The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

[Aves]

Dark-types encompass cheating, dirty tricks, and malice. You can restrict Dark to those things.

No. In fact, dark type's special and status moves reference actual darkness. And even if this were not the case, other types can incorporate complex themes in their meaning. Your criticism that the light type is too vague is pretty much baseless.

There are only two moves that are explicitly like that: Dark Void and Night Daze.

So? Even if it were only a single move, or a single ability, or a single dark type pokémon with a theme tying it to darkness, it would be sufficient to demonstrate my point.

Dark Pulse is described as a horrible aura imbued with dark thoughts, so it is an example of malice.

It seems clear that it incorporates both things.

 

[Dakhem Uaid]

Dark type could be like vodou or something? Well, maybe I don't know the first thing about vodou, but that is not the point!

What I mean is, the malice and horrible thoughts and feelings of the Pokemon could create physical manifestations. Like some interpretations of witchcraft? Like a more evil version of telekinesis, sort of? Does this post make a whit of sense?

 

[LimitCrown]

Dark-types encompass cheating, dirty tricks, and malice. You can restrict Dark to those things.

No. In fact, dark type's special and status moves reference actual darkness. And even if this were not the case, other types can incorporate complex themes in their meaning. Your criticism that the light type is too vague is pretty much baseless.

There are only two moves that are explicitly like that: Dark Void and Night Daze.

So? Even if it were only a single move, or a single ability, or a single dark type pokémon with a theme tying it to darkness, it would be sufficient to demonstrate my point.

Those moves account for less than 7% of all Dark-type moves or 2/29. It isn't sufficient.

Dark Pulse is described as a horrible aura imbued with dark thoughts, so it is an example of malice.

It seems clear that it incorporates both things.

It only incorporates "dark", or evil, thoughts. It isn't a part of literal darkness.

 

[FaerieStar]

@FaerieStar; While the Dark type is the "Evil" type in Japan, it isn't exactly all about being demonic and brought from hell.

I have never said anything like that...

What I meant as in light/holy type, is that we don't need pokemons that are all for good with a halo above their head - a.k.a, angels.

That is a more precise description of what you understand by holy type. I wasn't thinking of a bunch of all good angels. The only angel I need is my Shedinja <3

Just because all the other games have angels vs demons (holy vs evil) as a given basic within their games, doesn't necessarily mean Pokemon needs one as well.

I haven't said, and I don't think, that Pokémon needs a Holy type. I don't even want a Holy type. I just said that it wouldn't be a copy of Digimon.

Gold Gummies?

Ok, I guess there is a golden item on side games that is related to Psychic Pokémon. That doesn't mean that gold equals psychic type, does it?
I mean... Pink Gummies in MD are for poison types... Does that mean that all pink things symbolize poison types? We have the pink bow in the main series for normal types, so... nope.

 

[Aves]

Dark-types encompass cheating, dirty tricks, and malice. You can restrict Dark to those things.

No. In fact, dark type's special and status moves reference actual darkness. And even if this were not the case, other types can incorporate complex themes in their meaning. Your criticism that the light type is too vague is pretty much baseless.

There are only two moves that are explicitly like that: Dark Void and Night Daze.

So? Even if it were only a single move, or a single ability, or a single dark type pokémon with a theme tying it to darkness, it would be sufficient to demonstrate my point.

Those moves account for less than 7% of all Dark-type moves or 2/29. It isn't sufficient.

Actually, yes, it is. This is basic, formal logic (modus tollens).

Dark Pulse is described as a horrible aura imbued with dark thoughts, so it is an example of malice.

It seems clear that it incorporates both things.

It only incorporates "dark", or evil, thoughts. It isn't a part of literal darkness.

Sure it is. Look at it visually, or many of the other physical dark attacks visually. They incorporate literal darkness. The dark type is called such because it fits both literally and metaphorically. Just like the light type would.

 

[LimitCrown]

Dark-types encompass cheating, dirty tricks, and malice. You can restrict Dark to those things.

No. In fact, dark type's special and status moves reference actual darkness. And even if this were not the case, other types can incorporate complex themes in their meaning. Your criticism that the light type is too vague is pretty much baseless.

There are only two moves that are explicitly like that: Dark Void and Night Daze.

So? Even if it were only a single move, or a single ability, or a single dark type pokémon with a theme tying it to darkness, it would be sufficient to demonstrate my point.

Those moves account for less than 7% of all Dark-type moves or 2/29. It isn't sufficient.

Actually, yes, it is. This is basic, formal logic (modus tollens).

Dark Pulse is described as a horrible aura imbued with dark thoughts, so it is an example of malice.

It seems clear that it incorporates both things.

It only incorporates "dark", or evil, thoughts. It isn't a part of literal darkness.

Sure it is. Look at it visually, or many of the other physical dark attacks visually. They incorporate literal darkness. The dark type is called such because it fits both literally and metaphorically. Just like the light type would.

You made a fallacious statement by saying that Dark-type special and status moves reference darkness when most referenced foul play/cheating/malice.

Also, how metaphorical would light need to be in order to make sense in the Pokémon world? Dark/Evil types were labeled this and were prone to be ostracized by others. What would Light be? You're viewing the Dark type too literally.

 

[FaerieStar]

Dark-types encompass cheating, dirty tricks, and malice. You can restrict Dark to those things.

No. In fact, dark type's special and status moves reference actual darkness. And even if this were not the case, other types can incorporate complex themes in their meaning. Your criticism that the light type is too vague is pretty much baseless.

There are only two moves that are explicitly like that: Dark Void and Night Daze.

So? Even if it were only a single move, or a single ability, or a single dark type pokémon with a theme tying it to darkness, it would be sufficient to demonstrate my point.

Those moves account for less than 7% of all Dark-type moves or 2/29. It isn't sufficient.

Actually, yes, it is. This is basic, formal logic (modus tollens).

Dark Pulse is described as a horrible aura imbued with dark thoughts, so it is an example of malice.

It seems clear that it incorporates both things.

It only incorporates "dark", or evil, thoughts. It isn't a part of literal darkness.

Sure it is. Look at it visually, or many of the other physical dark attacks visually. They incorporate literal darkness. The dark type is called such because it fits both literally and metaphorically. Just like the light type would.

You made a fallacious statement by saying that Dark-type special and status moves reference darkness when most referenced foul play/cheating/malice.

Also, how metaphorical would light need to be in order to make sense in the Pokémon world? Dark/Evil types were labeled this and were prone to be ostracized by others. What would Light be? You're viewing the Dark type too literally.

I agree with LimitCrown in this one.
Actually, the translation of the Japanese name would be Evil Pulse, not literal darkness related at all. Only Night Daze and Dark Void are related to literal darkness.
Then we have ghost with Night Shade, Shadow Ball, Shadow Claw, Shadow Punch, Shadow Sneak, Shadow Force... Pretty much related to literal darkness, too. So ghost type encompasses darkness, too... and better than dark type, I guess?

Even if we afirm Dark type encompasses literal darkness because Night Daze and Dark Void, then Normal Type with Moonlight/Morning Sun/Flash would encompass literal light... Same with Psychic with Light Screen or even Grass with SolarBeam. By this logic, a Light type wouldn't make much sense, anyway, since we have three light types already...

 

[Life]

By this time, I'm really calm at the fact we have a new type. I hope it will become weak to Poison such as the rumors have said, and additionally I hope some minor changes are made to the chart. When you think about it, Fairy = Dark, meaning that both types came out in a different generation than the type they were meant to be SE against, and both (possibly/rumored) are immune to the types as well.

As to the light type possibly being a new type if they were ever to make a new type thing, I really doubt it. I think Fairy is right next to Light on the similar scale. I've always found "Light type" to be sort-of-a mix between types. Besides, as long as they do it right with Fairy, I don't see a need for new types to come out anytime soon.

 

[Cute Charm]

I'm confused...why do people still want Light to happen as a type? Just because Dark is called Dark? If it was still called Evil would we be having the same discussions over and over again?

Because seriously, there's a lot of other types that can be made before Light happens (Glass and Radioactive to name a few off the top of my head.). Not to mention a majority of the preexisting types would be considered "light" as it is both literal and figuratively. The only ones solely on the "darkside" of things are ghost (Literal darkness) and Dark (Figurative evil darkness).

 

[FaerieStar]

Dark type could be like vodou or something? Well, maybe I don't know the first thing about vodou, but that is not the point!

What I mean is, the malice and horrible thoughts and feelings of the Pokemon could create physical manifestations. Like some interpretations of witchcraft? Like a more evil version of telekinesis, sort of? Does this post make a whit of sense?

Yes. This is pretty much how Nasty Plot and Dark Pulse are described. It's like... the energy of evil thoughts...

 

[The Dude]

I love the idea of the Fairy type, because it can be a wide umbrella encompassing a number of mythical, mystic, and magical creatures. It could end up being the catch-all Magic type in a sense. My worry, though, is that it might be poorly implemented in the actual game. Like, that Fairy pokemon end up all being as flimsy as tissue paper. Most of the old Pokemon that could be re-typed as Fairy are not very good, and adding a type to them wouldn't improve them to the point of viability.
I'd like to comprehensively run down the Pokemon that could either gain Fairy typing, or evolve into something with Fairy typing. And the moves that could change as well. I mean, if Bite could become Dark? Everyone's doing this, but I wanted to do it myself.
Pokemon that might gain a Fairy type:
Cleffa/Clefairy/Clefable (IT IS IN THE NAME)
Mawile + evolved form because COME ON THIS GUY NEEDS LOVE, IT'S SUCH A RAD POKEMON CONCEPTUALLY
Audino (duh?)
Happiny/Chansey/Blissey (pink, benevolent, blobbish, of indeterminate origin)
Snubbull/Granbull - hahaha, Snubbull is literally the Fairy Pokemon. Plus, people might actually use Granbull if it was part Fairy. Probably still not, though.
Skitty/Delcatty (this is arguable one way or the other, because they could easily stay Normal as well)
Plusle/Minun (although, who cares besides their six or seven diehard fans)
Pachirisu
Cottonee/Whimsicott (Whimsicott is based off of the Vegetable Lamb of Tartary, a mythic legend thingy, so Fairy would not be a huge stretch for it, at least)
Lilligant (while we're at it, might as well do it for the counterpart to Whimsicott, which looks fairy-like)
Volbeat/Illumise and/or evolutions for both (I dunno, it seems possible, Illumise at least, it looks like a Bug Fairy)
Ninetales (the whole kitsune thing could be tied in if Fairy is a catch-all magic type)
Dunsparce + evolution (a Dunsparce evolution is the Number One thing I want in X/Y, to be honest. DUNSPARCE SUPREMACY)
Bellossom
Mime Jr./Mr. Mime
Gothita/Gothorita/Gothitelle
Misdreavus/Mismagius (the magic thing again)
Castform
Chimecho
Lickitung/Lickilicky (mostly the pinkness)
Finneon/Lumineon
Milotic
Gorebyss
Alomomola
Luvdisc
Phione
Manaphy
Uxie/Azelf/Mesprit (because they are literally psychic fairies)
Mew
Mewtwo alternate "FORME"
Wynaut/Wobbuffet (WYNAUT?)
Cresselia
normal Shaymin
alternative Wurmple evolution line
Snorunt/Glalie (only because a few have suggested it, I don't think it'll happen)


Now, this is just an EXHAUSTIVE LIST OF POSSIBLES. Most of them will not come to pass.

Moves that might turn:
Charm
After You
Assist
Covet
Egg Bomb
Bestow
Captivate
Follow Me
Heal Bell
Lovely Kiss
Moonlight or Morning Sun
Doubleslap
Natural Gift
Safeguard
Sing
Softboiled
Sweet Kiss
Wish
Cosmic Power
Lunar Dance
Lucky Chant

The problem is that the vast majority of attacks that could be made Fairy are Status. I think almost all damaging Fairy type moves will be new.

 

[Dakhem Uaid]

I DOUBT that moves will get type changes.

 

[LimitCrown]

Skitty won't be retyped because it can have the ability called Normalize, which makes all moves Normal-type.

 

[The Dude]

I DOUBT that moves will get type changes.

Bite was retyped from Normal to Dark in Gen. II, so there is a little bit of a precedent. But my list was trying to point out that even if there is, it won't have much of a point because it would be pretty much just Status moves being retyped.

 

[Rainbow]

I pretty much agree with The Dude's list of moves. Some of those just never struck me as "Normal", especially ones like Wish and Cosmic Power.

 

[Aves]

You made a fallacious statement by saying that Dark-type special and status moves reference darkness when most referenced foul play/cheating/malice.

Nope. I only stated that such moves exist in the dark type (specifically, special and status dark type moves), and they do. I said nothing whatsoever about what percentages were involved, only you brought up this irrelevant point.

Also, how metaphorical would light need to be in order to make sense in the Pokémon world? Dark/Evil types were labeled this and were prone to be ostracized by others. What would Light be? You're viewing the Dark type too literally.

How am I viewing the dark type literally, exactly? It seems to me I've only made a very modest statement that the dark type has some ties to literal darkness. It does.

Nor is there any reason why your question of how metaphorical the light type would actually be (as compared to what, dark?) is in any way a problem to discuss. This is a non-issue, much like many of the similar arguments which were brought up earlier in this thread about the fairy type (by you and others, I will add).

I agree with LimitCrown in this one.
Actually, the translation of the Japanese name would be Evil Pulse, not literal darkness related at all. Only Night Daze and Dark Void are related to literal darkness.
Then we have ghost with Night Shade, Shadow Ball, Shadow Claw, Shadow Punch, Shadow Sneak, Shadow Force... Pretty much related to literal darkness, too. So ghost type encompasses darkness, too... and better than dark type, I guess?

Even if we afirm Dark type encompasses literal darkness because Night Daze and Dark Void, then Normal Type with Moonlight/Morning Sun/Flash would encompass literal light... Same with Psychic with Light Screen or even Grass with SolarBeam. By this logic, a Light type wouldn't make much sense, anyway, since we have three light types already...

I'm not sure how any of that matters. The theme of darkness gets overlapped by dark and ghost. I don't find this surprising or problematic. Dark and ghost are also mechanically and thematically very similar. It's quite simplistic to try to pose issues against the light type as though it were only a contrary to dark; it seems likely that light type would interact with both dark and ghost in the type chart (and also poison, for that matter). Whereas references to literal light in other types lack, of course, the compound nature whereby they are associated (visually, thematically or otherwise) with metaphorical light. It's easy to see in the case of dark that this compounding happens, most clearly and blatantly with the special and status moves, but also with all other dark moves and dark pokémon.

What it comes down to is that types are not simple definitions. They actually include a lot of nebulous content that requires unpacking, otherwise you're going to have an overly simplistic understanding of their meaning.

 

[Life]

Skitty won't be retyped because it can have the ability called Normalize, which makes all moves Normal-type.

Normalize is only an ability used within the Skitty line. They could easily change the ability along with Skitty's type.

I'm not saying that they are going to retype Skitty, but it's always a possibility.

 

[LimitCrown]

How is that a non issue? There is not any way that a Light type will work in the Pokémon world physically because, like FaerieStar had said, physical light is already used by other types like Psychic, Grass, Normal, and Fire types. Also, a Light type wouldn't work metaphorically if it was "Holy" or "Good" because how would you ascribe to a Pokémon holiness or goodness?

Ghost-types deal with supernatural things like curses.

There are only 3 special moves, 12 status moves, and 14 physical Dark-type moves. There's only one special move and one status moves that deal with literal darkness, but those are signature moves of the Zoroark line and Darkrai, respectively. One is the Illusion Pokémon, while the other is a Pokémon that causes nightmares. Both Pokémon are perceived to be evil. Inducing nightmares is considered to be evil, and it is like a negative curse.

 

[FaerieStar]

I'm not sure how any of that matters. The theme of darkness gets overlapped by dark and ghost. I don't find this surprising or problematic. Dark and ghost are also mechanically and thematically very similar. It's quite simplistic to try to pose issues against the light type as though it were only a contrary to dark; it seems likely that light type would interact with both dark and ghost in the type chart (and also poison, for that matter). Whereas references to literal light in other types lack, of course, the compound nature whereby they are associated (visually, thematically or otherwise) with metaphorical light. It's easy to see in the case of dark that this compounding happens, most clearly and blatantly with the special and status moves, but also with all other dark moves and dark pokémon.

What it comes down to is that types are not simple definitions. They actually include a lot of nebulous content that requires unpacking, otherwise you're going to have an overly simplistic understanding of their meaning.

Well, it's true that a Light type which includes boths literal and figurative light could exist without problem.
My point is that two moves involving literal darkness don't really make the Evil type about darkness. I can't see the grass type as a type that includes light in its definition. And if you do consider 3 types representing literal light... where's the need for one more?
The figurative light is not very represented, yeah, except for the fighting type and the righteousness, I guess.

Ghost and Dark are pretty similar attack-wise, yeah. They are complete opposites defensively, though. Thematically, dark types are about dirty playing, cheating, malevolence, with moves that include mostly dirty tactics, bullying and evil thoughts... Ghost types are spirits of the dead, scary/creepy things, reapers... clearly supernatural entities. Their moves include mostly scares, curses and shadow manipulation. So they're thematically not that similar, if you give it a thought. (This also doesn't really matter regarding the light type, anyway).

And yeah, types do include things beyond their definitions.

 

[LimitCrown]

Skitty won't be retyped because it can have the ability called Normalize, which makes all moves Normal-type.

Normalize is only an ability used within the Skitty line. They could easily change the ability along with Skitty's type.

I'm not saying that they are going to retype Skitty, but it's always a possibility.

But, because Normalize was a signature ability, they are less likely to remove that ability.