• Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.
  • Pronoun field selections have been updated! To ensure they show up correctly, please reselect your preferred option(s) in the Account details page. Click here for more information.

The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

Is the Fairy-type OP?


  • Total voters
    59

Gaga

▲ extremely gay
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
921
I want Ninetales as a Fairy. I feel like Fairy would suit it better than the Psychic typing lots of people wanted for. Plus it would be a different type of Fairy than we have so far. But most importantly because it's my favorite Fire type.
Mawile's type should be retyped to Steel/Ghost.
Fun fact: When I initially played R/S, I assumed Mawile was ghost just by appearance. It was only in Gen 4 that I learned it was actually Steel :V
 

Envoy

Formerly GTT
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,994
Reaction score
702
Okay, lots to go through.

@Dog of Hellsing Actually, I believe that with a Choice Band, one Technician boosted Bullet Punch from Scizor can OHKO most Dragon types after Stealth Rock damage. The obvious exception would be the defensively trained ones (such as a defensive D-Nite or Latias,) but those usually don't have the raw power to take out Scizor before it can 2HKO them with BP.

That said, I really don't get where you're going with this, as my post was about Scizor taking out Fairies, not Dragons.

Also, HELL NO on Ice resisting Grass. Grass is another of the underpowered types. Do you really want to buff one of the weaker types by nerfing another? If Ice resisted Grass, that would mean that Grass is resisted by EIGHT freaking types. That is literally one away from half the type chart. So, HELL NO to that. It should resist Water, and maybe even Bug, but NOT Grass.

@Paris Bellossom as a Grass/Fairy would be epic.

@NoirGrimoir It is possible that Fairy Wind's BP is that low, I haven't ruled that out. However, I'm not gonna say it's likely. They had no problem showing off Moon Blast (which looks to be at least a decently powerful move) and the whole point of the trailer was to make the Fairy type look good. I don't know how showcasing a Poison Sting-esque move would help achieve that.

It's also worth noting that Fairy Wind hasn't been shown to have a secondary effect (Poison Sting poisons, Pin Missile hits multiple times, Astonish flinches.) Granted, the footage cut away immediately after the super effective message appeared, so it's possible we just didn't see the secondary effect come into play, but it's still something worth making note of.

With that said, in my opinion, the aesthetics of Fairy Wind, while not as impressive as, say, Hyper Beam or Leaf Storm, seemed to imply that it was at least a mid tier Fairy type move (Bubble, Poison Sting and Vine Whip aren't visually impressive. In general, the stronger a move is, the more powerful it looks. There are exceptions, and this could be one of them, but that's just my opinion.)

@Zweilous You are correct in stating that we don't have all the data, which is why I'm still suggesting you take my calculations with a grain of salt. I must say, however, that if they went out of their way to give Hydreigon 0 HP IVs and 0 HP EVs (which they did, that part can be corroborated,) why would they keep the 31 Sp. Def IVs or give it Sp. Def EVs? Wouldn't that be counterproductive, since the point was to show off the Fairy type. Giving the target of a Fairy type move the durability to take the hit would be doing the Fairy type a disservice.

Again, this isn't conclusive proof of anything, because the truth is that we don't have all the data right now, but it is something to think about.
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
4,590
Reaction score
982
Regarding the Fairy Wind move, I have a feeling it really does do incredibly low damage. 20 or 25 sounds about right. Considering Furabebe was shown using the same move, I think it's the "generic low-level starter move" for the type. Basically the Fairy equivalent to Pound/Peck/Water Gun/Vine Whip/etc. I believe Game Freak showed it in the trailers because it will be a very common move for fairy pokemon like Furabebe and Gardevoir to learn as they level up.
IIRC Bug Bite is also a commonly seen beginner STAB, with a base power of 60.
 

Rainbow

literal shrubbery
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
3,956
Reaction score
15
Fairy could work for Ninetails, but I'd kinda want Arcanine to gain a second typing too if that were the case (since they're kinda like counterparts)

I want more Normal types to gain it/be retyped than anything else though. (Clefairy, Audino, Snubull, Dunsparce, etc)
 

Dr. Buni

Take me away from here...
Joined
Dec 9, 2010
Messages
5,612
Reaction score
84
Fun fact: When I initially played R/S, I assumed Mawile was ghost just by appearance. It was only in Gen 4 that I learned it was actually Steel :V

It should, since it is based on an Youkai (Japanese ghost), but then again the same is valid for Manectric, Raikou, etc.

Also, I think Ninetales would work better as Fire/Ghost, it fits better with its Kitsune theme.
 

Envoy

Formerly GTT
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,994
Reaction score
702
Fairy could work for Ninetails, but I'd kinda want Arcanine to gain a second typing too if that were the case (since they're kinda like counterparts)

I think it's better if Arcanine doesn't get a secondary type. It's already superior statistically (it has a much higher BST) and has a wider offensive movepool (all Ninetales has going for it in this dept. is Energy Ball and Nasty Plot.) The only reason she's in a higher tier than him right now is because of the utility Drought provides. It has nothing to do with Ninetales' own merits. Giving her a second type and not him could actually help even them out.
 

Gaga

▲ extremely gay
Joined
Jun 27, 2012
Messages
3,051
Reaction score
921
The only reason she's in a higher tier than him right now is because of the utility Drought provides. It has nothing to do with Ninetales' own merits.
Hey, abilities are part of Pokemon's strength!
It counts as part of Ninetale's own merit!

Yes, I am saying this because of Magic Bounce and Espeon >:O
 

Infinity Mk-II

From Leyend to Myth
Joined
Oct 29, 2007
Messages
1,410
Reaction score
4
Lilligant and Whimscott look more likely of being retyped to Grass/Fairy than Bellossom. These two take partial inspiration from European folktale creatures (a dryad/forest nymph and a... elf barometz thing?), while Bellossom has its design too far from the Oddish line Mandrake and removes its poison, so it makes sense as a pure Grass I'd think.

On that note, even if they aren't retyped, I can see Lilligant and Whimsicott having Fairy moves... which will be very interesting. Lilligant would finally have coverage (and if Grass is SE to Fairy she wouldn't worry about being walled by them), while Whimsicott would appreciate whatever unique status moves the type will have (of which there probably will be many).


As for Fairy Wind's power... Gardevoir could be learning it on a later level than pokémon which are primarialy Fairy and since the start, like how the Kingdra line learned Twister. The visuals of Fairy Wind and Twister do look similarly strong too, so I think it is a BP 40.
This is the power of many other early-level (and by that I mean 10-15) yet-usable elemental moves, too. Ember, Water Gun, Powder Snow, Thundershock...

In fact, Dragon was technically introduced as an offensive type in Generation II, so I think it's fair to compare Gardevoir using Fairy Wind to Kingdra using Twister.
 

Dog of Hellsing

He Sees You...
Joined
Mar 11, 2010
Messages
1,934
Reaction score
0
Grass Type Trainer said:
Actually, I believe that with a Choice Band, one Technician boosted Bullet Punch from Scizor can OHKO most Dragon types after Stealth Rock damage. The obvious exception would be the defensively trained ones (such as a defensive D-Nite or Latias,) but those usually don't have the raw power to take out Scizor before it can 2HKO them with BP.

That said, I really don't get where you're going with this, as my post was about Scizor taking out Fairies, not Dragons.

Also, HELL NO on Ice resisting Grass. Grass is another of the underpowered types. Do you really want to buff one of the weaker types by nerfing another? If Ice resisted Grass, that would mean that Grass is resisted by EIGHT freaking types. That is literally one away from half the type chart. So, HELL NO to that. It should resist Water, and maybe even Bug, but NOT Grass.

I don't know any sites for calcing various stats and testing moves with them, or else I would have tried just to make sure.

Meh, don't ask. IDK why I was thinking Steel > Dragon XD. I think I got confused somewhere, it tends to happen a lot.

Grass doesn't need to stay resisted by all the types that currently resist it. Swap resisted by Dragon to resisted by Ice. I can see Steel losing its resistance to Grass (the idea being that foliage can overwhelm and completely encompass steel structures over time). Poison makes sense and imo Grass should be weak to Poison (swap resisted by Steel to resisted by Poison maybe).

What I really want to see is Normal gain a few strengths and resistances, rather than just being immune to Ghost. Resisting Psychic makes sense imo, maybe even being SE against it. Resisting Dark/Fairy also makes sense to me. IDK, it's just irritating to see a type that has a weakness and a several resisted-bys, but no strengths.

I still want a Poison/Steel Pokemon, preferably with Levitate lol.

Also there are a lot of Pokemon that could be retyped with Fairy. I'll make a list of things I can see as being retconned for Fairy:

  • Even though it's doubtful, Spiritomb and Sableye could both lose their Dark typing and gain Fairy
  • Mawile (secondary typing)
  • Petilil and Lilligant (secondary typing)
  • Bellossom (secondary typing)
  • Snubbull
  • Cleffa line
  • Happiny line
  • Budew line losing Poison > Fairy (another doubtful one)
  • Igglybuff line
  • Togepi line (with Tic and Kiss losing their Normal typing)
  • Dunsparce
  • Sneargle
  • Plusle and Minun (secondary typing)
  • Volbeat and Illumise (secondary typing)
  • Castform (weather forms would be dual typed obviously)
  • Chingling and Chimecho (secondary typing)
  • Lake Trio (secondary typing)
  • Cottonee and Whimiscott (secondary typing)
  • Munna and Musharna (secondary typing)
  • Audino
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
4,590
Reaction score
982
Or they could just spam Scizor's Bullet Punch and exploit the Steel weakness.

They could, except for Scizor's poor Speed which allows it to be outsped by pretty much every Dragon...
Forgetting that Bullet Punch is the Steel version of Quick Attack, are we? However, Scizor still goes down in one hit when the Dragon counters with Flamethrower.

As for me, taking into account the things NoirGrimoir said, instead of / in addition to a Fairy type, IMHO some of the things that should probably have happened with Dragon are:

- Make Outrage a Special move again, like it was in G2/3. Remember that in G4, not only was its base power boosted from 90 to 120 (a +33% boost) but Dragonite and Salamence (and also Garchomp) are all physically oriented fighters meaning that Dragonite's Outrage got an overall 1.7x boost in G4 and Salamence's Outrage is overall 1.5x stronger than it was in G3. If GF decides to make Outrage a Special move again then Dragonite, Salamence, and Garchomp go down a mild notch (though Hydreigon goes up a notch), but more importantly no more Swords/Dragon Dance Outrage sweep combos anymore. (I really don't understand why they made it physical in G4 at all; its in-game animations LOOK like a Special move.)

- Allow all damage-reducing Berries to work on ANY pokemon (like Chilan berries do). I know these berries are intended primarily to shield a Pokemon against one of its weaknesses but it also prevents Haban berries from being effective in precisely the ONE situation where you need them the most: Countering powerful Dragon-type Pokemon.
 

Draco111115

New Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2013
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Just because they introduce a new type doesn't mean every cutesy pokemon has to be reconned into it. Less is more for a reason. Also, on principle, I don't think any legendary pokemon, even Celebi, should be retyped.
 

Guy_Spy

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
62
Reaction score
0
My list of possible Fairy-Type'mon. I think they could give the fairy type for up to 20 older pokémon. And they could also keep babies like Azurill, Cleffa and Igglybuff normal types and only becoming Fairies after evolve.

PS.: Mawile is labeled as "Already a Fairy-Type" according to the pokebeach's rumors.

ki0j.png
 

Shiny Celebi

AI Fae
Joined
May 14, 2010
Messages
29,843
Reaction score
2,755
Pronouns
she_they
Mawile has not been confirmed Fairy type, it's just rumored right now, part of the Pokebeach rumors, which havent all been proven. It is still and unconfirmed rumor and should be treated as such unless official sources confirm it.
 

Rainbow

literal shrubbery
Joined
Apr 29, 2010
Messages
3,956
Reaction score
15
I don't see Arceus having that good of a chance to become Fairy. It's Normal type so that it can become any type. Without a doubt we would get a Fairy Plate.
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
4,590
Reaction score
982
Seriously doubt Arceus's native type will be Fairy -- it already has Multitype so all it needs is a Fairy Plate. (Otherwise, it needs a Normal Plate.)
 

Guy_Spy

New Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2006
Messages
62
Reaction score
0
Arceus is there because of a possible "Fairy Plate". But we don't know if the Fairy-Type Arceus could be treated like the "???-Type Arceus" without a proper plate, so is just speculation.

And regarding Mawile, she have "more" chances to become a fairy-type then any other pokémon because of the unconfirmed rumour. I put an asterisk above her and Marill/Jigglypuff evolutions because of this. But the entire list is just my speculation so is not a big deal to treat Mawile as a "semi-confirmed" Fairy-Type.
 

Envoy

Formerly GTT
Joined
Jul 5, 2009
Messages
2,994
Reaction score
702
I don't think Meganium will become a Fairy type. The Johto Starter's whole shtick is that the three of them are monotype (the only Starter trio to remain monotype throughout the games thus far.) I don't see them changing that.

On a personal note, if it would give Meganium a niche that could finally garner some respect from players, I'd be all for it, though I am apprehensive about the potential 4x Poison weakness.
 

Vilendil

New Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2013
Messages
25
Reaction score
0
Surviving that hit doesn't mean it wasn't 4x weak, the move could've had a weaker BP, Gardevior could've had a bad IV/EV SPatk stat, Hydreigon could've had a good SpDef stat, so on and so forth. It wouldn't be the first time onscreen data was off for us.
Grass Type Trainer crunched some numbers, and while we can't rule out hidden factors like IV's or EV's (which could boost Gardevoir's attack power by +50% or outright double Hydreigon's defense) the outcome suggests that either Fairy Wind has a ridiculously low BP (like 20), or it's just not 4x effective on the Dark+Dragon in the first place, especially when Sylveon was seen OHKO'ing both a Haxorus and Salamence with Moonblast. Sylveon is not inherently stronger than Gardevoir (given Eeveelution's usual stat spreads and Gardevoir's Sp.Atk), and Hydreigon has about the same combined HP/Sp.Def as Salamence, we know they were using different moves so when Sylveon lands a OHKO but Gardevoir only about 50% damage, that's a minimum 2-to-1 base-power ratio between Moonblast (vs. Salamence) and Fairy Wind (vs. Hydreigon); if Fairy is SE on Dark then it jumps to a 4-to-1 ratio.

Hoping I'm not too late, but it got me thinking...

GrassTypeTrainer made a good point back in the thread, I got convinced about the likeability of KO should Fairy be 4x against Hydreigon.
But I also think they might still be on testing phase and the other types it is to be SE ou NVE against are yet to be tested. Maybe what we've seen was just a developing phase animation.
That way, I wouldn't rule out any possibility, even though I like Dark checks as they are - It was a reason else to keep a Bug type which I find really awesome.
 

Stratelier

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
4,590
Reaction score
982
That way, I wouldn't rule out any possibility, even though I like Dark checks as they are - It was a reason else to keep a Bug type which I find really awesome.
Speaking of which, Bug attacks already counter two legs of the Fighting-Psychic-Dark triangle. Then again, Bug Pokemon tend to have easily exploited weaknesses and there are a slew of types (second only to Grass) resistant to their attacks.
 
Please note: The thread is from 7 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
Top Bottom