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The Fairy Type and Alterations to Type Chart

Is the Fairy-type OP?


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Stratelier

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The only thing that I hate about the fairy type is how it eclipsed the psychic type.
Except where Poison is concerned. Go up against a Belch Swalot sometime and you'll want a non-Fairy Psychic type to take it out.
 

Master Weasel

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I have another opinion on the Fairy-type that I'm sure is unpopular: Fighting did not need another weakness. A resistance? Sure. But not another weakness.

Most Fighting-types aren't tanks. Many of them have low or average defense. What makes them so strong are their moves. So what I think should have been done instead was make Fairy only a resistance while decreasing the power of some of these moves. Maybe even make a couple of the five types that are weak to them lose that weakness, and either become neutral or resistant. Because seriously, once you use one of your other five Pokemon to defeat a Fairy-type, assuming there was one there to begin with, what's going to stop Fighting-types from doing as much damage as before? A Normal-type with Play Rough, which again, might not always be there? Speaking of which, I would like to know how often a Normal-type gets to use that move on a Fighting-type before the Fighting-type outright KOs it. Sure, you can argue that the Fairy-type has still done its job of nerfing Fighting by giving it another weakness, but I personally don't think that was the best way to do it.

And why Dark-type needed another weakness, I'm still trying to figure out. The best reason I can think of is because Steel lost its resistance to it. But I think the Bug-type has it even worse. Just why did it need another resistance?

These are just more example of how I think adding another type just complicates things versus re-working what you already have to fix any balance issues at their source. While Pokemon will never be truly balanced with there being 718 species, many moves, abilities, items, etc. and more just being added, some solutions will bring you closer to that balance than others.
 
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Peeko

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I have another opinion on the Fairy-type that I'm sure is unpopular: Fighting did not need another weakness. A resistance? Sure. But not another weakness.

Most Fighting-types aren't tanks. Many of them have low or average defense. What makes them so strong are their moves. So what I think should have been done instead was make Fairy only a resistance while decreasing the power of some of these moves. Maybe even make a couple of the five types that are weak to them lose that weakness, and either become neutral or resistant. Because seriously, once you use one of your other five Pokemon to defeat a Fairy-type, assuming there was one there to begin with, what's going to stop Fighting-types from doing as much damage as before? A Normal-type with Play Rough, which again, might not always be there? Speaking of which, I would like to know how often a Normal-type gets to use that move on a Fighting-type before the Fighting-type outright KOs it. Sure, you can argue that the Fairy-type has still done its job of nerfing Fighting by giving it another weakness, but I personally don't think it was the best way to do it.

And why Dark-type needed another weakness, I'm still trying to figure out. The best reason I can think of is because Steel lost its resistance to it. But I think the Bug-type has it even worse. Just why did it need another resistance?

These are just more example of how I think adding another type just complicates things versus re-working what you already have to fix any balance issues at their source. While Pokemon will never be truly balanced with there being 718 species, many moves, abilities, items, etc. and more just being added, some solutions will bring you closer to that balance than others.
I agree that the type matchups were much better before Fairy-Type was introduced. However, I do get the idea that Nintendo had, limiting the Dragon-Type. But still, couldn't they have just made Bug or something super-effective against Dragon?
 

The Outrage

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I have another opinion on the Fairy-type that I'm sure is unpopular: Fighting did not need another weakness. A resistance? Sure. But not another weakness.

Most Fighting-types aren't tanks. Many of them have low or average defense. What makes them so strong are their moves. So what I think should have been done instead was make Fairy only a resistance while decreasing the power of some of these moves. Maybe even make a couple of the five types that are weak to them lose that weakness, and either become neutral or resistant. Because seriously, once you use one of your other five Pokemon to defeat a Fairy-type, assuming there was one there to begin with, what's going to stop Fighting-types from doing as much damage as before? A Normal-type with Play Rough, which again, might not always be there? Speaking of which, I would like to know how often a Normal-type gets to use that move on a Fighting-type before the Fighting-type outright KOs it. Sure, you can argue that the Fairy-type has still done its job of nerfing Fighting by giving it another weakness, but I personally don't think that was the best way to do it.

And why Dark-type needed another weakness, I'm still trying to figure out. The best reason I can think of is because Steel lost its resistance to it. But I think the Bug-type has it even worse. Just why did it need another resistance?

These are just more example of how I think adding another type just complicates things versus re-working what you already have to fix any balance issues at their source. While Pokemon will never be truly balanced with there being 718 species, many moves, abilities, items, etc. and more just being added, some solutions will bring you closer to that balance than others.
I somewhat disagree on this point. Look at ice types. Ice beam is a very popular move, and ice is a very good offensive typing, yet ice types don't get the usage fighting types do. Game Freak's purpose was to bring the usage of fighting types down, not just their moves.
 

Orion-Sama

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I don't see how is the Fairy type overpowered. It certainly isn't any more overpowered than the Types it was made to counter before its existence. Plus it gives much needed leverage to Poison Types as a whole, and shakes up move usage quite a bit. It is skewed toward it right now because it's the Type's introduction and obviously people want to try the new thing and also be ready for it. Other than that, I don't see how it's overpowered by design. Only thing I see as unnecessary is its resistance to Bug. For the rest it doesn't sound too bad. You don't have to use Poison or Steel Types. There's always moves of such Types, just like Ice moves have always been used while Ice Pokémon are ignored.
 

Master Weasel

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I have another opinion on the Fairy-type that I'm sure is unpopular: Fighting did not need another weakness. A resistance? Sure. But not another weakness.

Most Fighting-types aren't tanks. Many of them have low or average defense. What makes them so strong are their moves. So what I think should have been done instead was make Fairy only a resistance while decreasing the power of some of these moves. Maybe even make a couple of the five types that are weak to them lose that weakness, and either become neutral or resistant. Because seriously, once you use one of your other five Pokemon to defeat a Fairy-type, assuming there was one there to begin with, what's going to stop Fighting-types from doing as much damage as before? A Normal-type with Play Rough, which again, might not always be there? Speaking of which, I would like to know how often a Normal-type gets to use that move on a Fighting-type before the Fighting-type outright KOs it. Sure, you can argue that the Fairy-type has still done its job of nerfing Fighting by giving it another weakness, but I personally don't think that was the best way to do it.

And why Dark-type needed another weakness, I'm still trying to figure out. The best reason I can think of is because Steel lost its resistance to it. But I think the Bug-type has it even worse. Just why did it need another resistance?

These are just more example of how I think adding another type just complicates things versus re-working what you already have to fix any balance issues at their source. While Pokemon will never be truly balanced with there being 718 species, many moves, abilities, items, etc. and more just being added, some solutions will bring you closer to that balance than others.
I somewhat disagree on this point. Look at ice types. Ice beam is a very popular move, and ice is a very good offensive typing, yet ice types don't get the usage fighting types do. Game Freak's purpose was to bring the usage of fighting types down, not just their moves.
True. A part of me does think the main reason Fighting got another weakness is because Gen. 5 introduced the most Fighting-types. But still, I don't think we will see the "true" nerfing until Gen. 7 and beyond. Bumping the number of weaknesses from 2 to 3 really isn't that bad. Fighting, as well as Dragon, are still powerful types, they just have to be a tad more careful now. (Pangoro, Scrafty, and Hydreigon, on the other hand, really need to watch out though from now on.) Hence, why I think nerfing them directly would have been more effective than giving them a new weakness. Plus, I hate that Mienshao is weak to Fairy.
 

Zeta

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I feel like any problems with the type chart as of GVI are largely unrelated to the Fairy/Dragon paradigm. I don't like the way Ghost types feel a tad on the unstoppable side now with the changes to Steel. I think that's an issue that will probably need to be addressed next generation. I'd also like to see the issue of the weaknesses of Ice and Bug types fixed. I certainly would not object to Ice-types resisting Fairy Pokemon (since it's a temperature extreme like Fire) and the Fairy type's bug resistance being inverted into a weakness.
 

Alola

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The fact that Fairies have only two weaknesses, and their sizable strength/defenses, brings the Dragon problem back in my opinion. Clefable, Azumarill, Togekiss, Sylveon, Mawile to name a few, certainly are no walk in the park in the hands of a decent trainer or better.
 

Zeta

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I kind of wish they'd remake Fairy, Ghost, and Dragon into a type triangle to be honest. They're three types of Pokemon based on mythological creatures . . .

Fairy beats Dragon beats Ghost beats Fairy would be kind of cool.



The fact that Fairies have only two weaknesses, and their sizable strength/defenses, brings the Dragon problem back in my opinion. Clefable, Azumarill, Togekiss, Sylveon, Mawile to name a few, certainly are no walk in the park in the hands of a decent trainer or better.
There's no Dragon Dance + Outrage combo for Fairies, so I don't feel it's anywhere near as bad.
 

Ampharos King

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I also think Ghost should be nerfed; it hits at least neutral for 16 of 18 types. Also, they can't be trapped anymore. That's not right.

Water is in a similar boat, in my opinion. As of Gen VI, it is weak to only 2 types, resists 4 types, is resisted by 3 types (including itself), and hits super-effectively for another 3. Considering Water is the 2nd most common type, its place on the type chart is unfair. If anything, the less common types should be the ones with more resistances to make up for their sparsity.

Compare Water to Fire and Grass (the other starting types):
FIRE: Weak to 3 VERY COMMON attacking types (and Stealth Rock); hits super-effectively 4 types; resists 6 rarely used offensive types; and is resisted by 3 very common defensive types and itself.

GRASS: Weak to 5 attacking types (3 of which are commonly used); hits super-effectively 3 types (2 of which it shares with Water); is resisted by SEVEN types (including itself); resists four types (including itself).

Poison: Arguably the weakest offensive type in the game. Has a limited offensive spread. Weak to 2 types (with one of those types being weak against so much else, and plenty of Grass dual-types with the other type resisting or immune to Poison), weak against 2 types, resisted by 4 types, and resists against 5 types (including itself). I don't know why Ghost and Rock resist Poison. Poison has only four or five "over 90 BP" offensive moves, with two only as a result of a technicality (Venoshock and Belch).

Overall, Water should get an additional weakness, Grass an additional resistance, fewer types that resist Poison, and more types that resist Ghost.
 

Norzan

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I also think Ghost should be nerfed; it hits at least neutral for 16 of 18 types. Also, they can't be trapped anymore. That's not right.

Water is in a similar boat, in my opinion. As of Gen VI, it is weak to only 2 types, resists 4 types, is resisted by 3 types (including itself), and hits super-effectively for another 3. Considering Water is the 2nd most common type, its place on the type chart is unfair. If anything, the less common types should be the ones with more resistances to make up for their sparsity.

Compare Water to Fire and Grass (the other starting types):
FIRE: Weak to 3 VERY COMMON attacking types (and Stealth Rock); hits super-effectively 4 types; resists 6 rarely used offensive types; and is resisted by 3 very common defensive types and itself.

GRASS: Weak to 5 attacking types (3 of which are commonly used); hits super-effectively 3 types (2 of which it shares with Water); is resisted by SEVEN types (including itself); resists four types (including itself).

Poison: Arguably the weakest offensive type in the game. Has a limited offensive spread. Weak to 2 types (with one of those types being weak against so much else, and plenty of Grass dual-types with the other type resisting or immune to Poison), weak against 2 types, resisted by 4 types, and resists against 5 types (including itself). I don't know why Ghost and Rock resist Poison. Poison has only four or five "over 90 BP" offensive moves, with two only as a result of a technicality (Venoshock and Belch).

Overall, Water should get an additional weakness, Grass an additional resistance, fewer types that resist Poison, and more types that resist Ghost.
Along with that less types should resist Bug, with seven types resisting Bug Bug type is easily the worst offensive type in the game, at least two of the types that currently resist Bug should stop resisting it, with three of them being the ideal.
 

Ampharos King

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Along with that less types should resist Bug, with seven types resisting Bug Bug type is easily the worst offensive type in the game, at least two of the types that currently resist Bug should stop resisting it, with three of them being the ideal.
I almost forgot about Bug. Hitting 3 types super-effectively (2 of which are already hit super-effectively by Fighting/Fairy and Ghost, respectively), in exchange for 3 resistances, 3 weaknesses (all to very common attacking types), and 7 other types that resist Bug isn't good either.

Some of the more common Bug-types in the metagame are only made possible either because they are paired with a better typing (i.e. Scizor, Volcarona), or because they have wide coverage moves and high base stats (i.e. Genesect).
 

Norzan

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Along with that less types should resist Bug, with seven types resisting Bug Bug type is easily the worst offensive type in the game, at least two of the types that currently resist Bug should stop resisting it, with three of them being the ideal.
I almost forgot about Bug. Hitting 3 types super-effectively (2 of which are already hit super-effectively by Fighting/Fairy and Ghost, respectively), in exchange for 3 resistances, 3 weaknesses (all to very common attacking types), and 7 other types that resist Bug isn't good either.

Some of the more common Bug-types in the metagame are only made possible either because they are paired with a better typing (i.e. Scizor, Volcarona), or because they have wide coverage moves and high base stats (i.e. Genesect).
Fairy, Ghost and i'm going to say Steel (never understood why Steel resists Bug) should stop resisting Bug and Fairy should be actualy weak to Bug, i think this would greatly improve Bug type offensively or at least make it better.
 

Zeta

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Yeah, if I could screw around with the type chart for G7, I'd definitey:

* Water no longer resists Ice.
* Ice resists Water.
* Ice resists Fairy.
* Ice resists Dragon.
* Fairy weak to Bug.
* Fairy weak to Ghost.
* Ghost immune to Fairy.
* Ghost weak to Dragon.
* Dragon immune to Ghost.

For the more complicated issue of Grass's lackluster offensive powers, I'd consider either or both of these:
* Electric weak to Grass. (Grass needs an offensive buff and this is the only one that makes a lick of sense given Electric only has one weakness and Grass already resists Electric - it also kind of make sense given that trees can ground electric current).
Alternatively to Grass beating Electric or additionally:
* Dragon takes normal damage from Grass. (I know they want Dragon to resist the four main elemental special types of Grass, Water, Electric, and Fire - but while I can find tons of associations with dragons living in the sea, storms, or flames very little on a dragon living in a darn tree). This would also balance out Dragon now being immune to Ghost.

I think this would basically iron out everything pretty well.
 
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Ampharos King

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I really think Water and/or Flying should be weak to Poison.

Poison is apparently SE against Grass because plants are sensitive to and can be killed by many different type of poisons/herbicides. Water and air pollution is also responsible for the deaths of thousands of marine life and birds, respectively, each year. So why couldn't Flying types and Water types, who are exposed to pollutants in the air and water, respectively, be sensitive against Poison-type moves?

Making Water weak to Poison would also give the Azumarill line a 4x weakness to something, and consequently make Poison a more common offensive type (for that purpose). I also think the Lotad line should get the 4x weakness to better match with the Seedot line (with Nuzleaf and Shiftry having a 4x weakness to Bug).

@Zeta
1) Ice definitely needs to resist Water and Dragon, but I don't see how it would resist Fairy. I also agree that Water should take neutral damage from Ice, since freezing attacks would only turn Water into Ice (not the other way around).

2) I wouldn't want to make Fairy weak to Ghost, since Ghost is arguably the most powerful offensive type in the game.

3) I wouldn't want to give Ghost another immunity, either; it already has two immunities. Making Ghost immune to the second or third most powerful offensive type would make Ghost too overpowered as both an offensive and defensive type. If Fairy or another type resists Ghost, I wouldn't mind. Fairy has a fair number of resistances already, though.

4) As much as I would like Bug to have another weakness, making it SE against Fairy only hamper with Poison's current offensive match-ups. Poison and Bug are already in a similar situation with being SE against Grass-types (with plenty of Grass-types taking neutral from both because of their secondary typings). Poison's only decent niche right now is that it does deal 2x damage to some Fairies, and even then a few of the common Fairies are immune or resist Poison. Bug should be super-effective against something else, or at the very least have few less resistances (make Ghost, Fighting, and Fairy take 1x damage from Bug).

5) Should Dragon get another type advantage? Like Ghost, it also hits at least neutrally for 16 out of 18 types.

6) I agree with Grass being super-effective against Electric. In addition to giving Electric another weakness, it'd also give a real weakness to the Tynamo line and a big weakness to Rotom-W.
 
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BigBadButterfree

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I feel like the biggest thing that needs to happen is bug not being resisted by so many things.

Second, ice could use a few resistances (not bug, though...)

When fairy was first revealed, I thought it would be a sort of counterpart to dragon. I thought it would be strong against itself, as well as weak to dragon. So they would be like the same relationship to each other. Maybe not weak to dragon, but I certainly thought it coulda been weak to itself.

Oh, and I'm sick of ghost and dark being too similar offensively. Like, both good against ghost and psychic, so that was already weird enough... And now they both are no longer resisted by steel. I feel like even just making one still resisted by steel would differentiate the two a bit more.
 

Bolt the Cat

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When fairy was first revealed, I thought it would be a sort of counterpart to dragon. I thought it would be strong against itself, as well as weak to dragon. So they would be like the same relationship to each other. Maybe not weak to dragon, but I certainly thought it coulda been weak to itself.
Making Dragon and Fairy mutually weak to each other wouldn't really help with nerfing Dragon like they wanted, because then Fairy wouldn't be as useful for that purpose. It'd be too risky to send one out against a Dragon, especially when most Dragons can outspeed most Fairies.
 
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