The Generation VII Theorymon Thread

[Slife]

This thread is to discuss the new Pokemon, moves, abilities, items, etc. that will be introduced in the upcoming Pokemon Sun and Moon games from a competitive battling aspect and how they will affect the metagame.

Possible discussion topics include:

• Potential sets
  
• Viability rankings
• Tiering placement
• Impact on team building (including cores and overall structure)
• New threats and possible checks/counters to them
• Role/function in the metagame
• Strategies and gimmicks

 

[Enzap]

wow it's been forever since I've posted in this section

The new Pokémon that I'm kind of getting the best sense of how it'll play is probably Kiteruguma, the giant teddy bear/red panda. It has a fun unique typing being Normal/Fighting, but I doubt its stats will be all that revolutionary. I'm expecting high Attack and HP with low Speed, which means there's a good chance it will play very similar to Pokémon like Hariyama and Snorlax. That means it will almost certainly fall victim to even moderately fast Fighting, Psychic, and Fairy type sweepers. The thing that is most likely to likely set it apart is its ability Fluffy, but we'll have to wait and see what that actually does.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

I'm imagining Salandi being an offensive stall breaker along the lines of aerodactyl or Talonflame, but held back by a probable lack of recovery. Something like

Salandit @ Leftovers/Life Orb
Corrosion
Timid
252 (SpA or HP, depending if it gets recovery)/4 (HP or SpA)/252 Spe
-Taunt
-Toxic
-Flamethrower
-Recover (if it gets it, this will likely be optimal)/Protect/Sludge Bomb

 

[Zeb]

Tapu Koko: Seems like it will have potential to be really good. I'm guessing it's going to be a 580 BST legendary, but we'll have to see since they haven't outright confirmed it as a legendary even though it seems bizarre not to be. I could see it being somewhat along similar lines to Thundurus stat-wise - something like 70/105/90/110/90/115. Its Electric moves are stronger than an Adaptability boost with Electric Terrain (move x 1.5 x 1.5 rather than move x 2), it's also kinda immune to sleep with it always summoning the Terrain which could come in handy (especially in VGC). Plus it's a Fairy and Fairy STAB is always appreciated. Two weaknesses for six resistances ain't something to sniff at either!

wow it's been forever since I've posted in this section

The new Pokémon that I'm kind of getting the best sense of how it'll play is probably Kiteruguma, the giant teddy bear/red panda. It has a fun unique typing being Normal/Fighting, but I doubt its stats will be all that revolutionary. I'm expecting high Attack and HP with low Speed, which means there's a good chance it will play very similar to Pokémon like Hariyama and Snorlax. That means it will almost certainly fall victim to even moderately fast Fighting, Psychic, and Fairy type sweepers. The thing that is most likely to likely set it apart is its ability Fluffy, but we'll have to wait and see what that actually does.

Now that we know what Fluffy does, it effectively removes those weaknesses to Fighting, Flying, Psychic and Fairy moves (Fire too) if they're contact moves, which is pretty good really (Brave Bird, Close Combat, Zen Headbutt, Play Rough, Flare Blitz all come to mind). Non-contact moves will still be a problem tho. I can see it having a good HP stat, since it reminds me of other chunky looking Normal-types like Audino, Lickilicky and Miltank, which would mesh well with its ability. Normals also tend to get really wide movepools with all sorts of choices so that would only be a plus for it too. I think its stats will be in this ballpark: 120/120/70/70/60/60. I don't think Bewear will rock the metagame as we know it, but I can see it being pretty fun to use and better than most are expecting.

 

[sharkshocker]

Thoughts on the Alola form Pokemon? Seems they're trying to make it crowded for Dragons and their counters with these typings that we've gotten.

A-Exeggutor's gonna need a boost in either Speed or Sp. Def to make an impact. I can also see Atk and Sp. Atk getting switched based on how it looks...I mean it uses its neck to smack into things.

A-Sandslash gives me Excadrill vibes, and if it gets to keep Sand Rush as its HA then I think it'll see some play. It has the same base stat total for defenses compared to Excadrill (75/110/55 for Sandslash vs. 110/60/65 for Excadrill) but it's 35 and 23 points behind on Atk and Speed, respectively, which hampers its sweeping capability. Giving it Steel helps it against SR and the possible Sp. Def boost in sand but comes with double weakness against Fighting and Fire.

A-Ninetales...if Sp. Atk and Sp. Def gets switched then I'm happy. I'm more focused on how a shiny would look like @_@

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

I honestly doubt Ninetales-A and Sandslash-A will see play in OU. Exeggutor-A has maybe a slight chance but it still seems doubtful

 

[Rainami]

I could see bewear being pretty good with its raw physical bulk and power, in addition to good offensive typing. Like zeb said it'll probably have high HP, especially given that all the other bears do. Turtonator has pretty good typing and will doubtlessly have huge physical bulk, and together with obvious access to wisp I could see it being pretty good, especially if it gets a recovery move. Mudsdale has a good ability and I can see it having huge bulk and attack, though I think it might need a recovery move to be ou material. Wishiwashi might go ou if its stats are good enough, I'm confident it'll have huge attacking stats and at least decent bulk after some calcs I took, so that just leaves speed. If it's slow it still has a shot at making ou as a wallbreaker. Lastly, the one that I'm most confident about, tapu koko. It'll doubtlessly be good, being an electric it'll probs have high speed and sp. attack, and together with electric terrain it's going to be one hard hitting sweeper. To solidify this, electric/fairy is choice defensive typing.

That's about all I have for things I think have a good shot to be ou. The others so far, I'm not sure about any of them yet...

Edit: I could maybe see alolan marowak going ou too, that typing plus lightningrod gives it a ton of resists/immunities and it will doubtlessly hit hard, assuming thick club or a variant works on it. Shame the rest of its stats will probably be lacking.

 

[Zeb]

Alolan Marowak seems the best Alolan form so far imo. Ghost/Fire is good offensively and since Cubone doesn't seem to have a form that means Marowak will retain access to Earthquake/Bonemerang. Its typing has some nasty weaknesses to Dark, Ghost, Rock, Water and Ground though. Defensively it gets Fighting and Normal immunities on top of Lightning Rod's Electric immunity - which with its Fire type makes it immune to Wisp and Thunder Wave and that's an offensive Pokemon's dream. Ice, Fire, Fairy, Grass, Poison, Bug, Steel are a bunch of useful resistances on top too. Thick Club will probably still work on it and if it retains access to Swords Dance and maybe Belly Drum it could be decent (Belly Drum in the chance it gets Shadow Sneak). Its body looks thinner and its movements livelier too, which makes me think its Speed is getting a boost and that's what Marowak really needed. It also seems like it's getting a Ghost bone move (Boo-merang anyone? :b).

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Alolan Marowak seems the best Alolan form so far imo. Ghost/Fire is good offensively and since Cubone doesn't seem to have a form that means Marowak will retain access to Earthquake/Bonemerang. Its typing has some nasty weaknesses to Dark, Ghost, Rock, Water and Ground though. Defensively it gets Fighting and Normal immunities on top of Lightning Rod's Electric immunity - which with its Fire type makes it immune to Wisp and Thunder Wave and that's an offensive Pokemon's dream. Ice, Fire, Fairy, Grass, Poison, Bug, Steel are a bunch of useful resistances on top too. Thick Club will probably still work on it and if it retains access to Swords Dance and maybe Belly Drum it could be decent (Belly Drum in the chance it gets Shadow Sneak). Its body looks thinner and its movements livelier too, which makes me think its Speed is getting a boost and that's what Marowak really needed. It also seems like it's getting a Ghost bone move (Boo-merang anyone? :b).

I'm just afraid they'll do something silly and make it a special attacker lol

 

[Zeb]

That's somewhat probable I guess, especially knowing Game Freak don't make the best choices at times and it being a fire dancer. We'll have to stay hopeful!

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Decidueye @ Life Orb
(HA)
Jolly
252 Atk/4 Def/252 Spe
~Spirit Shackle
~Leaf Blade/Seed Bomb/Wood Hammer (whichever one it gets)
~Shadow Sneak/Earthquake/coverage of some sort
~Swords Dance

Yummmmmmm

 

[Wispy Willow]

Imma just going to theorise about some wierd and probably terrible sets for those guardian 'mons for a bit because the Terrain Abilities intrigue me and they're all Fairy types. Oh, and I haven't read any info on their stats/moves that may have been leaked so yeah k thx bi.


Tapu Koko:
Ability: Electric Surge
Item: Leftovers/Lum Berry/Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP, 4 Spe
Nature: Timid/Modest
-Moonblast/some other Fairy move
-Nature Power/Thunderbolt/Discharge
-Some coverage move/Protect/Nature's Madness
-Rest

...This is assuming that A. this thing'll be Special and not Physical, B. that it'll be bulky enough to take a few hits and C. that the Electric Terrain from Electric Surge wears off in the same amount of time that a regular Electric Terrain wears off in, but that's besides the point. The main idea here is to take a few hits, probably use Rest when Electric Terrain wears off, then switch out and, when you come back in, activate the Electric Terrain to wake yourself back up. Though there is probably a better EV spread for this idea, but that's besides the point.

Oh, and I'll probably end up just going with a fully-offensive version because this thing probably won't get good Defenses, but still, the idea's there.




Tapu Lele:
Ability: Psychic Surge
Item: Sitrus Berry since I can't think of anything else at the moment
EVs: 252 HP, 140 Sp. Atk, the rest in whatever Def stat is weaker
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Quiet
-Psychic/whatever Nature Power gets turned into with Psychic Terrain in effect
-Dazzling Gleam
-Some kind of coverage/recovery
-Trick Room

This set, on the other hand, is more orientated to setting up Trick Room, and also happens to be of the VGC variety since you all know I love me some VGC Trick Room. Assuming these things are allowed in VGC17, that is. And that this thing is a Special attacker, that too. The main idea is to prevent your opponent from using those pesky Thundrus to Taunt you (among other things) with Psychic Terrain, set up Trick Room and do as much damage as you can while your opponent can't out-prioritise you. Though I think I'll use some non-TR stuff when it comes to Singles... Eh, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.




Tapu Bulu:
Ability: Grassy Surge
Item: Leftovers/Big Root/Z Crystal
EVs: 252 HP, the rest split between the Defenses
Nature: Some Defense-boosting Nature that lowers its weaker Attacking stat
-Horn Leech/Giga Drain
-Nature's Madness/Ingrain/Leech Seed
-Leech Seed/Toxic
-Rest/some other recovery move/Substitute/Grassy Terrain
Z-Guardian of Alola

Now, back to Singles sets, and the main idea here, if you can't tell, is to take advantage of as many means of passively restoring your health/sapping the opponent's as possible (though you can pick Rest/Sub if you want to heal/prevent a Status or something), eventually stalling the opponent out (or putting them in the range of the thing's Z Move/Nature's Madness+Toxic getting a KOif you use it). It probably won't actually fair that well against, say, anything with Sap Sipper, Poison type moves or the ability to out-stall it, but that's besides the point.



Tapu Fini:
Ability: Misty Surge
Item: Z Crystal
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 HP
Nature: Modest/Timid
-Moonblast/Nature Power
-Scald/Hydro Pump
-Some other coverage move
-Calm Mind
-Z-Guardian of Alola

This set is pretty much designed to take advantage of the fact that Misty Terrain prevents any 'mon on the battlefield from getting statused, which basically cancels out stallers like Umbreon who rely on wearing down the opponent with Toxic (at least for five turns), forcing your opponent to either switch out and let you get a free Calm Mind, or stay in and wait for Misty Terrain to end, by which point you've set up more then enough Calm Minds to sweep their team. Granted, it probably wouldn't go that well in an actual battle, and I'll probably end up using a more defensive set, maybe a Sleep Talker, but that's besides the point.

Why did my favourite design of those four have to get the worst Terrain?



Oh, and the fact that I've included Nature Power on some of these sets means that I am also thinking of set ideas for other 'mons involving that move as well as the fact that it prevents Sucker Punch from being as dangerous... This shall be interesting.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Imma just going to theorise about some wierd and probably terrible sets for those guardian 'mons for a bit because the Terrain Abilities intrigue me and they're all Fairy types. Oh, and I haven't read any info on their stats/moves that may have been leaked so yeah k thx bi.


Tapu Koko:
Ability: Electric Surge
Item: Leftovers/Lum Berry/Sitrus Berry
EVs: 252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP, 4 Spe
Nature: Timid/Modest
-Moonblast/some other Fairy move
-Nature Power/Thunderbolt/Discharge
-Some coverage move/Protect/Nature's Madness
-Rest

...This is assuming that A. this thing'll be Special and not Physical, B. that it'll be bulky enough to take a few hits and C. that the Electric Terrain from Electric Surge wears off in the same amount of time that a regular Electric Terrain wears off in, but that's besides the point. The main idea here is to take a few hits, probably use Rest when Electric Terrain wears off, then switch out and, when you come back in, activate the Electric Terrain to wake yourself back up. Though there is probably a better EV spread for this idea, but that's besides the point.

Oh, and I'll probably end up just going with a fully-offensive version because this thing probably won't get good Defenses, but still, the idea's there.

datamine stuff ahead

Spoiler

Tapu Koko is physical, and it doesn't get any Fairy moves besides Dazzling Gleam. Base 95 SpA and 115 Atk. Very shallow movepool. Best sets likely:

Offensive
Tapu Koko @ Life Orb
Electric Surge
Naive
252 Atk/4 SpA/252 Spe
~Wild Charge
~Brave Bird
~Dazzling Gleam
~Volt Switch / Nature's Madness / U-Turn / Roost / Work Up

Stallbreaker
Tapu Koko @ Zap Plate
Electric Surge
Timid
40 HP/252 SpA/216 Spe (outspeeds Wea
~Thunderbolt
~U-Turn
~Taunt / Nature's Madness
~Roost / Nature's Madness

Tapu Lele:
Ability: Psychic Surge
Item: Sitrus Berry since I can't think of anything else at the moment
EVs: 252 HP, 140 Sp. Atk, the rest in whatever Def stat is weaker
IVs: 0 Spe
Nature: Quiet
-Psychic/whatever Nature Power gets turned into with Psychic Terrain in effect
-Dazzling Gleam
-Some kind of coverage/recovery
-Trick Room

This set, on the other hand, is more orientated to setting up Trick Room, and also happens to be of the VGC variety since you all know I love me some VGC Trick Room. Assuming these things are allowed in VGC17, that is. And that this thing is a Special attacker, that too. The main idea is to prevent your opponent from using those pesky Thundrus to Taunt you (among other things) with Psychic Terrain, set up Trick Room and do as much damage as you can while your opponent can't out-prioritise you. Though I think I'll use some non-TR stuff when it comes to Singles... Eh, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Spoiler

With 95 base speed, i feel like Lele is way too fast for TR. Also it's an amazing offensive mon, should not be squandered as a supporter (except in specific Psychic spam teams). Good sets:

Offensive:
Tapu Lele @ Life Orb / Choice Specs / Choice Scarf
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid / Modest Nature
- Psyshock
- Moonblast
- Focus Blast / Shadow Ball
- Taunt / Aromatherapy / Calm Mind / HP [Fire] / Psychic / Thunderbolt

Ubers frens:
Tapu Lele @ Eject Button
Ability: Psychic Surge
EVs: 252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Taunt
- Psyshock
- Toxic
- Aromatherapy

paired w/

Deoxys-A @ Life Orb
Rash Nature (+SpA, -SpD)
- Psycho Boost
- Knock Off / Psychock / Psychic
- Superpower / Psyshock / Psychic
- ExtremeSpeed / Psyshock / Psychic

You might be able to run "Ubers frens" in OU with a Mega Alakazam in the back instead of Deo-S.

Tapu Bulu:
Ability: Grassy Surge
Item: Leftovers/Big Root/Z Crystal
EVs: 252 HP, the rest split between the Defenses
Nature: Some Defense-boosting Nature that lowers its weaker Attacking stat
-Horn Leech/Giga Drain
-Nature's Madness/Ingrain/Leech Seed
-Leech Seed/Toxic
-Rest/some other recovery move/Substitute/Grassy Terrain
Z-Guardian of Alola

Now, back to Singles sets, and the main idea here, if you can't tell, is to take advantage of as many means of passively restoring your health/sapping the opponent's as possible (though you can pick Rest/Sub if you want to heal/prevent a Status or something), eventually stalling the opponent out (or putting them in the range of the thing's Z Move/Nature's Madness+Toxic getting a KOif you use it). It probably won't actually fair that well against, say, anything with Sap Sipper, Poison type moves or the ability to out-stall it, but that's besides the point.

Spoiler

You've got the right idea here. Bulu has MASSIVE atk and mediocre speed, but a pretty good movepool outside the glaring lack of physical Fairy stab, just like Koko.

Tapu Bulu @ Leftovers
Grassy Surge
Careful
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
~Leech Seed
~Horn Leech
~Bulk Up
~Nature's Madness / Taunt

However, the other important thing to note is that in Grassy Terrain, Bulu is capable of hitting harder than Mega Medicham. So the following will DEFINITELY also be viable:

Tapu Bulu @ Life Orb / Choice Band
Grassy Surge
Careful
252 HP / 4 Def / 252 SpDef
~Wood Hammer
~Horn Leech / Megahorn / Zen Headbutt
~Superpower / Stone Edge / Megahorn / Zen Headbutt
~Swords Dance / Superpower / Stone Edge / Megahorn / Zen Headbutt

Tapu Fini:
Ability: Misty Surge
Item: Z Crystal
EVs: 252 Spe, 252 Sp. Atk, 4 HP
Nature: Modest/Timid
-Moonblast/Nature Power
-Scald/Hydro Pump
-Some other coverage move
-Calm Mind
-Z-Guardian of Alola

This set is pretty much designed to take advantage of the fact that Misty Terrain prevents any 'mon on the battlefield from getting statused, which basically cancels out stallers like Umbreon who rely on wearing down the opponent with Toxic (at least for five turns), forcing your opponent to either switch out and let you get a free Calm Mind, or stay in and wait for Misty Terrain to end, by which point you've set up more then enough Calm Minds to sweep their team. Granted, it probably wouldn't go that well in an actual battle, and I'll probably end up using a more defensive set, maybe a Sleep Talker, but that's besides the point.

Why did my favourite design of those four have to get the worst Terrain?



Oh, and the fact that I've included Nature Power on some of these sets means that I am also thinking of set ideas for other 'mons involving that move as well as the fact that it prevents Sucker Punch from being as dangerous... This shall be interesting.

Spoiler

First off, you can't use Guardian of Alola unless you have Nature's Madness as an attack on the set, so the set you proposed is legit impossible. second, Scald is TERRIBLE on Fini because Misty Terrain makes the opponent immune to Burn. Finally, the "Sleep Talker" you mentioned is also impossible because Tapu Fini cannot use Rest - again, Misty Terrain makes the move fail since you cannot inflict Sleep (or other status), even on yourself.

Fini will be the resident support tapu, probably, since it gets Defog.

Tapu Fini @ Leftovers
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 Speed
Timid
- Moonblast
- Defog
- Protect / Hydro Pump / Nature's Madness
- Hydro Pump / Taunt / Brine

Note the fun Nature's Madness -> Brine combo.

One can also run a more offensive set using Calm Mind, Hydro Pump, Moonblast, and HP [Fire], or a Specs or Scarf set with the same and Ice Beam > Calm Mind

 

[Gengarzilla]

I'd be interested in hearing how Ribombee will hold up with a 124 base Speed stat and Quiver Dance at its disposal. That Pokémon honestly looks great on paper.

 

[Joel López]

mod edit: post contains image and info from datamine

Spoiler

As you can see, Xurkitree, also known as UB-03 Lighting, can beat down 1 Lugia in a Thunder! A THUNDER!!! That is, IF it can learn the move. I'd put Xurkitree in my PC'S Battle Box. That way, I can get the Beast Boost ability to KO both Flying-types & Water-types. How would you use it in battle?

 

[Envoy]

mod edit: spoiler tag added

Spoiler

Ultra beasts in general have at least one ridiculous stat. Katrana (sp?) has a base attack stat of 181. I'm guessing they're supposed to be broken.

Otoh, look at the rest of its stats. Pretty underwhelming if you ask me.