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The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

Is the Fairy-type OP?


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FaerieStar

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Yôsei and Faerii may be (almost) the same thing in the real world, but they are making a distinction, after all, by using different terms.

In many languages, fairy egg group and fairy type have the same name.

Fairy (type) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Fairy (Egg Group) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

True. Still not the same name in the language in which the games are originally developed.
Not that this is important at all, anyway. Same name or not, they're different things. If horsea, the doragon species pokémon in the doragon egg group is not a doragon type, we can't confirm whether or not the yôsei species pokémon in the yôsei egg group will be fearî type.
 

vivian20

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But these games were developed in all languages at about the same time. And seadra has a dragon evo. So, granbull might earn a fairy evo if its not retconed to fairy type. And at least clefable should get a fairy type.
 

S.S. Shadow Minun

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Yôsei and Faerii may be (almost) the same thing in the real world, but they are making a distinction, after all, by using different terms.

In many languages, fairy egg group and fairy type have the same name.

Fairy (type) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Fairy (Egg Group) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

True. Still not the same name in the language in which the games are originally developed.
Not that this is important at all, anyway. Same name or not, they're different things. If horsea, the doragon species pokémon in the doragon egg group is not a doragon type, we can't confirm whether or not the yôsei species pokémon in the yôsei egg group will be fearî type.

Yes. The Japanese name for Fairy-type is "Fairy", but Fairy egg group is called "Yōsei". Not exactly same meaning in Japanese.
 

Lyra

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Wohoo Fairy type! Now those Dragon users will think twice before dragon dancing and outrage-ing.
 

Neptune's Disciple

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Yôsei and Faerii may be (almost) the same thing in the real world, but they are making a distinction, after all, by using different terms.

In many languages, fairy egg group and fairy type have the same name.

Fairy (type) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Fairy (Egg Group) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

True. Still not the same name in the language in which the games are originally developed.
Not that this is important at all, anyway. Same name or not, they're different things. If horsea, the doragon species pokémon in the doragon egg group is not a doragon type, we can't confirm whether or not the yôsei species pokémon in the yôsei egg group will be fearî type.

Further to that, there are several other pokemon in the Dragon egg group which are not dragons, nor do they evolve into dragons (the Charmander, Ekans, Treecko, Seviper, Feebas, Magicarp, and Scraggy families). The same can be said of the Water 1 and Water 3 groups, which include the Dratini, Delibird, and Stunfisk, and the Lileep, Anorith and Skorupi families respectively. Now, no one is calling for all of these to be re-typed to match their egg groups, so why should everything in Fairy be retyped? Egg group ≠ type
 

vivian20

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Im not saying everything in fairy egg group will be retyped, just that being in the fairy egg group increases the chances of being retyped. Exemple, all the pure dragon egg group pokemon are also dragon types. I just aded fairy points to the pokemons that are pure fairy group, just like i aded fairy points to the pokemons that learn moves that seems to be related to enchantments ( sing, attract, etc). Look at that post, i just added points to each "fairy like" feature, didnt say that pokes with high points WILL be fairy types.
 

FaerieStar

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Im not saying everything in fairy egg group will be retyped, just that being in the fairy egg group increases the chances of being retyped. Exemple, all the pure dragon egg group pokemon are also dragon types. I just aded fairy points to the pokemons that are pure fairy group, just like i aded fairy points to the pokemons that learn moves that seems to be related to enchantments ( sing, attract, etc). Look at that post, i just added points to each "fairy like" feature, didnt say that pokes with high points WILL be fairy types.

Well, I actually agree with the Faerie Egg group increasing the chances of being Faerie type. I just said it doesn't confirm it. So we agree on that.
 

Stratelier

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Further to that, there are several other pokemon in the Dragon egg group which are not dragons, nor do they evolve into dragons (the Charmander, Ekans, Treecko, Seviper, Feebas, Magicarp, and Scraggy families). The same can be said of the Water 1 and Water 3 groups, which include the Dratini, Delibird, and Stunfisk, and the Lileep, Anorith and Skorupi families respectively. Now, no one is calling for all of these to be re-typed to match their egg groups, so why should everything in Fairy be retyped? Egg group ≠ type

If Sceptile were part Dragon that could be quite awesome ... double resistance to Water and Electric, but do mind that 4x weakness to Ice.
 
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Lofty

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I agree on several things.

-Ground should do regular damage to Steel.
-Poison should be SE on Water and Fairy in addition to Grass.
-Grass should lose it's Flying weakness.
-Flying should instead be SE on Ground.
-Fairy should be SE on Ghost, Dragon, Psychic, and Fighting, while being weak to Poison, Grass, Dark, and Rock, all of which (bar Rock) will resist Fairy.
-Ice should be immune to itself, resist Water, and Water shouldn't resist Ice.
-Everything else should remain untouched.
 

vivian20

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I also think the move moon blast sugest that fairy type pokemon might be related to the moon. So, evolving throug moon stone might increase the chances of being a fairy type.
I also think that the fact they retconned marill might sugest that many pokemon will be retconed, as marill aparently dont have anything fairy related( like distorting dimensions, making everione fall asleep, etc). Marill also isnt the kind of pokemon that i would be sure about it being a water type if it was released now without its type or dex entry. It doesnt have fins. It isnt based on an animal that lives in water. The only thing that sugests water type is its color.
 

Cabecote

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I also think the move moon blast sugest that fairy type pokemon might be related to the moon. So, evolving throug moon stone might increase the chances of being a fairy type.
Nice theory ^^ Clefairy and Munna being Fairy type actually makes sense. Skitty it's possible because she's all cute and all. The Nidorans being Fairy would be awkward in my opinion :/
 

Green Zubat

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I'd rather see Ice resist Fairy than be super effective against it.

Then again, I've always wanted Ice to resist Flying, too.

Agreed. I also think Ice could do with resisting the following:
  • Electric: Ice does not conduct electricity very well
  • Grass: Same reason Grass is weak to Ice, though Grass would have to be strengthened in other ways so as not to screw it over
  • Bug: 〃
  • Dragon: 〃
  • Poison (?): I imagine toxins would be less effective at lower body temperatures, but don't quote me on that

EDIT: Woops, didn't see Aves' response; will edit this with a reply.
 

Dog of Hellsing

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I think this might be related to the direction they want to go with the fairy type. Maybe they won't limit the fairies to the Tinkerbell-like concept after all?

I really really hope not. Just because the few early revealed Fairy Mon are cutesy doesn't mean they all have to be. I can only hope they go the route of traditional folklore, which includes helpful fae as well as the more malignant ones. I can see Gardy and Sylvy being classed as "benevolent" Fairy Pokemon, whereas others like Spiritomb and Sableye (just using them as hypothetical examples here) would be classed as the more trouble-making Fairies.

My problem with every fairy Pokemon ending up as cute and feminine is that it's wasted potential. When you look at the lore of fairies, there's so much variety that would be great in Pokemon (orcs, goblins, banshees, elves, trolls, demons, etc). For them to all end up falling into the "winged little girls" category would be disappointing. There's Gardevoir so far at least, but still.

Amen. Gardy I can see as a Fairy because it's kinda elfin in appearance. I don't mind having cutesy Fairies going around sprinkling pixie dust on everything and waving tiny wands, but I'll be irritated if that's ALL the Pokemon that get Fairy as a type. I want to see a good mix of Fairies, cute, ugly, nice, mean, feminine, masculine, and everything else.

I dont see whats wrong with the stereotypical concept of fairy.

Maybe because it's uncreative, unimaginative, and ignores any possible chances at bringing unique Mon to the game? They can take Fairy in so many directions that taking the easiest and stereotypical road would be lazy and just plain stupid. So far this Gen is shaping up to be great with the Mon we've seen revealed, so I'm hoping the Fairy concept is explored in several different ways.

@Aves Just because Poison is good at bleeding doesn't mean it should be restricted to that class. Grass Pokemon are one of the best types for running annoying movesets (just look at Whimsi), but you don't see ALL Grass Pokemon being forced into the idea of being status-carriers. Some may carry status to help them set up (Chloro Venu using Sleep Powder to set up Growth, for example), but that's usually so they can sweep, not for the sole purpose of stalling out the foe.

Just because you make Poison more useful doesn't mean you're going to imbalance it or completely nullify its ability to stall. Some Poison Pokemon are meant to sweep, like Muk (have you seen that thing's Attack stat?) and others are meant to be defensive (Tentacruel is a great special tank). Making Poison a bit more versatile isn't going to change the defensive Poison Mon's place, it'll just make the offensive ones ACTUALLY able to be used. As it is now, Grass is Poison's only strength, yet Grass is checked better by other types (namely Fire and Flying). This renders it practically useless because the things it can do are done better by other types. Giving it a few more strengths would make it more viable.

Now like I've said, if they make Fairy weak to Poison, that right there will give Poison a giant boost as everyone scrambles to protect their precious Dragon Pokemon from the evil likes of Sylveon and Gardy. But giving Poison even one more strength would be enough to make it solidly useable. Make it SE on Water. This would also check Water running rampant and SPAMing Ice moves; hell, make Ice resist Poison so people actually need to use Ice Pokemon for Ice moves, because this thing with every Water Pokemon and it's mother knowing Ice Beam/Blizzard is ridiculous.
 

FaerieStar

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I think this might be related to the direction they want to go with the fairy type. Maybe they won't limit the fairies to the Tinkerbell-like concept after all?

I really really hope not. Just because the few early revealed Fairy Mon are cutesy doesn't mean they all have to be. I can only hope they go the route of traditional folklore, which includes helpful fae as well as the more malignant ones. I can see Gardy and Sylvy being classed as "benevolent" Fairy Pokemon, whereas others like Spiritomb and Sableye (just using them as hypothetical examples here) would be classed as the more trouble-making Fairies.

I think Spiritomb is ok as ghost/dark, since it's made of evil spirits. I do think Sableye is very faerie-like, however... but I don't think they'll change it either.
I'd make Sableye dark/faerie and Mismagius ghost/faerie.
 

Aves

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@Dog of Hellsing:

We don't seem to really disagree. I also think poison would be best if super effective against two types, those being water and fairy. I feel this is enough of a push. My only issue with more offensive power than this, re: bleeder strategy, is that power balance dictates a finite number of resources to be allocated to each type. I feel as far as past, present and future designs concerning poison, the better it is at offense, the less possible it will be to push its defensive orientation. I believe it would be more effective to continue to specialize it in this area than to spread its power around in a more versatile build. This being that there is really no synergy between poison's bleeder strategy an offense orientation. Since being effective against grass functionally does little to boost poison's power, this effectiveness stands in the way of poison being pushed more defensively, for no real benefit. It's also my opinion that the particularly poor match-ups poison has now (being only good against grass, which is useless) tends to make people want to overcompensate in response. Being someone who has worked on tweaking game development before, my experience has shown that tendency. I advocate for a holistic perspective, and that means looking at both poison and grass (as well as the rest of the other types).
 

vivian20

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The problem with scary fairies is that they might overlap in the concept of ghost. I think saying fairy type will be uncreative because most of the fairies will be cute and kind, is the same thing saying that ghost types are uncreative because most of them are scary and suck your soul/life energy.
Mismagius and misdreavus might be scary fairies, but they will be paired with the ghost type, wich is typically scary and mischievous. If a fairy will be scary, i think it should be paired with ghost or dark( the evil type) .
 

FaerieStar

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-Fairy should be SE on Ghost, Dragon, Psychic, and Fighting, while being weak to Poison, Grass, Dark, and Rock, all of which (bar Rock) will resist Fairy.

Giving Fairy so many weaknesses would defeat their purpose as being usable Dragon Slayers, in my opinion.

The problem with scary fairies is that they might overlap in the concept of ghost. I think saying fairy type will be uncreative because most of the fairies will be cute and kind, is the same thing saying that ghost types are uncreative because most of them are scary and suck your soul/life energy.
Mismagius and misdreavus might be scary fairies, but they will be paired with the ghost type, wich is typically scary and mischievous. If a fairy will be scary, i think it should be paired with ghost or dark( the evil type) .

I don't think scary faeries would necessarily overlap in the concept of ghost. In the cases they do overlap, just make them faerie/ghost, like I think Misdreavus should be. In the cases of truly evil faeries... yes, make them faerie/dark.
I agree with faerie not being uncreative because most of them will be cute. Actually, even if all faeries were cute, they could still be creative. The 5 official fairies at this moment are cute and good and all, yet they're quite different from each other (and I luv them 5 <3).

About Marill... It occured to me that they might have made them faeries because Azumarill looks a bit like an easter-egg-bunny-thing? Easter is a celebration to Spring and rebirth, so it makes sense to me.
 

vivian20

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I think fairies should only be weak to poison and steel. It should resist dark, ghost, dragon and fighting.
Marill might have earned a fairy type because its round with little arms and legs( no visible legs). It has the same body shape as jigglypuff. Game freak named yosei( wich may be translated as fairy) an egg group composed by many pokemon that are round with stub arms and feet, no visible legs. I concluded that this was their concept of fairy as soon as i learned about the fairy egg group. Well, egg groups generally are made by pokemon with similar body shapes. To game freak, fairies look like this, just like dragons are reptilians.

Also, i just looked at another move that might be retiped as a fairy type : lucky chant
The user chants a icantation. It doesnt have to do with psychic powers, its magic, an incantation.
Learning this move, might increase the chances of a pokemon becoming fairy type.
the single typed that learn this move are:
clefairy
raltz
kirlia
luvdisk
cherubii
cherrim
mismagius
mespirit
munna
musharna
pikachu
raichu
togepi
pichu
plusle
minun
spoink
grumpig
castform
audino
 

FaerieStar

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I think fairies should only be weak to poison and steel. It should resist dark, ghost, dragon and fighting.
Marill might have earned a fairy type because its round with little arms and legs( no visible legs). It has the same body shape as jigglypuff. Game freak named yosei( wich may be translated as fairy) an egg group composed by many pokemon that are round with stub arms and feet, no visible legs. I concluded that this was their concept of fairy as soon as i learned about the fairy egg group. Well, egg groups generally are made by pokemon with similar body shapes. To game freak, fairies look like this, just like dragons are reptilians.

Also, i just looked at another move that might be retiped as a fairy type : lucky chant
The user chants a icantation. It doesnt have to do with psychic powers, its magic, an incantation.
Learning this move, might increase the chances of a pokemon becoming fairy type.
the single typed that learn this move are:
clefairy
raltz
kirlia
luvdisk
cherubii
cherrim
mismagius
mespirit
munna
musharna
pikachu
raichu
togepi
pichu
plusle
minun
spoink
grumpig
castform
audino

I like that list (has Mismagius, then I like).
"Round with not legs" is a weird concept for a faerie type. Sylveon, Flabébé and Gardevoir are not like that by any means.
 
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