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The general Pokemon League / end of Sinnoh / Generation V thread

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GreatLiver

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Hopefully the E4 in BW is what we expected of them in DP. Show up sporadically in the first like 3/4 of the saga, and then become more involved towards the end with whatever the climax is, and then pop up after the league for some kinda mini arc.
 

Hellion

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BW needs to take what worked from DP (not any of the characters though, lol, we need new characters), and do it in shorter time.

I don't want every region to be 200 episodes.

Didn't you say you were gonna retire anyway ? Just saying. To me the lenght doesn't matter. DP didn't feel long and didn't have that many fillers.

To keep what made DP good ( the gym mini-arcs, a more believable contest arc, some minor arc like the Hearthome tag team competition, a better handled vilain team, etc. ) I'm not sure they can necessarily do it in 120-130 episodes and then make a convincing second arc in 70-80. BF was rushed the first time around. I could see them doing two arcs only if they do a longer saga, something like 225-230 episodes.
 

Cybersai

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Its also possible this is the last arc with Contests in them, considering there didn't seem to be a much a fan-following of them this time around, and a new quest would add freshness.
 

Cascada

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Its also possible this is the last arc with Contests in them, considering there didn't seem to be a much a fan-following of them this time around, and a new quest would add freshness.

If it is whatever the next girl does, if Misty doesn't return, needs to involve battling.

I'm pretty sure if contests only had appeals, they wouldn't be so popular.
 

Cybersai

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Well it'll probably involve battling in some form.

And as long as a region isn't filled with as many painful eps of Johto, it shouldn't be too bad. Its almost as if the writers listened to all the complaints and backlash toward the Johto arc and addressed all these complaints.
 

Masurao

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If Dawn does ultimately leave, I wonder if they're really gonna have Ash as the youngest in the group? I still don't see them simply de-aging the new girl.
 

Cybersai

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If Dawn does ultimately leave, I wonder if they're really gonna have Ash as the youngest in the group? I still don't see them simply de-aging the new girl.

I think they'll ignore the age altogether.
 

Cascada

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If you take away the countless fillers, Johto was great IMO, but don't worry Scott, I'm sure you and Johto will never meet again.

Scott'll never be the same, if him and Johto meet again, won't let him get away, if they ever meet again. Ash's Johto's Pokemon blow, to him so, why can't the writers let them go, he asks this everyday, oh Johto won't you go away.

Katy Perry ft Timbaland :)
 

Hellion

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Well it'll probably involve battling in some form.

While I'm addicted to da sparklez and love contests, as long as they give the new main girl a new quest that involve some sort of battling, but that still has a completely different feel from regular battles (i.e. not pokéathlon), then I'm cool with it.

And as long as a region isn't filled with as many painful eps of Johto, it shouldn't be too bad. Its almost as if the writers listened to all the complaints and backlash toward the Johto arc and addressed all these complaints.

What happened between you and Johto Scott ? Has Johto stood you up on prom night ? Has Johto been bullying you in high school ? Has Johto killed your goldfish ? Are you sure you don't need to think about it ? :p

If Dawn does ultimately leave, I wonder if they're really gonna have Ash as the youngest in the group? I still don't see them simply de-aging the new girl.

I see them de-aging the new girl or aging Ash.
 

Cybersai

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While I'm addicted to da sparklez and love contests, as long as they give the new main girl a new quest that involve some sort of battling, but that still has a completely different feel from regular battles (i.e. not pokéathlon), then I'm cool with it.

Yeah, I simply cannot see a quest ever not have battling in it. If the Pokeathlon did become a main quest, you can bet there would be some type of battling involved.

What happened between you and Johto Scott ? Has Johto stood you up on prom night ? Has Johto been bullying you in high school ? Has Johto killed your goldfish ? :p

I'm pretty much convinced the only reason the show was ever revamp/rebooted in the first place was because of how poorly received the Johto arc was. Otherwise the show right now might have been exactly the same as it was in Johto.

They're even making up for Ash's Johto Pokemon. Evolving Phanpy in AG, evolving Cyndaquil in DP.

They're making up for the poor rivalries in Johto. Paul seemed to be the writers way of realizing the mistake of never including Silver in the series.

They even purposely stretched Sinnoh out just so Johto wouldn't be revisited like Kanto was.

The writers pretty much made sure that what happened in Johto would never happen in the show again, and henceforth the slowly but surely, "fixes" to almost all the old Johto-era problems.

Too bad the GS ball will never be addressed though.
 

AuraSoul93

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Too bad the GS ball will never be addressed though.
The writers said themselves that they hoped fans would forget about it. But ever since that's been said since 2008, it's been brought up plenty of times.
 

Hellion

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Yeah, I simply cannot see a quest ever not have battling in it. If the Pokeathlon did become a main quest, you can bet there would be some type of battling involved.

Please tell me you are not suggesting something like, "Jump over the hurdle and use Flamethrower pokabu" ?

I'm pretty much convinced the only reason the show was ever revamp/rebooted in the first place was because of how poorly received the Johto arc was. Otherwise the show right now might have been exactly the same as it was in Johto.

They're even making up for Ash's Johto Pokemon. Evolving Phanpy in AG, evolving Cyndaquil in DP.

They're making up for the poor rivalries in Johto. Paul seemed to be the writers way of realizing the mistake of never including Silver in the series.

They even purposely stretched Sinnoh out just so Johto wouldn't be revisited like Kanto was.

The writers pretty much made sure that what happened in Johto would never happen in the show again, and henceforth the slowly but surely, "fixes" to almost all the old Johto-era problems.

I don't particularily disagree Scott that there was mistakes in Johto, like Ash not Oaking his Kanto pokémon right off the bat and not getting Ash's amazing Johto starters the focus they deserved, but still in your case, it just seems that much more personnal. Feel free to share your feelings, you're amongst friends. :p

Too bad the GS ball will never be addressed though.

I would just lol if Jasmine came to Ash and said, "Oh by the way, Kurt told me there's a Celebi in there. kthxbye"
 

GreatLiver

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I really don't see them ever aging Ash. I think they wouldn't necessarily deage the girl, but just kinda make her height around Ash's and not really mention age. Having her be older wouldn't be awful. Maybe not really more experienced pokemon wise, but mature. Not having to go through something like how Dawn lost in appeals for like 2 or 3 contests would be grand, even if she isn't doing contests. Having someone who can win and be mature and whatnot would be completely lovely.
 

Hellion

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Not having to go through something like how Dawn lost in appeals for like 2 or 3 contests would be grand, even if she isn't doing contests. Having someone who can win and be mature and whatnot would be completely lovely.

I don't know... I liked the way Dawn lost in early DP because it was great character developpement, it allowed her to grow and eventually she learned and grow from her loses.

Having somebody win almost all the time would make her arc less believable in my opinion.
 

GreatLiver

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Having somebody win almost all the time would make her arc less believable in my opinion.
Not really win all the time, but just kinda win but be able to handle it and not get supes upset about it. The only time i liked the weepy coordinator was that one scene in Battle Frontier with May behind a tree. Don't really know why, just always liked that and weepy Ash in Pokemon Symphonic Medley.
 

Mijumaru

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Having somebody win almost all the time would make her arc less believable in my opinion.

I think they have that in Yu-Gi-Oh!

I would suspect at least a lost in about 5-6 of the 8 gyms, and 4-6 contest/yaddayadda losses.

Look at Ash now. He hasn't lost in a gym since DP093, almost 100 episodes ago. We can already guarantee that
Ash will win tomorrow.
 

AuraSoul93

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I think they have that in Yu-Gi-Oh!

I would suspect at least a lost in about 5-6 of the 8 gyms, and 4-6 contest/yaddayadda losses.

Look at Ash now. He hasn't lost in a gym since DP093, almost 100 episodes ago. We can already guarantee that
Remember his battle with Crasher Wake? He didn't even lose any Pokemon. It was like Wattson all over again, though Wake atleast put up a fight.......
 

Piplup

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The pacing in DP was handled badly overall.

In your personal opinion... I can't see anything bad in DP other than this:

- Dawn should've battled Fantina or Jasmine (or both) rather than just Ash and Dawn's rivals battling them
- Dawn should've used Pip/Pachi in the performance of Daybreak or the GF to let them make up for their Hearthome failure
- Dawn should do a performance with Togekiss and a performance with Mamoswine
- Dawn need to lose to Ursula
- Dawn should get a tag battle together with Zoey

I still hope at least some of that somehow happens by DP's end (and possibly in the inevitable BW Dawn return eps)
Other than that, the only thing that I REALLY wanted and didn't happen is a Pika/Bunny date ep
And none of what I just said is enough for me to say anything bad about DP - it was the best series so far and I can't honestly complain about anything they did

The lack of true filler doesn't matter,

Why even mention it? Filler =/= bad
It doesn't matter if there's a lot of fillers or not

It really is surprising if both the Elite 4 and Battle Frontier don't happen, and at this point they probably won't. (They can't, due to lack of eps).

Elite Four at least appeared and we did see Paul VS Cynthia, Dawn VS Lucian, Ash VS Bertha and Ash VS Flint
For the first time we saw all the E4+Champion and Ash actually battled more than one of them in the same region (and two of ash's current Poké battled other two E4/Champion - Buizel and Infernape as a Chimchar)
It's completely stupid for you to complain... especially when the writers made it clear that E4 are just too good for Ash (and that Dawn proved to us winning a big tournament is still something the writers won't happily let the main character do)

And BF... we did see Palmer and Ash did battle him... the other brains don't look good for me to care if we see them or not
What would it really give us to get a BF saga? More battles?... a BF saga would only be good if BW would be released in a year from now... but it's not needed when we have a new gen before the current gen even reach ep 200


There was no reason to stretch Sinnoh over the course of 200 episodes,

I hope every new series from now on is just the new games region in a one long awesome journey like DP was
I'd like it as long as it's no more than 200 eps
Only and ONLY in case we reach 200 eps and there's still no new gen, I'd agree they should do a short saga (BF or whatever they want) to fill the rest of the wait for next gen instead of stretching the main saga for longer than 200 eps

and we're not even getting a long league to make up for it.

Long League = boring
8 eps should be more than enough for the Sinnoh League, with DP182 being the set up ep with Ash's older Poké (and possibly torch/rivals) and DP181 being a "twerps arrive at place the League will be" ep

So if we count set up eps and eps where the group arrive at the place, the League arc will be 10 eps even if the League itself is 8 eps
The most we had by now was in Johto: a 6 eps League with 2 set up eps
So I think it makes sense that now we'll get an 8 eps League with 2 set up eps (if you count arriving there as a set up...)

10 eps of nonstop battles that aren't even Contest Battles, would be seriously boring... most of battles can be done in one episode... some need two eps and that's it:
Paul = 2, legendary user = 2, Barry if Ash even battle him = 1, Conway = 1, Nando = 1, preliminaries = 1
See? 8 eps

Ash would get up to Cynthia

Bertha, Flint and Lucian would like to have a word with you

It would also allow more of Ash's older Pokemon to be used.

Or they follow the one after the other with same team rule with the games (each being a day after the other to allow Poké to rest) and only the Sinnoh team would battle them (Gible, not Gliscor)

I believe Hoenn was shorter because people complained about Johto's length (it was back then the longest saga of the anime),

1. The target audience couldn't careless, they don't count eps and check what is "filler" and what's "important"... they watch the show to see their favorite Pokémon battle and do stuff on screen (not to mention even a lot of the older fans don't hate Johto nearly as much as you seem to think, as almost everyone here proved to you)

2. The writers don't care about fans want, otherwise Misty and May would be here right now and Brock would leave

This arc, they didn't want to bring them back to Johto,

Correction: they had a well planned story for Sinnoh and realized they shouldn't rush it just to advertise HGSS and that it can be done in other ways: that's why Lyra got to appear (and for FIVE eps, that's a lot for a non-main non-rival character in Pokémon) while FRLG heroine was ignored, that's why Ash is using his Johto starters and not the Kanto ones (like BF made him use Kanto and no Johto) that's why we see a lot of gen 2 Poké in the show, that's partly why Jasmine is going to appear, that's why all main characters and main rivals got all the gen 4 evolutions of gen 2 Poké (other than Pory for obvious reasons)
So... no, they didn't try to avoid Johto at all... if anything, they're avoiding Kanto XD

Plus two BF's in a row would be repetitive, the first time it felt like something new.

Well, it could be nice if they'd bother to use the game rules instead of turning them to Gyms
But as I said there was no need for it since we already getting BW

This is all true, but they could have done the same story in a shorter time. I would have rathered DP be about 150-160 eps and the extra 40 be converted to something new.

150-160 eps can't be exactly the same as 193 eps
The story wouldn't be as good as it was if they'd rush it just to randomly include a new short saga there
Also, 40 eps is almost nothing... better not even bother to do it

Most of the eps that made this saga long were the tedious training eps,

Trainers actually training?! THAT CAN'T BE!!!
Ash should go to his Kanto ways of being stupid and not training his Pokémon at all

the excessive rivals,

Yeah, Kanto was better with Gary barely existing and barely having any special relationship or plot with Ash...

the HGSS promotion eps,

Thanks Arceus they exist, otherwise we wouldn't have the evil Togepi ep and the Lyra eps

and some Ranger eps.

That was only 3 eps... how the Johto can you even try to say they caused the series to be longer =|

Its also possible this is the last arc with Contests in them, considering there didn't seem to be a much a fan-following of them this time around, and a new quest would add freshness.

Again, they don't care for some older fans on the internet and the target audience don't really care about anything other than watching the Pokémon do stuff on screen

Also, again, Contests are their tool to appeal more to young girls (see all the dress up, pink, hearts, cuteness, etc... no way they'll give up on that)
So Contests are more than likely to stay

Its almost as if the writers listened to all the complaints and backlash toward the Johto arc and addressed all these complaints.

It's almost as if someone ate your brain just at the time the Johto saga started and since then you became and sick insane crazy guy who repeats the same ridiculous stuff again and again AND AGAIN AND AGAIN DID I ALREADY SAY YOU CONSTANTLY REPEAT THE SAME STUFF AGAIN AND AGAIN?

I'm pretty much convinced the only reason the show was ever revamp/rebooted in the first place was because

because the games started to let players play as a female, so the anime mirrored that and decided to make a starring girl character to appeal more to girls and the new games offered a new way to raise your Pokémon in Contests, which was about using attacks to impress judges... which seems to fit for a girlier plot
It was still on the GameBOY though... now that it's on the DS (gender neutral, and advertised a lot for both boys AND girls, unlike the Gameboy) they're making the girl and Contests even more important
Also, the games seemed to follow on the anime's idea that Contests = girly: see the DP games introducing dress up and giving the player PINK HEART SHAPED "FASHION CASE"
How more obvious can it be? Contests are here to stay as the anime (and not as much but games too) way to appeal more to girls

They're even making up for Ash's Johto Pokemon. Evolving Phanpy in AG, evolving Cyndaquil in DP.

Just like how in Johto and BF the writers made up for their mistakes with the boring Kanto starters... yeah

They're making up for the poor rivalries in KantoPaul seemed to be the writers way of realizing the mistake of Gary

Corrected

STOP CAUSING ME TO WRITE WALLS OF TEXT
 
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