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The general Pokemon League / end of Sinnoh / Generation V thread

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MisterUrban

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I think the E4 and Cynthia thing had plenty of exposure already. I would rather see some other characters came cameo and be a surprise to us. Personally I dont care about the Paul story, he is only one characters, and was never shown to be "unbeatable", he is like anyone else with flaws and strengths.
They should emphasize how Ash adapts to each different type of trainer, instead of juggling pokemon around.
 

Cybersai

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The pacing in DP was handled badly overall. The lack of true filler doesn't matter, they still paced the arc badly in terms of rushing toward the end and leaving out things we probably should have gotten.

It really is surprising if both the Elite 4 and Battle Frontier don't happen, and at this point they probably won't. (They can't, due to lack of eps).

There was no reason to stretch Sinnoh over the course of 200 episodes, and we're not even getting a long league to make up for it. Even though there were some great things about this saga it still had its shortcomings.
 

MisterUrban

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What would be the whole point of an E4 arc? Just to watch Ash get his behind handed to him?
Then the whole battle frontier, I believe that was done in AG because the main series was running out of steam.
With Sinnoh they handled the main characters better, there was no Max (a big plus), and the overall story was well structured, showing steady developments instead of big jumps.
 

Jukain

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Should we honestly be surprised? All the ends of sagas were pretty rushed as far as I know. Except for Johto, they apparently could drag for weeks how they did things. While I did join the world of forums near the end of Johto, I do not have the memory to know if people considered it "rushed". I know the Battle Frontier was rushed, and the present saga has been in high gear for some time.
 
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Cybersai

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What would be the whole point of an E4 arc? Just to watch Ash get his behind handed to him?

Ash would get up to Cynthia, then lose. It would also allow more of Ash's older Pokemon to be used.

Then the whole battle frontier, I believe that was done in AG because the main series was running out of steam.

I believe Hoenn was shorter because people complained about Johto's length (it was back then the longest saga of the anime), and they wanted to advertise FR/LG and thought bringing them back to Kanto was the best bet.

This arc, they didn't want to bring them back to Johto, so they had no choice but to ignore the BF. Plus two BF's in a row would be repetitive, the first time it felt like something new.

With Sinnoh they handled the main characters better, there was no Max (a big plus), and the overall story was well structured, showing steady developments instead of big jumps.

This is all true, but they could have done the same story in a shorter time. I would have rathered DP be about 150-160 eps and the extra 40 be converted to something new.
 

MisterUrban

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I believe Hoenn was shorter because people complained about Johto's length (it was back then the longest saga of the anime), and they wanted to advertise FR/LG and thought bringing them back to Kanto was the best bet.

They could have easily created an anime only region like the Orange Islands, instead of going to Johto or a Battle Frontier. I remember many people were complaining AG wasn't classic pokemon. So they had to do something to keep people interested. That kind of talk has toned down, so the writers don't even bother with it.

This is all true, but they could have done the same story in a shorter time. I would have rathered DP be about 150-160 eps and the extra 40 be converted to something new.

The writers obviously had fun with this series. They probably think Sinnoh was a winning formula for them, so why change it? The general dynamics is unchanged since the initial episodes unlike AG. It was also able to remain fresh and not stagnate like Johto.
 

Cybersai

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They could have easily created an anime only region like the Orange Islands, instead of going to Johto or a Battle Frontier.

They probably don't want to do anime-only regions anymore.

I remember many people were complaining AG wasn't classic pokemon. So they had to do something to keep people interested.

Those same people are complaining DP isn't classic Pokemon (and it isn't). Likewise the Battle Frontier arc had very few references to Kanto whatsoever, if you didn't know better you'd think Ash was still traveling in Hoenn during the BF arc. Hoenn had the standard 3-year length of a region at the time, and thankfully it was not as long as Johto was.

The BF arc on the other hand, wasn't a tribute to Kanto at all. Only three or so locations were revisited. It was just a way for Ash to use his older Pokemon again.

The writers obviously had fun with this series. They probably think Sinnoh was a winning formula for them, so why change it? The general dynamics is unchanged since the initial episodes unlike AG. It was also able to remain fresh and not stagnate like Johto.

And did it have to be 200 eps? I really hope the BW saga can do the same in a shorter timeframe.

Most of the eps that made this saga long were the tedious training eps, the excessive rivals, the HGSS promotion eps, and some Ranger eps.
 

MisterUrban

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There was a lot of variety in DP, nobody can deny that. Most of it worked, some didn't. There was also a cohesive team in Ash and Dawn, that probably made it easier to write the plots.

Also, the backlash for DP was minimal compared to AG. By the time Dawn appeared, the old fans were already too old to matter anymore or figured that things wont return to the way they were. So even if the Battle Frontier was mostly Kanto in name only, it had a few things to appease both old fans and the fans of AG/May alike.
 

Hidden Mew

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They probably don't want to do anime-only regions anymore.

Considering that the last time they made an anime only region was over ten years ago, I agree.

Gliscor'd said:
And did it have to be 200 eps? I really hope the BW saga can do the same in a shorter timeframe.

I don't really see a large number of episodes out of DP that weren't necessary. I really don't mind that it Sinnoh will most likely have close to 200 episodes. I've enjoyed it and most of the battles have been handled nicely. I would have liked to see a return to Johto for some kind of filler arc, but I haven't lost sleep over Ash staying in Sinnoh for this whole generation. As for the BW saga, I don't really have a preference for it. As long as I find it enjoyable, it can be just as long or shorter than DP will be.

Gliscor'd said:
Most of the eps that made this saga long were the tedious training eps, the excessive rivals, the HGSS promotion eps, and some Ranger eps.

I thought that some of the training episodes were okay, though a few of them were kind of dull too. All of the rivals for Ash were interesting and had some nice interactions with him. Dawn's rivals have been kind of dull to me, with the exception of Ursula. I love the HGSS promotion episodes and there really wasn't a lot of them anyway. I think that there was just about five episodes for the Johto Festival arc, so I don't see how that made this saga longer, considering the longer amount of episodes between Ash's Gym battles and Dawn's Contests. Plus, most of them had important events, such as Dawn getting Cyndaquil, training said Cyndaquil, possible foreshadowing of Ash catching a Gible and Dawn participating in another Contest.

While I haven't seen the recent Ranger episode, I also loved the Kidnapped Riolu special. I thought that the story was much better than the first Ranger special. Since those specials were just four episodes altogether, I don't really see how that made the saga as long as it is. I understand where you're coming from about the training episodes, but there's a larger amount of episodes in between Ash's and Dawn's Gyms and Contests than these small arcs/specials, such as the episode difference between Ash's second and third Gym battles.
 

Masurao

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A this point we might as well just move on. There will be no Elite 4 arc this season, and probably not anytime soon.
 

Ashfangirl22

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I think I'm glad the series is ending.
I like D/P but I'd like to move onto a new series, new land.
I'd like it even more if Dawn came with ><
 

brianprod

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I think I'm glad the series is ending.
I like D/P but I'd like to move onto a new series, new land.
I'd like it even more if Dawn came with ><

Yeah. It could.
First, Misty-Hoenn
then, May-Sinnoh
and Dawn is going to Isshu, a little bit.
 

Jukain

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lolol That isn't what they meant, but you instantly win for such a twist that is more believable.
 

Masurao

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I wonder how much the Elite 4 will be incorporated into the B/W series. I'm guessing around the same amount.
 

Jukain

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Oh no. Now it's going to loom over us for an entire generation.
 

Hellion

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I wonder how much the Elite 4 will be incorporated into the B/W series. I'm guessing around the same amount.

I think they'll get one ep each before the League and if Ash wins the league then they get more...
 

Cybersai

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BW needs to take what worked from DP (not any of the characters though, lol, we need new characters), and do it in shorter time.

I don't want every region to be 200 episodes.
 

Masurao

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BW needs to take what worked from DP (not any of the characters though, lol, we need new characters), and do it in shorter time.

The chances of us getting new characters is sadly really slim. We have more chances for a timeskip, and that's almost as unlikely. I have a bad feeling that Brock is gonna show up again too.
 

Rоulette Goddess

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The chances of us getting new characters is sadly really slim.

that's ridiculous.

that is riiiiidiculous. chances aren't slim. they obviously need to advertise b/w, and by bringing new characters in, they will do so. they won't repeat what they did back in johto, as the show has evolved since.
 

Cybersai

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The chances of us getting new characters is sadly really slim. We have more chances for a timeskip, and that's almost as unlikely. I have a bad feeling that Brock is gonna show up again too.

How about we get a cast that actually has decent chemistry/character interaction next arc, and with good rivals? The DP trio was dull because of Brock, (if only because of him) and a good chunk of the DP rivals bombed in the series.

Let's hope they get it right next time.
 
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