The Girl Lost in The Burned Tower

[Cyber Jet]

Well today I was reading some TVTropes pages and then found this

While thankfully only accessible with a gameshark, one little thing makes the GSC version of glitch city MUCH creepier. What would that be? A black-and-white woman(resembling a ghost) will sometimes be waiting for you there. And if you walk toward her the right way, she WILL attack you, playing the Burned Tower music when she does. Trying to battle her will only result in madness. It gets better, there's unused text in Gold and Silver suggesting somebody's daughter going missing in the Burned Tower.

So I went to Bulbapedia to check if this was true and found this

There is hidden text for an event related with the Burned Tower, where someone's daughter was missing. It is possible that this event made its final debut as the missing granddaughter in the S.S. Aqua.

So this is more then likely what replaced this event so I went searching for the hidden text and found this

Some in‐game text implies that a sidequest involving the Burned Tower was scrapped at some point in development.

Oh, no. Oh, no… My daughter is missing. No… She couldn’t have gone to the Burned Tower. I told her not to go near it… People seem to disappear there… Oh, what should I do…?

Although it has no event data associated with it, this block of text is found near the dialogue encountered in Ecruteak City, outside of buildings. The idea of a possible sidequest involving a lost daughter is intriguing to think about. It might even have morphed into the lost granddaughter sidequest on the S.S. Aqua.

So why do you think this was scraped and replaced?
What do you think would happen in this event?
What was the fate of the Daughter?

 

[Karpi]

It was probably moved to the S.S. Aqua because they realized the post-game content was lacking

In true conspiracy style, though, I imagine her spirit was reincarnated in the form of one of the legendary beasts, possibly Suicune since it seems to be the "tamest" (it lets you directly encounter it)

 

[Elesigma]

Well we don't know if she became a ghost or not, since the event was scrapped and we only know that she went missing. She could have been possessed by a ghost or psychic poke'mon and you probably had to defeat her to free her from whatever was possessing her. Or she and her mother could have both been ghosts (maybe it is how they got the idea for the Darkrai event?)

Also here is a video of the "Glitch City Ghost"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoP8qF5bmFk

Though we will never know for sure, though that is what makes it creepy, and fun.

 

[LuitentantDan]

I think it was removed because it would be dark for Pokemon at that time period. Granted Pokemon has become darker and more mature over the years, but at the time of GSC release this would have been over the top dark for GameFreak.

 

[Silktree]

I think the girl was supposed to fall off to the lower floor of the Burned Tower, where the legendary beasts would have been waiting for her. Maybe this would have led people in Ecruteak to be frightened of the beasts, but the girl would have proven them wrong.

I'd like to say that the girl traveled through time to the day when the Brass Tower burned down, but that's probably a stretch.

I think it was removed because it would be dark for Pokemon at that time period. Granted Pokemon has become darker and more mature over the years, but at the time of GSC release this would have been over the top dark for GameFreak.

Team Rocket killing Cubone's mother and that Marowak haunting the Pokémon Tower is arguably the darkest moment in the series, so I don't really see your point.

 

[Cyber Jet]

I think the girl was supposed to fall off to the lower floor of the Burned Tower, where the legendary beasts would have been waiting for her. Maybe this would have led people in Ecruteak to be frightened of the beasts, but the girl would have proven them wrong.

I'd like to say that the girl traveled through time to the day when the Brass Tower burned down, but that's probably a stretch.


Team Rocket killing Cubone's mother and that Marowak haunting the Pokémon Tower is arguably the darkest moment in the series, so I don't really see your point.

Time travel?

Mabey this event also had something to do with Celebi if it involved that and it would not be totaly out of the question because this was the first game that had Celebi and maybe it had something to do with this, such as traveling back into time using Celebi and saving the girl from what ever her fate was at the tower.

Also mabey the fire that burned down the old burned tower(I forget what that tower was called right now) killed her.

 

[Silktree]

Mabey this event also had something to do with Celebi if it involved that and it would not be totaly out of the question because this was the first game that had Celebi and maybe it had something to do with this, such as traveling back into time using Celebi and saving the girl from what ever her fate was at the tower.

Actually, I'd think that Crystal would have been the more fitting game to introduce time travel. Gold and Silver had little references to Ecruteak's history; the legendary beasts were not known to be connected to Ho-Oh at the time, and little was known about the Brass Tower (not even its original name) other than the fact the birds flew away after it burned down.

Not many people expected time travel in HGSS, but I did. However, the Giovanni event was very tame compared to what I'd hoped to see - an event dealing with the Brass Tower burning down. I didn't remember the unused text involving the lost girl; if I had, I would have probably fitted her into the theory, which in a nutshell was:

Spoiler

By taking either the Rainbow or Silver Wing to the Ilex Forest shrine, Gold/Kris travels 150 years back in time to the first day of the fire. It is at this point that we will find out the force behind the lightning bolt that struck the tower.

Witnessing the destruction of the tower, Gold/Kris' objective is to reach the uppermost floor in time to get Lugia out of harm's way. Lugia is struggling with its Psychic powers to keep the fire intensity at bay; it cannot continue doing so for long because another force is constantly fueling the flames. Gold/Kris comes to learn that in this time period, Lugia has not yet yet been to the sea, and has thus never mastered the ability to summon rain (Rain Dance). To change this, Gold/Kris forms a bond with Lugia and lets it read their mind, where it sees memories of the Whirl Islands legend; it is this communication that allows Lugia to go about honing Rain Dance. But this process takes time, during which other matters call for immediate action.

For reasons that concern the story up till this point, Gold/Kris has made it their mission to alter the timeline by saving the three nameless creatures from ever dying in the first place (the player has to go through with this decision regardless of whether or not they agree). They do so because they feel that it was through fate that they encountered the three beasts in the basement of the Burned Tower; the legendary beasts have lived a life of solitude obscured from human eye, and the aftermath of being seen in the original incident has the been cause of every selfish act committed by humans against Pokémon - at least in Johto. From this point of view, if the original creatures were to survive the incident and never came to possess legendary powers, the ideal of the towers would live on and humans would never become detached from Pokémon. Surely this must be the reason that Gold/Kris is going through the incident - to change its outcome for the better. Or would it really be for the better?

The problem with the theory, other than the obvious fact that the story never happened in any of the games, is that I didn't really account for what would make the player go to Ilex Forest in the first place. If that girl had been lost in the forest (and we know from HGSS that the shrine can make people vanish unpredictably), that could have tipped off the player that Celebi was disrupting time for a reason. But realistically, Ilex Forest wasn't mentioned in the unusued text, so the girl was probably just supposed to fall off to Burned Tower's lower floor.

 

[Green Zubat]

Well we don't know if she became a ghost or not, since the event was scrapped and we only know that she went missing. She could have been possessed by a ghost or psychic poke'mon and you probably had to defeat her to free her from whatever was possessing her. Or she and her mother could have both been ghosts (maybe it is how they got the idea for the Darkrai event?)

Also here is a video of the "Glitch City Ghost"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RoP8qF5bmFk

Though we will never know for sure, though that is what makes it creepy, and fun.

Has anyone besides me noticed that the ghost girl in the video has exactly three pokemon when battled? Maybe they are the three pokemon that were transformed into the Legendary Beasts...

Also, I definitely think she's a ghost, for three reasons:

a.) She's in monochrome, whereas everyone else in GSC is in colour

b.) You can only find her in Glitch City, which could be viewed as a metaphor for another dimension i.e. the other side

c.) Connect the dots: The person looking for her says people tend to go missing in the burned tower. Ghosts are known to live there. Ghost pokemon are also known to do horrible things to people (well, if you believe the pokedex) including taking them to the spirit world.

 

[Saloma]

Considering it sounds pretty much the same as finding the girl in the SS Anne, they probably just moved it there. Though, I guess they could've also used it as an excuse for the player to look around the tower, and find the trio of legendaries.

Team Rocket killing Cubone's mother and that Marowak haunting the Pokémon Tower is arguably the darkest moment in the series, so I don't really see your point.

Human lives have more weight than the ones of animals.

 

[Green Zubat]

Considering it sounds pretty much the same as finding the girl in the SS Anne, they probably just moved it there. Though, I guess they could've also used it as an excuse for the player to look around the tower, and find the trio of legendaries.



Human lives have more weight than the ones of animals.

I'd argue that to be a moot point, given that pokemon act & look halfway between the two. They are stuck awkwardly straddling the division between human and animal.

Besides, we've had human ghosts (and similar things) before, for example: the vampiric/possessed channellers of of Gen 1, the Old Chateau and the Girl at the Bridge in Gen V. And there's always that theory about what really happened to Red too...(and lets not even bring the late Giovanni into this)

 

[Saloma]

There aren't any gruesome stories involved with those, though. If you changed Cubone and Marowak to a human child and mother, then the story would become a lot more shocking.

Also Red is alive, so what theories about him would exist?

 

[Azure Butterfly]

Also Red is alive, so what theories about him would exist?

That's debatable too. He dissapears without a trace after you fight him, and he's wearing a thin shirt in the middle of a snowstorm. On top of that, none of his friends or family have heard from him for years.

 

[Rotom Robot]

how about we actually ask gamefreak?

 

[hurristat]

This is a very interesting prospect, and I wouldn't be surprised if there was some residual code left from before that this story is based. I therefore think this makes sense, although the Red being dead one is a little bit more on the edge for me.

 

[The Outrage]

That's debatable too. He dissapears without a trace after you fight him, and he's wearing a thin shirt in the middle of a snowstorm. On top of that, none of his friends or family have heard from him for years.

He ran into the mountains to train, and didn't have a Pokégear. That explains the part where no one has heard from him.

He disappears for the same reason he doesn't speak, as a throwback to his original role as a player character, and disappearing is his "blacking out" and reappearing in front of the Pokémon Center.

The only back up for theories that Red's dead (and Giovanni for that matter) only stem from people's need to have "mature content" in Pokémon. In Red's case, its completely unambiguous so thinking he's anything other than a throwback to his previous role is just ridiculous, while Giovanni's is ambiguous, thus the only people who think he killed himself are the people who want him to have done that.

 

[Green Zubat]

He ran into the mountains to train, and didn't have a Pokégear. That explains the part where no one has heard from him.

That's one possible explanantion, though don't you find it a bit odd that he hasn't once flown home? I mean, he's only two trips away.

He disappears for the same reason he doesn't speak, as a throwback to his original role as a player character, and disappearing is his "blacking out" and reappearing in front of the Pokémon Center.

Whilst this is probably true, it doesn't explain anything in-universe. Now the DeadRed Theory, that explains his dissapearance on defeat, in-universe.

The only back up for theories that Red's dead (and Giovanni for that matter) only stem from people's need to have "mature content" in Pokémon. In Red's case, its completely unambiguous so thinking he's anything other than a throwback to his previous role is just ridiculous, while Giovanni's is ambiguous, thus the only people who think he killed himself are the people who want him to have done that.

You're doing it again. The DeadRed theory is an attempt to explain Red's actions in-universe which, by their nature, cannot be disproved with out-of-universe reasons (like lampshading Black-outs). Please hang up and try again.

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that DeadRed would serve to explain not only black outs and why no one's heard from him in ages but how he can just sit at the peak of a lonely, freezing-cold mountain peak forever with no extra clothing.

 

[The Outrage]

Whilst this is probably true, it doesn't explain anything in-universe. Now the DeadRed Theory, that explains his dissapearance on defeat, in-universe.



You're doing it again. The DeadRed theory is an attempt to explain Red's actions in-universe which, by their nature, cannot be disproved with out-of-universe reasons (like lampshading Black-outs). Please hang up and try again.

If its true, then it doesn't need an in-universe explanation.

Do we require an in-universe explanation for Game Freak's existence, and their dialogue claiming to create you? No, because that's breaking the fourth wall to make a shout out. It's the same case with Red.

People are only making up these theories because they can't accept that its just as simple as that. An in-universe explanation doesn't need to be given for breaking the fourth wall.

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to point out that DeadRed would serve to explain not only black outs and why no one's heard from him in ages but how he can just sit at the peak of a lonely, freezing-cold mountain peak forever with no extra clothing.

I'd like to point out game-play and story segregation as the reason for that because it validly explains everything as well. I've given an explanation for everything else, as for why he's only wearing those clothes in a blizzard?

(1) In the original games, the peak wasn't shown to be a perpetual blizzard, so he didn't need additional clothes.

(2) They wanted to keep is image iconic, rather than updating him like all the other leaders. After all, if they were going to keep him silent and have him "black out", why on earth would you change the most noticeable thing about him? His Gen II sprite after all is just a mirror image and recolour of his yellow sprite.

(3) In the case of HgSs, they added a blizzard, but they clearly wanted to keep his iconic look. They've re-edited everyone, and updated their look from FrLg, even people who wouldn't really look that different. They didn't do that with Red for the same reason as #2

(4) These characters have been able to walk near the crater of an active volcano with no ill effects, suddenly, a little bit of cold, which many characters have been shown in-game to be able to take (Candice, Maylene, Pryce) is supposed to kill him? People always seem to underestimate the resilience of humans in this series. In the very same game, they've had a character rumoured to be strong enough to beat his Machamp at arm wrestling, and we actually see a character get hit at point-blank range with a Dragonite's hyper beam. I don't understand why people think the humans there (which have been shown to actually wield psychic powers) are as fragile as people in this world.

Yes, the theory's also an attempt to explain his actions in-universe, but his actions could be explained many ways (and have, like the pressure of being Champion getting to him etc), but its quite clearly an attempt by most people to satisfy their need to make Pokemon more mature than it really is.

That's one possible explanantion, though don't you find it a bit odd that he hasn't once flown home? I mean, he's only two trips away.

Yes, it is weird, but that doesn't mean he's dead. Why no one's heard from him is yet another joke on being a silent protagonist, as no one would ever have heard anything from him.

 

[Green Zubat]

If its true, then it doesn't need an in-universe explanation.

Do we require an in-universe explanation for Game Freak's existence, and their dialogue claiming to create you? No,

Should we also abolish fun whilst we're at it?

I'd like to point out game-play and story segregation as the reason for that because it validly explains everything as well. I've given an explanation for everything else, as for why he's only wearing those clothes in a blizzard?

No, it tells you why the designers made the game as such but it doesn't tell you why something like that would happen if we were to pretend the pokemon world was real and attempt to explain it.

(4) These characters have been able to walk near the crater of an active volcano with no ill effects, suddenly, a little bit of cold, which many characters have been shown in-game to be able to take (Candice, Maylene, Pryce) is supposed to kill him? People always seem to underestimate the resilience of humans in this series. In the very same game, they've had a character rumoured to be strong enough to beat his Machamp at arm wrestling, and we actually see a character get hit at point-blank range with a Dragonite's hyper beam. I don't understand why people think the humans there (which have been shown to actually wield psychic powers) are as fragile as people in this world.

Yeah, for like ten minutes tops (at least, in the story, obviously you can have the character stand there a lot longer than that, but that's not part of the canon story). Red is implied to have stood at that peak for months, that a pretty long time to stand in inappropriate clothing in the freezing-ass cold.

Yes, the theory's also an attempt to explain his actions in-universe, but his actions could be explained many ways (and have, like the pressure of being Champion getting to him etc), but its quite clearly an attempt by most people to satisfy their need to make Pokemon more mature than it really is.
Yes, it is weird, but that doesn't mean he's dead. Why no one's heard from him is yet another joke on being a silent protagonist, as no one would ever have heard anything from him.

To be honest, the pokemon series is already quite mature as is (Kanto certainly was), there's no need for people to make it more so, its just fun to speculate.

 

[The Outrage]

Yeah, for like ten minutes tops (at least, in the story, obviously you can have the character stand there a lot longer than that, but that's not part of the canon story). Red is implied to have stood at that peak for months, that a pretty long time to stand in inappropriate clothing in the freezing-ass cold.

You go up and down the mountain. There's nothing to suggest that Red doesn't do the same, whilst staying in the mountain range. You meet him at the peak, it doesn't mean he stayed up there the entire time until you found him. He could be going up there for training and coming down to the foot of the mountain to rest.

To be honest, the pokemon series is already quite mature as is (Kanto certainly was), there's no need for people to make it more so, its just fun to speculate.

And yet they do, because apparently now you've murdered Blue's Raticate, and that's why he's in Pokemon Tower, and not because he's filling up the Pokedex and that's the only place to find Cubones. Obviously his asking you if your Pokemon are dead has some sort of hidden message behind it rather than the obvious 'being a jerk to my rival' characterization he was given.

Yeah, for like ten minutes tops (at least, in the story, obviously you can have the character stand there a lot longer than that, but that's not part of the canon story).

And all the trainers who hang out at Mt. Chimney to train? Or the fact that game-play time is probably longer than real-world time, and Red's trek through Mt. Ember to get the Ruby Plate was certainly much longer than ten-minutes in-game, and the RSE protagonist, fighting off all of Team Magma twice at Mt. Chimney certainly stayed there much longer.

Then there's the fact that we have swimmers who seem to never get out of the water, yet I'm sure people assume that in-universe, they aren't there all the time. So why is it, that people assume Red is at the peak of Mt. Silver the entire time just because that's where you meet him? He could very well be taking shelter elsewhere when he needs a rest. None of his family or friends have heard any news from him. His friends and family are pretty stationary in Pallet and Viridian, he doesn't need to be at the peak of the mountain for that to happen. In fact, since the entire mountain range is restricted, he could rest anywhere.

And you've neglected to address many of the other points (even in that quote) that I've addressed. To add more on the iconicity of his outfit, Cynthia and Looker appear in their trademark designs, and the former wears winter coats in summer, because they were bonus characters, much like Red, whereas Caitlin actually received an updated look because she had a role in the plot. Every other character, Jasmine in DPPt, and Steven also appeared in their iconic clothing even though the former got a redesign anyway in the remakes.

No, it tells you why the designers made the game as such but it doesn't tell you why something like that would happen if we were to pretend the pokemon world was real and attempt to explain it.

So explain Game Freak's existence, and dialogue in-universe that doesn't break the fourth wall. Oh wait, your response to that was "Should we also abolish fun whilst we're at it?"

Good job with your debate etiquette there.

 

[Green Zubat]

You go up and down the mountain. There's nothing to suggest that Red doesn't do the same, whilst staying in the mountain range. You meet him at the peak, it doesn't mean he stayed up there the entire time until you found him. He could be going up there for training and coming down to the foot of the mountain to rest.



And yet they do, because apparently now you've murdered Blue's Raticate, and that's why he's in Pokemon Tower, and not because he's filling up the Pokedex and that's the only place to find Cubones. Obviously his asking you if your Pokemon are dead has some sort of hidden message behind it rather than the obvious 'being a jerk to my rival' characterization he was given.

Well, tbf, I always thought it seemed a little out of place for him to suddenly get so uncharacteristically serious in the tower for no reason. But whatever, its completely subjective.

And all the trainers who hang out at Mt. Chimney to train? Or the fact that game-play time is probably longer than real-world time, and Red's trek through Mt. Ember to get the Ruby Plate was certainly much longer than ten-minutes in-game, and the RSE protagonist, fighting off all of Team Magma twice at Mt. Chimney certainly stayed there much longer.

Then there's the fact that we have swimmers who seem to never get out of the water, yet I'm sure people assume that in-universe, they aren't there all the time. So why is it, that people assume Red is at the peak of Mt. Silver the entire time just because that's where you meet him? He could very well be taking shelter elsewhere when he needs a rest. None of his family or friends have heard any news from him. His friends and family are pretty stationary in Pallet and Viridian, he doesn't need to be at the peak of the mountain for that to happen. In fact, since the entire mountain range is restricted, he could rest anywhere.

See below.

And you've neglected to address many of the other points (even in that quote) that I've addressed. To add more on the iconicity of his outfit, Cynthia and Looker appear in their trademark designs, and the former wears winter coats in summer, because they were bonus characters, much like Red, whereas Caitlin actually received an updated look because she had a role in the plot. Every other character, Jasmine in DPPt, and Steven also appeared in their iconic clothing even though the former got a redesign anyway in the remakes.

So explain Game Freak's existence, and dialogue in-universe that doesn't break the fourth wall. Oh wait, your response to that was "Should we also abolish fun whilst we're at it?"

Good job with your debate etiquette there.

Oh come off it, I was merely trying to lighten the mood after your attempt to crush all speculation regardless.

And I don't know why I didn't respond to your other points, must've missed 'em, my bad.

If its true, then it doesn't need an in-universe explanation.

Do we require an in-universe explanation for Game Freak's existence, and their dialogue claiming to create you? No, because that's breaking the fourth wall to make a shout out. It's the same case with Red.

People are only making up these theories because they can't accept that its just as simple as that. An in-universe explanation doesn't need to be given for breaking the fourth wall.

People don't need to speculate about anything, but we do, because its fun. There's nothing wrong with that.

I'd like to point out game-play and story segregation as the reason for that because it validly explains everything as well. I've given an explanation for everything else, as for why he's only wearing those clothes in a blizzard?

(1) In the original games, the peak wasn't shown to be a perpetual blizzard, so he didn't need additional clothes.

But its not the original games anymore its the remakes and in the remakes there's a blizzard.

(2) They wanted to keep is image iconic, rather than updating him like all the other leaders. After all, if they were going to keep him silent and have him "black out", why on earth would you change the most noticeable thing about him? His Gen II sprite after all is just a mirror image and recolour of his yellow sprite.

This doesn't disprove anything I've proposed, its just an alternate explanation.

(3) In the case of HgSs, they added a blizzard, but they clearly wanted to keep his iconic look. They've re-edited everyone, and updated their look from FrLg, even people who wouldn't really look that different. They didn't do that with Red for the same reason as #2

See above.

(4) These characters have been able to walk near the crater of an active volcano with no ill effects, suddenly, a little bit of cold, which many characters have been shown in-game to be able to take (Candice, Maylene, Pryce) is supposed to kill him? People always seem to underestimate the resilience of humans in this series. In the very same game, they've had a character rumoured to be strong enough to beat his Machamp at arm wrestling, and we actually see a character get hit at point-blank range with a Dragonite's hyper beam. I don't understand why people think the humans there (which have been shown to actually wield psychic powers) are as fragile as people in this world.

Er, at that altitude and in that weather its likely to be more than "a little bit of cold", probably a lot colder than the temperatures they maintain in those ice gyms. Not only that, but are a number of other risk factors (like lower oxygen concentration and danger of falling) that make living there quite hazardous. Its easily conceivable that comeone could perish there.

Also, in response to your volcano (and seawater) thing, that (at best) only shows that they can withstand very high temperatures and long periods immersed in water, not necessarily very low temps.

Also-also, I'd like to draw to your attention Froslass and the general route 217 area.

Legends in snowy regions say that a woman who was lost on an icy mountain was reborn as Froslass

Which implies she (a pokemon-world person) died of cold and came back as a Froslass. Likewise on Rt. 217 there's talk of hauntings in the area (there's even a ghost), which implies people have died of cold there. That's all I can remember of the top of my head but it seems there is at least some evidence that the humans of the pokemon world are susceptible to low temperatures. In fact, your comment about Cynthia earlier actually could support this, that is to say if humans in the pokemon world feel the cold more they'd naturally wear more clothing than we would at higher temperatures (depending on how nesh they are).

Oh, and for the record, I don't actually believe this (that pokehumans are more suceptible to cold than we are) I'm just playing devils advocate. Personally, I think all those oddities (e.g. swimmers that never leave the water, trainers that seem to live 24-7 next to or inside active volcanoes etc.) are just the limitations imposed by the medium we experience pokemon in i.e. video games. After all, the programmers have better things to spend their time & the data on that making sure that every single trainer in the water or near a volcano is shown to spend some times out/away from it. I know you could argue that this could also apply for Red too, and I agree it could, but the fact that he is implied to never leaves the peak, dressed inappropriately and the way he behaves could all also be intentional and that is what I choose to believe (and so speculation continues).

Yes, the theory's also an attempt to explain his actions in-universe, but his actions could be explained many ways (and have, like the pressure of being Champion getting to him etc), but its quite clearly an attempt by most people to satisfy their need to make Pokemon more mature than it really is.
Yes, it is weird, but that doesn't mean he's dead. Why no one's heard from him is yet another joke on being a silent protagonist, as no one would ever have heard anything from him.

In summation: We're both right (or at least, no one's wrong, per se).