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The general Pokemon League / end of Sinnoh / Generation V thread

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game3524

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It doesn't have to. These are fictional characters, they don't have to think logically like us.

It is poor writing though, if they go that route. Yeah, have her travel with Kenny, after you spent the last four years using her friendship with the main character as a key theme.

Oh well, we will just have to wait and see.
 

Cybersai

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It is poor writing though, if they go that route. Yeah, have her travel with Kenny, after you spent the last four years using her friendship with the main character as a key theme.

Oh well, we will just have to wait and see.

What's with the "friendship" stuff? Ash is good friends with everyone who traveled with him, not simply just Dawn.
 

game3524

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What's with the "friendship" stuff? Ash is good friends with everyone who traveled with him, not simply just Dawn.

True, but they have seemed to put more focus on Ash and Dawn's friendship this time around.
 

Chaosblazer

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^kinda have to agree to an extent, not to a shipping extent but after all the high fives, tag battles, and working off of each other's style's no one can really say they didn't have a close friend dynamic, this doesn't mean Dawn will stay or leave however that decision is up to the writers to decide.
 

Piplup

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Guys, please pardon my whining, but I'm feeling depressed right now. (yes, even a macho has feelings)

to make things worse, I'm lovesick... :bheart:

That's not manly at all, go get a dragon to replace your dog, it'd make you more masculine

That is true, but the option to leave with Kenny ends in DP180 IMO.

Why?
Ash wins, Dawn says the battle isn't important but only what she wants to do and that she's not sure at the moment and also wants to stay with Ash until the League's end, Kenny tell her to think about it and leave to Johto or whatever region, in the following eps Dawn is seen a little sad (like May after she heard her rivals go to Johto) and eventually in the final 2 eps Dawn will go to Johto/wherever Kenny went to find him and join him on his journey
Possibly Zoey and Ursula will appear and be involved too, like reveal they're going to the same region too

So no, just because Dawn didn't leave at that ep doesn't mean she can't leave later to find Kenny

this is true but I never thought Dawn leaving with Kenny was an option unless Kenny switched to gyms. I think Dawn will follow Zoey to whatever region she goes next to beat her in the next GF but she'll travel alone

There's no problem for rivals to travel together... it's only a problem if it's in the main cast and we actually see it, but if it's off screen - who cares?
Also, it's completely out of character for Dawn to travel alone and I'll never believe this has even a tiny chance of happening
She'll leave to travel with either Kenny or Zoey - I used to think Zoey, but since they made this ep I guess it'll be Kenny

I don't think May travels with her rivals,

This is another reason I believe Dawn will - they're trying to make them as different as possible
And again, it's out of character for Dawn to travel alone (especially after the last GF ep - "I have these awesome friends"... Dawn's whole story is about being supported by her friends and supporting others herself)

What's with the "friendship" stuff? Ash is good friends with everyone who traveled with him, not simply just Dawn.

Out of all Ash's travel partners, he had the most close relationship with Dawn... well, there's Brock but he'll always be seen more as an older brother figure...
Ash and Dawn's relationship is a best friends or brother/sister relationship
See their constant high fives (even a whole OP about it) and how the writers emphasized that they support each other a lot (see how Dawn did a whole show just to cheer Ash after he lost to Paul, how she constantly cheer him in Gyms, how Ash constantly cheer her in Contests and helped her when she doubted herself)

Of course, this doesn't mean anything for wether Dawn will leave or stay and sadly I think that everyone with a brain can realize it's 99% that Dawn will leave
 

Dexter

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^I don't think it would be out of character for Dawn to travel alone. I think it would be more out of character to not have her travel alone because she has been proven to come up with ideas all on her own. Traveling with Zoey would be out of the question unless she switched from contests to gyms because Dawn and her would compete in the same contests each time. And Kenny would be out of character to unless he switched to gyms.
 

maxh303030

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When did she "clearly" say that she wanted to stick with Ash forever and ever

*FacePalm*

What's with the "friendship" stuff? Ash is good friends with everyone who traveled with him, not simply just Dawn.

Haha it's because of the "highfives". *Since highfives are the word of the universe and always means eternal friendship (thinks about all the highfiving friends I had back when I was 10 years old that I don't have anymore)*
 

Masurao

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Also, it's completely out of character for Dawn to travel alone and I'll never believe this has even a tiny chance of happening
She'll leave to travel with either Kenny or Zoey - I used to think Zoey, but since they made this ep I guess it'll be Kenny

Meh, I would rather her travel with Zoey, traveling with a desperate lovesick guy is bad closure IMO. Better yet, just travel alone.
 

maxh303030

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Also, it's completely out of character for Dawn to travel alone and I'll never believe this has even a tiny chance of happening

Why? She was probably planning to travel alone if she never met Ash in the first place.
 

Cybersai

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She was going to travel alone in her first episode.

I don't see Dawn leaving being that tough a decision for the character. She's not glued to Ash by the hip, she can decide to do something else in a heartbeat.

The only reason the writers established the high five and stuff like that, is because they needed to make sure Ash and Dawn interacted differently than the old Ash/Misty or Ash/May friendships. They didn't want it to be a rehash of those, so they had to establish something new. It's not that they are so close, Ash is closer to Brock.
 

Dexter

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And if we were to get Dawn in Isshu we would be seeing a generation IV mascot in a Generation V series in every single episode which wouldn't seem right and make it seem that the writers are trying to do DP over again when we need to see a new mascot come out and take the stage with a new character.
 

pokemon fan 132

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Booting off Dawn after this saga would be like replacing Ash with the hero from Pokemon Gold/Silver in the start of Johto.

Way to blow things out of proportion.Ash was always considered as being the most important in this show,with him and Pikachu basically being icons of pokemon anime.

Dawn has been close to his level of importance for only one region,while Ash had been here for more than 11 years.

I already mentioned several points of evidence.

Not exactly,personal opinon from individual doesnt fall into category of cold established fact.
Alot of arguments being displayed here have certain doze of bias in them.

1) established voice actress for Dawn

Thats not good enough reason for staying.Brock and other characters who left had established voice actors too.

2) one of a kind promotion using Dawn and Piplup that parallel Ash and Pikachu

You cant compare their status to Ash and Pikachu who has been established icons for this anime from beginning,while Dawn was treated as "equal" for only one region.Speaking of which even in DP writers still give little more to Ash,treating him as little more important.

Comparing focus both got,while its by a minimal amount Ash still leads.

3) current state of the plot that makes Dawn's departure unlikely

Of course during league state of plot doesnt indicate how she will leave,but after that we have no idea in what direction writers will take this show.

4) changes in the anime franchise to promote Ash & Dawn as co-stars, ie. High Touch.

All of this will be given to next girl in case Dawn gets replaced.Writers are just improving over time handling characters better,which is the reason why each girl got more focus with each new saga.

5) unique circumstances due to older newer game characters

Ill give you that how including older teenage girl wouldnt make much sense,but this doesnt guarantee Dawns staying.

6) None of these ever being present for previous girl companions

Because Misty,May and Dawn are different characters having different goals and things going for them.Not to mention writing before 8 or 5 years wasnt on same level like its in these days.As time goes on,quality of writing is improving due to writers having more experience.
Thats why Dawn got more than others.

While it's true that Dawn and Ash are the only two protagonists the show's ever really had,

And May wasnt protagonist?
This doesnt make any sense.

Don't open Pandora's box, one of the few things I have learned on this board is to just to be quiet about anything Misty related.

Your making it seem like her fans are the problem when in reality they only respond to provocations and incorrect arguments being displayed toward her.

Also, I hate to bring her up, but Misty got absolutely no foreshadowing about leaving, and May got 1.

Thats true,we dont get some big spoectacular foreshadowing when some character leaves.Infact in Mistys case it was the worst,leaving in last minute with no closure leaving her story(like goal and other things)unresolved.
May didnt went much better only getting 1 episode,being rounded with rushed departure.

EDIT:From what i notioced all this arument is leading nowhere,We have two sides arguing whether Dawn will stay or leave but in end the only thing which matters is what will writers do.

Now im one of those who understand how anything can happen in this show,being determinated by what plot demands and writers wants.
Does Dawn has chance of staing?Some chance exists,but people who think how "her staying is definite" are really raising their expactations way too high,risking to be severely dissapointed if things doesnt follow path which they want to happen.

While i dont deny how my favorite character should return(for valid reasns due to lot of unused material)and has some chance(since nothing is impossible with writers deciding what will happen),im realistic enough not to raise my expectations being prepared for worse.
 

Spindae2

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She will probaly travel with Lyra , or something like that! Not with kenny that wouldn't be interesting!!
 

Piplup

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Dawn and her would compete in the same contests each time.

And...? How's that bad? Jessie participated in all the Contests Dawn did and both got their 5 ribbons
It'd be boring and stupid to see rivals in the main cast, but I can't see any reason NOT to do it when it's off screen
Also, we already saw both Dawn and Zoey skip some Contests, so it's not like they'll ALWAYS enter the same Contests...

Meh, I would rather her travel with Zoey, traveling with a desperate lovesick guy is bad closure IMO. Better yet, just travel alone.

I prefer Zoey too, but I can't see why would they make this ep if they didn't intend on Dawn's ending to be this way
It's a completely random suggestion that conveniently arrived just in time for Dawn to leave... I'm shocked people actually doubt this... it's pretty obvious that Dawn will leave to travel with Kenny =\

Why? She was probably planning to travel alone if she never met Ash in the first place.

She didn't know what she would go through at that time... she ended up supporting people (Ash, Maylene...) and being supported herself (Ash, Brock, Zoey, Johanna, May...)
Supporting others, being supported herself, being with friends instead of relying on mom - all were the main themes of Dawn's character
It's completely stupid and out of characer to make Dawn travel alone... and it's too similar to May, who they really try to make Dawn different from

I don't see Dawn leaving being that tough a decision for the character. She's not glued to Ash by the hip, she can decide to do something else in a heartbeat.

You're missing how the whole DP series emphasized how emotional Dawn is
She will decide to leave Ash, but she'll be more emotional about it than May's "ok guys I don't need you I'm going to hell alone kthxbye"
Also, Dawn doesn't have little Max to steal the emotional part and also had a stronger relationship with Ash to give reasons for their departure to be emotional
Yes, it could go the May way if they want... they can do whatever they want, but so far they made Dawn very different than May and I expect it to continue till the very end

The only reason the writers established the high five and stuff like that, is because they needed to make sure Ash and Dawn interacted differently than the old Ash/Misty or Ash/May friendships. They didn't want it to be a rehash of those, so they had to establish something new.

So why not stick with it until the end? Dawn will leave just like the others left, but she'll show more emotion than May did, possibly less than Misty since Dawn wouldn't be forced to do anything and it'd be her decision...
But there's definitely going to be at least a little more emotion than May

It's not that they are so close, Ash is closer to Brock.

Watch the whole DP series again, Brock is showcased more like a servant while the real friendship there is Ash/Dawn
(and no, I don't try to say Dawn will stay because of it, maybe just get a more emotional departure... but she'll definitely leave and we'll probably get the BW heroine Coordinator with Mijumaru as mascot)
 

Iteru

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She will probaly travel with Lyra , or something like that! Not with kenny that wouldn't be interesting!!

Kotone? That's a bit random in my opinion. Sure, her and Hikari and friends but they both have more valued friends.
How would leaving with Kengo not be interesting, if I may ask?
 

maxh303030

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I think Ash is closer to Brock... I see them as best friends. It's just not given their own little theme because he's not on a journey or anything. But they're definitely close companions. It's just overlooked because... how bland he became in the DP series..

EDIT I hope they don't give the BW girl Mijumaru. I just hope not. I hope.. Actually I don't know, but I'd think of it as way too convenient and similar. I already didn't really like Mijumaru anyway though so that might be it... Oh and about 'High Touch', no matter how many times i've seen it, I can't see why everybody gets this overwhelming idea that it is some huge pearlshipping commercial.
 
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Cascada

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I think we should get an arc dedicated to May and her rivals, an arc for Misty, and an arc for Dawn and her rivals before DP ends, all consisted of battling, shipping, and just pure epicness.

May's Johto Grand Festival
Misty's Whirl Cup
Dawn's Special Contest

All 3 girls win, and everyone's happy :)
 

Masurao

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I prefer Zoey too, but I can't see why would they make this ep if they didn't intend on Dawn's ending to be this way
It's a completely random suggestion that conveniently arrived just in time for Dawn to leave... I'm shocked people actually doubt this... it's pretty obvious that Dawn will leave to travel with Kenny =\

Anything could happen honeslty, I don't think it's obvious one way or another. I hope they give a legitmate reason for her to travel with him. Right now all we have to go on is he wants to battle Ash so she can travel with him, and he has a crush on her. She's nervous about it. Pretty lame reasoning to have her travel with him so far. He's also putting her in quite a bad spot. At least with Zoey she has a reson to follow her. Zoey's the mentor.
 
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