokemon Master, the show will end. It will be the last episode. Going back to my first interview, I did not mention that he stated the show was cyclical because it could be the audience is constantly replaced (since children get older and leave, and new children come in), so they are allowed to get away with having the same repetitive goal. So, the show would probably continue the same way collect badges, travel through different regions, never age. Will Ash and Pikachu ever be replaced? No. Will they ever age? No. Will there be a 5th generation of Pokemon and will the show keep continuing? He laughed even harder and said of course. Pokemon will continue for many generations to come, and as he made it sound, probably forever.

Another reason why i doubt 6th generation will be final saga with Ash as main character comes from storyline perspective and time issues. By time pokemon hits mark of 20 years of existence during 2017., will be era when writers would work on wrapping things up with Kalos series and preparing for new generation.

That means only, what? 2 years to wrap Ash character up and everything writers ever started around him?
Impossible with league not happening until at best late 2016.

If anything because current pace of Kalos series , amount of progression Ash receives as character and plots which form his story hasnt reached even climax. Let alone final stage through which he could at least come close to fulfillment of his dreams. Ambitions, desires, reach certain level of emotional growth/maturity through which would go in line with his improvement and reaching higher stages as trainer.

First things first; Ash didnt won regional league tournament or champion league defeating E4 and battling champion. Which is just one of steps he needs to overcome in order to not become master, but just advance his career coming closer toward it according to what Lucian from E4 in DP said.

What other tasks, evaluators, missions, tournaments and tasks Ash would need to accomplish afterwards to acclaim title of pokemon master and strongest pokemon trainer in world hasnt been explained. I imagine some sort of master league where champion of each region enters collecting certain symbols and passing mini competitions like Battle Frontier was to qualify for one big multiscale tournament where champions battle between themselves until last one remains might be option in someone acquiring poke master title. Becoming best among the best.

Ash past and background is very little explored not much being known much about his family such as father(who got brought up by mr. Hidaka in interview and could play important role if writers decide to do more significant character development with main protagonist). Ash connection to Ho-oh foreshadowing him as one of chosen ones and special persons in pokemon world which did not got follow up leaving everything undefined. Revelation of his aura guardian abilities, as one of very few humans in pokemon world who can sense energy of other creatures and materialize his spirit strength being even associated with legendary aura guardian from ancient times in "Keystone Pops" episode.

Various fears, unexplored insecurities and passion of which we may not be aware of. Due to plot not calling for it before like it was case with De De name and Dawn trauma not showing up until someone reminded her of unpleasant moments during childhood.

On top of that Ash is still rash, impulsive and tend to sometime overestimate his battle abilities getting in danger on its own which later bites him back such as almost jumping in boiled water during BW, in thinking he can take down TR Heliolisk mecha on his own resulting in Pikachu being kidnapped etc. He has trouble in utilizing pokemon to full potential, especially ones with robust, defense attributes as Toirterra, Grotle showed. He isnt observant in battles enough missing on key details which means difference between win and defeat as E4 Bertha in their battle noticed.

Along with lacking more sophisticated understanding of battles; rational, collected and calculated approach in strategies which champions and elite trainers are known for.

So with all said and done there is simply too many unanswered questions, open plots and insufficient amount of development injected in progression of Ash pokemon master quest and everything which surround character to wrap him up so soon.

Having masterial to continue on with character for at least one more generation afterwards, possibly moe than that.

Thats just Ash.
BUT lets not forget each and every of his travel companions whose stories, dreams and lives are left open and unresolved as well. Having just as much, if not even more unfinished things about them being at pending status.

Such as Brock and his doctor career, tests he needs to pass, love life etc.

May never becoming top coordinator or receiving coverage on her of screen travels and in what direction her decisions and career too her, Unresolved rivalries too.
Same applies to Dawn.

Misty not coming even close to water pokemon master title winning Whirl Cup and other tasks which push you firward catching up to E4 Lorelei, desire to meet and catch legendary water pokemon understanding their hearts and nature(expected from type masters according to priest Maya). Unesolved Cerulean gym situation staying mostly because of sister laziness making her saddened,and if she plans to leave advancing dreams on more notable level or not. Arguably unresolved romantic feeling for Ash many would say as well.

Cilan connoisseur career and aim to reach highest rank, unexplained trauma revolved around Purrlain, his opposition Burgundy leaving everything on open note.

Iris dragon master career which is left wide open, unfulfilled Axew dream, in what direction her life and future wil play itself out etc.

So there is without doubt many unfinished things with no conclusion in slightest sense of that word not just for Ash but many fan favorites characters too.

To give at very least somewhat satisfying ending and closure to Ash character, his friends and pokemon anime after so many years. With loyal viewers and supporters of pokemon show feeling how everything leaded toward meaningful finish line.

Otherwise if writers dont plan at very least this, what was point behind Ash journey, started life paths of his friends and everything developed about each and every one of them if nothing wont come from it?

Increasing even more my doubt of 20th anniversary marking end of Ash as main protagonist and hero for pokemon series.

Last but probably biggest reason why i genuinely believe Ash isnt leaving any time soon is because of his marketing value, mascot status and importance he build around itself becoming synonym for pokemon series.

As long Nintendo and gamefreak keep producing new games future of pokemon anime is secured. Unless ratings drop to such low point and viewers interest become drastically low to the point of further production making company lose more money than gaining . Forcing writing staff to cancell show which would than reflect horribly on main characters, storyline and plot getting some half assed quickly patched ending with no real closure and some meaningful arc to envelop all those years of adventures, friends and challenges in some fulfilling and orginal experience.

But aside from that one adverse scenario, pokemon anime will continue to air as long games bring profit dictating its existence.
With Ash being kept for simple reason of consistent, stable protagonist allowing to generate higher income of money and customers into franchise in general. Since long lasting in series ensures to become its mascot ,icon which represents anime with who people would associate it.

Whoever i mention pokemon they immediatelly link it with Ash and Pikachu being viewed as inseparable core which makes this show.
At this point people already view pokemon series as Ash show becoming too used to this concept scoring huge popularity.
And trying to take that away brings more risk than benefit at this point in my honest opinion, because with all unpopular decisions and very bad moves production staff made with anime over the years resulting in popularity sinking down; Ash is last link keeping things on hold with his partner Pikachu. Thanks to image they formed about themselves.

Bringing me to conclusion how pokemon anime will crash down and end up cancelled before Ash would ever be replaced.

 

[Magmaster12]

w

I seriously doubt they would ever get rid of Ash. ever.

However the Mega Evolution specials show that even the writers must be sick of Ash by this point.

How do you connect the Mega Evolution Specials with the writers being sick of Ash when they referenced Ash positively in the first Special?

Because they could have easily used Ash in the special instead but they didn't

If that's true then they were also sick of him years ago with Chronicles

Because the point of Chronicles was to showcase other characters, it also didn't preempt episodes like the mega evolution special

 

[Beth Pavell]

Re: w

I seriously doubt they would ever get rid of Ash. ever.

However the Mega Evolution specials show that even the writers must be sick of Ash by this point.

How do you connect the Mega Evolution Specials with the writers being sick of Ash when they referenced Ash positively in the first Special?

Because they could have easily used Ash in the special instead but they didn't

If that's true then they were also sick of him years ago with Chronicles

Because the point of Chronicles was to showcase other characters, it also didn't preempt episodes like the mega evolution special

Not really. The specials are showcasing a parade of Mega Evolutions. To do that with Ash would have meant bringing back one of his pokémon Charizard and finding an excuse for him to battle a succession of other Mega Evolutions. And considering how few specials have aired compared to how many main series episodes, it doesn't look much like a writer's excuse to get out of writing as so much as a marketing ploy. It's not like Alain's a particularly deep character, with his grumpy bear mannerisms and the snapping out his lines like a cool guy

 

[BlackButterfree]

I am probably in the minority, but I love Ash and Pikachu. The anime really wouldn't be the same without them. But at the same time, I get really sick of the whole "forever ten, yet somehow has traveled throughout six countries on foot in less than a year" stuff. I also get sick of the whole "I lose every league I compete in, then make rookie mistakes whenever I get to a new country" stuff. I love Ash when he's at his best AKA being an amazing battler (the entirety of Sinnoh) and never forgetting that he has a past (Charizard and Butterfree's episodes in Best Wishes for example)

I've been saying this for years. Yu-Gi-Oh! was able to make sure that Yugi (the protagonist) never lost a single battle, unless it was a really important plot device (sacrificing himself for a friend, etc.) and they always had another goal, another level for him to rise to once he won it all. The Pokémon anime has already established that Ash wants to be a Pokémon Master. Well, who said that means JUST winning ONE league in ONE country? Why does the show have to end there? Ash can keep winning, become a Champion of one tournament, challenge the E4, challenge other Champions, join the police like Looker or Lance (as someone mentioned above). I mean, there's more to being a Master than battling and yet that's all Ash focuses on. The anime can go very far with Ash's goal, and yet they haven't... So...

 

[Shadao]

I am probably in the minority, but I love Ash and Pikachu. The anime really wouldn't be the same without them. But at the same time, I get really sick of the whole "forever ten, yet somehow has traveled throughout six countries on foot in less than a year" stuff. I also get sick of the whole "I lose every league I compete in, then make rookie mistakes whenever I get to a new country" stuff. I love Ash when he's at his best AKA being an amazing battler (the entirety of Sinnoh) and never forgetting that he has a past (Charizard and Butterfree's episodes in Best Wishes for example)

I've been saying this for years. Yu-Gi-Oh! was able to make sure that Yugi (the protagonist) never lost a single battle, unless it was a really important plot device (sacrificing himself for a friend, etc.) and they always had another goal, another level for him to rise to once he won it all. The Pokémon anime has already established that Ash wants to be a Pokémon Master. Well, who said that means JUST winning ONE league in ONE country? Why does the show have to end there? Ash can keep winning, become a Champion of one tournament, challenge the E4, challenge other Champions, join the police like Looker or Lance (as someone mentioned above). I mean, there's more to being a Master than battling and yet that's all Ash focuses on. The anime can go very far with Ash's goal, and yet they haven't... So...

I guess the reason why he hasn't won a league yet is because the main games do not really offer a different goal other than "Defeat 8 Gym Leaders, win the Pokémon League, and become Champion."

 

[Boshi234]

I doubt it because Ash is the main character of the anime and this is the kind of fictional character that can keep going until the end of the world because hey didn't they replaced Ash's voice? so this new voice actor (gender neutral) can be Ash for let's say 13 years and then suddenly the new fans will get mad when they replace Ash's voice and it will be part of some twisted cycle that never ends.

 

[Shadao]

I doubt it because Ash is the main character of the anime and this is the kind of fictional character that can keep going until the end of the world because hey didn't they replaced Ash's voice? so this new voice actor (gender neutral) can be Ash for let's say 13 years and then suddenly the new fans will get mad when they replace Ash's voice and it will be part of some twisted cycle that never ends.

While the English dub has indeed changed voice actors for Ash, the Japanese voice actor for Satoshi, Rica Matsumoto, has been the same since the beginning of the show.

 

[Muur]

He'll still be here for the 40th anniversary.

 

[Perpetual_Phoenix]

Ash will stay as the shows main portagonist till the end of the anime. It's been so long that's it's almost impossible to replace him.