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The general Pokemon League / end of Sinnoh / Generation V thread

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MisterUrban

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You guys can go on and on. However, none of you can refute one of the most damming evidence that points to Dawn's permanence in the cast. Her voice actress, Megumi Toyoguchi, is stable and established. She had years of experience in voice acting, surpassing the seiyu of the other girls. The animators would select her for service in their show because they require a permanent talent, in the level of Ash's Japanese voice actress.
For her this is a lifelong career, for the rest, voice acting is only something fleeting and done to parlay into other media like pop music.

In addition to this there is the manner the story has developed in comparison to other sagas, and the unparalleled promotion campaigned they have done with Dawn and Piplup. It just declares to you that you can't refute the fact that Dawn is a freestanding permanent co-star along with Ash.
 

Dexter

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Two words: strange and confusing. Come on, she will fit yes if she has a new side quest, frankly its about damn time for a new one. I hope it will be since the games will have some great improvement too.

It's not really that strange and confusing because Brock is an experienced breeder and is rumored to be going to tackle a new goal. Whether its as a member of the cast or not is left to be seen. Or even before that he was an experienced gym leader and left that to become a breeder.
 

Shivan30

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You guys can go on and on. However, none of you can refute one of the most damming evidence that points to Dawn's permanence in the cast. Her voice actress, Megumi Toyoguchi, is stable and established. She had years of experience in voice acting, surpassing the seiyu of the other girls. The animators would selected her for service in their show because they require a permanent talent, in the level of Ash's Japanese voice actress.
For her this is a lifelong career, for the rest, voice acting is only something fleeting and done to parlay into other media like pop music.

That I personally didnt know; but yes it should be a good reason too keep investing in Dawn since havinf actress stability and marketability are points in favour of her.

You're really right when you say other voice actresses leave voice acting only to achieve something else; heck Misty left because her voice actress pursed a singer career (correct me if im wrong), just being the best example for that.

I think they originally planed Misty to be the permanent girl but since things turned out differently they had to change things, like they did so now we have May the first try, and Dawn the female star.


In addition to this there is the manner the story has developed in comparison to other sagas, and the unparalleled promotion campaigned they have done with Dawn and Piplup. It just declares to you that you can't refute the fact that Dawn is a freestanding permanent co-star along with Ash.

Yet that is the big reason. It was and is unparallaled/unprecedented alright. And that's why I keep saying remember people, this sittuation is way different than May's sittuation. Remind that.
 
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Dexter

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Yet that is the big reason. It was and is unparallaled/unprecedented alright. And that's why I keep saying remember people, this sittuation is way different than May's sittuation. Remind that.

Yes it was unparalleled because they wanted to promote to such a great extent what was a show that had fallen in ratings from the glory days. And she's promoted like that because she is the female protagonists in DPPt, kind of how Lyra was showcased in order to advertise HGSS. Even Ash had a wardrobe change to make him more similar to Lucas in looks. If Dawn were to stay who on the main cast would advertise BW?
 

Chronos

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I don't see why it would be such a bad thing if Ash was the youngest out of the group. It would bring something new to the table. And before any Dawn fanatic gives me some whiny reply, no, keeping Dawn permanent would not be bringing something new and it would not be interesting. She is 4th gen, aka old, aka not a new chick. Aka a character that could easily get dropped if the writers wanted to.

"Ash is from 1st gen, and Pikachu is a 1st gen Pokemon" - No. Ash has been around from the start and is essentially irreplaceable (or at least not nearly as easily replaceable as Dawn is) along with Pikachu. Pikachu is also not a starter, therefore it is not taking the spotlight from the Kanto starters. The 1st gen was the start of the series, so this does not apply to Ash.

"Brock has been here since the beginning too" - No. Brock has been replaced before. He is getting stale and needs to get out. And it seems that might be coming this time.

"Dawn and Ash are equals" - In the DP saga, yes. In the series as a whole, no she is not. She is a player character in the 4th generation games, not the 5th generation. The 5th generation is not called Diamond and Pearl, they are called Black and White. Dawn will most likely not exist in these games. Therefore there will be no need for her. Black and White (the boy and girl) do exist in these games, therefore are perfect for marketing these games.

Characters that are actually in the games vs. Dawn, who is not apart of the games no way, shape or form. Who wins? The characters in the game. Why? Simply because they are in it so they can market it better.

It is stupid to think the writers would choose a character from a PAST GEN that is completely over with, over characters in the current one. I mean good grief, this is not rocket science. This is marketing. You don't choose old crap over new shiny stuff ugh. How hard is it to see that? Yes, Dawn could stay, she COULD stay! But there is nowhere in any handbook or anything that says she must stay just because she was promoted more than May was!

And you wanna know why she was promoted more!? So the games could sell more! Isn't that wonderful? They can sell even more games than RSE simply by promoting the female character and her Piplup even more than May. Wow.

Sorry, but I am not in a good mood and I had to take it out on something.

Anyways, tl;dr: Dawn does not have to stay because MisterUrban somehow thinks there are obvious hints that most people do not actually see.
 

Cybersai

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Dawn's very likely leaving the series. If she stays I honestly wouldn't mind, but I knew way back in 2006 when the writers were going to introduce a second female coordinator that it was going to be another generational thing.

Doing two girly female coordinators in a row was overkill, and the BW's girl design isn't as girly, so we should see something different next gen.
 

Shivan30

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Hey dudes, just because Messi is 2009's Fifa's Best player in the world, those that mean that Cristiano Ronaldo wont be advertised by nike anymore? Since he was 2008's Fifa's Best Player, Golden Ball, Boot etc.?

Its just an analogy to say that marketable doesnt always mean brand new fresh everytime; we can be used to it and it could be fresh. Heck Ronaldo is the ENDING of the new Nike commercial, he even knocks at Homer Simpson's house.

Just try to get this analogy.
 

MisterUrban

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Your explanations are not rigorous. All you guys are giving is suppositions.

If you want to realistically discuss it you have to bring some support besides "derb... 4chan is hot, girls are interchangeable because it happen to misty and may and they are so kewl".
 

GreatLiver

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Yeah, your soccer analogies really only relate to yourself.

It's not really a matter of marketability as it is advertising. Dawn is the exact protagonist of DP, so even giving her the BW clothes she would still be Dawn. Ash is a more ambiguous design. Mostly Red based, but not entirely Red. He's his own character, so it makes more sense for him to stay. Keeping Dawn and by association Piplup is just keeping on advertising DP.
 

Shivan30

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Dawn's very likely leaving the series. If she stays I honestly wouldn't mind, but I knew way back in 2006 when the writers were going to introduce a second female coordinator that it was going to be another generational thing.

Doing two girly female coordinators in a row was overkill, and the BW's girl design isn't as girly, so we should see something different next gen.


Doing two girly female coordinators in a row was overkill, and the BW's girl design isn't as girly, so we should see something different next gen.
Thats right new gen. girl should do something else but since it isnt likely that contests will get erased they could have Dawn, the last coordinator main star to represent Dawn, as with Ash the last gym battle to represent gym battles. And having new gen girl/boy do something else, hencing getting things fresh again.

Your explanations are not rigorous. All you guys are giving is suppositions.

If you want to realistically discuss it you have to bring some support besides "derb... 4chan is hot, girls are interchangeable because it happen to misty and may and they are so kewl".


Lol thats what I'm trying to say; people dont bring things from the past, the past is irrelevant, past is past what counts is now, meaning what counts its the current sittuation and path that the anime is taking. Look at that.
 

Matt3225

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If you want to realistically discuss it you have to bring some support besides "derb... 4chan is hot, girls are interchangeable because it happen to misty and may and they are so kewl".

The fact is all you've been giving us is your opinion and then passing it off as fact
 

MisterUrban

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I already mentioned several points of evidence.

1) established voice actress for Dawn
2) one of a kind promotion using Dawn and Piplup that parallel Ash and Pikachu
3) current state of the plot that makes Dawn's departure unlikely
4) changes in the anime franchise to promote Ash & Dawn as co-stars, ie. High Touch.
5) unique circumstances due to older newer game characters
6) None of these ever being present for previous girl companions
 

Cybersai

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1) established voice actress for Dawn

Means nothing. Her VA does many other roles for anime/videogames. If anything Pokemon ties the VA down.

2) one of a kind promotion using Dawn and Piplup that parallel Ash and Pikachu

For now. The BW girl and her starter will be advertised alongside Ash as well.

3) current state of the plot that makes Dawn's departure unlikely

Are you serious? Both Kenny and Zoey are giving her very good reasons to depart from Ash. We'll see which one happens later on.

4) changes in the anime franchise to promote Ash & Dawn as co-stars, ie. High Touch.

You think the BW girl also won't get her own theme, stuff with Ash, and get her name in the title?

5) unique circumstances due to older game characters

That doesn't have any impact on Dawn. The new characters could be downgraded to 10 year olds.

6) None of these ever being present for previous girl companions

But the next companions will get what Dawn got now. Dawn isn't unique, they're going to repeat all this with the BW girl.
 

Chronos

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Yeah. I'm talking to a brick wall. And nowhere did I say I thought Dawn, or any of the girls on this show were hot. That actually had nothing at all to do with my argument lol. Nice job ignoring basically everything I said.
 

Jukain

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Well, if the past is irrelevent, then what is going on in this present should be irrelevent once B/W begins, because our present will be their past. I'm done trying to reason with people here, though.
 

Shivan30

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Yeah, your soccer analogies really only relate to yourself.

It's not really a matter of marketability as it is advertising. Dawn is the exact protagonist of DP, so even giving her the BW clothes she would still be Dawn. Ash is a more ambiguous design. Mostly Red based, but not entirely Red. He's his own character, so it makes more sense for him to stay. Keeping Dawn and by association Piplup is just keeping on advertising DP.


It can be done; I know the analogies are a bit off topic but its for you to understand better. Its the same thing, this analogy isnt me its the reality.

What really counts is that you keep clouding your judgment from things that happened in the past; what counts is now and the current events. Nothing else matters.
 

MisterUrban

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First you need to bring some adequate evidence why they will repeat what they did with May when it comes to Dawn.

All indicators point to completely different strategies in terms of the anime and promotion.

Outside of the anime and mangas, May was a barely a blip. While Dawn and Piplup are a huge presence.

The BW games are also decoupled from the anime series, once any major change is established, the old formula (even if they would use it as one) will have to changed as well.
 

Matt3225

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I already mentioned several points of evidence.

1) established voice actress for Dawn
2) one of a kind promotion using Dawn and Piplup that parallel Ash and Pikachu
3) current state of the plot that makes Dawn's departure unlikely
4) changes in the anime franchise to promote Ash & Dawn as co-stars, ie. High Touch.
5) unique circumstances due to older newer game characters
6) None of these ever being present for previous girl companions

most of those are your opinion.
1) Well by that logic Brock as an established voice actor so he should stay too
2) Why would writer's want to keep advertising Dawn and Piplup when they have been doing so for the past 4 years. (Dawn and Piplup are DP characters there's no reason for them to be in Isshu, you liking them is not a reason).
3) The plot right now is the Sinnoh League, what about that makes it unlikely that Dawn will leave
4) They could do the exact same thing with Ash and White
5) The fact that they're older doesnt mean anything. Just because you think it'll be weird to have Ash and older girl doesn't mean it will be. What's so weird about Ash having an older female friend, he has Brock who's older than he is and is Brock and Ash's friendship weird?
6)Misty, May, and Dawn are completely different characters so of course there's gonna be things present for Dawn that was never present with May and Misty


This is all my opinion and in no way fact

All indicators point to completely different strategies in terms of the anime and promotion.

Outside of the anime and mangas, May was a barely a blip. While Dawn and Piplup are a huge presence.

Fix'd
 

Cybersai

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Outside of the anime and mangas, May was a barely a blip. While Dawn and Piplup are a huge presences.

You are exaggerating. If you look at some of the old Japanese adverts for AG, May got plenty of coverage on them.

Yes, Dawn gets much more, but not as much as you're claiming.

The BW games are also decoupled from the anime series, once any major change is established, the old formula (even if they would use it as one) will have to changed as well.

This remains to be seen.
 

Shivan30

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First you need to bring some adequate evidence why they will repeat what they did with May when it comes to Dawn.

All indicators point to completely different strategies in terms of the anime and promotion.

Thank you, thats why I've saying all the time.

Outside of the anime and mangas, May was a barely a blip. While Dawn and Piplup are a huge presences.

That's what we've been seeing along these past 4 years.

The BW games are also decoupled from the anime series, once any major change is established, the old formula (even if they would use it as one) will have to changed as well.


It will have, I dont know in what way but this girl replacement its getting old, boring and annoying.
 
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