The Legends: Arceus Graphics Discussion

[lisianthus]

Do you think that the graphics in Legends: Arceus should be improved? Are they good enough? You can engage in discussion here! Please keep it civil/chill!

 

[FaeKing17]

The games already been made so improving is irrelevant. Let’s just hope they can be better come the next game, or will we have to wait another 2-4 test games for it.

 

[pitchtheripoff]

The games already been made so improving is irrelevant. Let’s just hope they can be better come the next game, or will we have to wait another 2-4 test games for it.

Graphic improvements aren't impossible post-launch. You can always patch them in, though it IS Game Freak and Nintendo we are talking about.

 

[pitchtheripoff]

Could they improve through updates that overhaul the models? It's a lot of work, but, is it possible?

I think it's a bit too much work. Overhauling the models would probably mean changing a lot of stuff in-game outside of the models as well so it's not as jarring.

 

[pitchtheripoff]

Then once the new Legends games (hopefully) come out they'll flesh it all out a bit more then heh

Oh, for sure. They'd probably feature new Pokemon anyways since it'll most likely come out in Gen 9.

 

[MrMeowPuss]

I think it would always be nice to have better graphics but since it’s hardware related I don’t think we could realistically expect much better unless Nintendo release a Pro Switch that has a dock with some integrated GPU to help boost its power.

 

[pitchtheripoff]

I think it would always be nice to have better graphics but since it’s hardware related I don’t think we could realistically expect much better unless Nintendo release a Pro Switch that has a dock with some integrated GPU to help boost its power.

It is 100% NOT hardware related. Have you seen Little Nightmares II or Breath of the Wild running on it?

 

[FaeKing17]

I think it would always be nice to have better graphics but since it’s hardware related I don’t think we could realistically expect much better unless Nintendo release a Pro Switch that has a dock with some integrated GPU to help boost its power.

The switch can handle a lot

 

[MrMeowPuss]

It is 100% NOT hardware related. Have you seen Little Nightmares II or Breath of the Wild running on it?

The switch can handle a lot

The only reason I would say it’s hardware related would be because of the Pokémon games themselves. I have no knowledge of game design but with BOTW, you don’t have as many enemies you need to render with different movements etc.

With this game, you would need the rendering for 100+ Pokémon plus the characters in game so it’s a lot more difficult. It may honestly be possible but since SWSH was the first game we got with this sort of Art style, they probably need a lot more time to be able to really utilize the hardware.

If you look at even consoles from Sony/Microsoft, only towards the end of a generation the developers can really get every little bit of performance out of the hardware.

 

[Greninjaman]

I think we can all agree that in comparison to the gen six games (which of course are the first mainline games to be 3D), Legends: Arceus looks FAR better.

 

[Oriden]

Yes. But what i'm saying that we shouldn't cut Gamefreak any slack because they decided to only start doing 3D in 2013. Plus, they could have, i don't know, asked Nintendo for development advice? Since they have been making 3D since 1996? If Gamefreak was an indie company with literally no attachment to some big company that pioneered 3D, sure. But they have a connection to Nintendo.

And really, it's been 9 years. Should we really still be cutting them any slack when it comes to 3D when they have made at least seven games with it at this point? Other companies with far less successful franchises and most likely less budget and manpower mastered 3D much faster than Gamefreak.


Yes, that's totally what i said. And we all know that just a step behind means literally nearly two decades before deciding to make any 3D game.

My point is that we shouldn't be going on GF any easier because they decided to take so long to finally make 3D games. Maybe not expect as much as companies that have far more experience, but at least expect quality.

Your point is pretty much sounding like "stick with what you know or else you had better instantly master anything new."

The classic woe is me counter for the Pokémon franchise?

No, it's the classic counterpoint of that they're not Nintendo, they don't have 20+ years of 3D graphics under their belt, and I am pretty tired of this attitude that they should have just whipped out the Nintendo cheat code to becoming masters of 3D graphics already or go back to making their stagnant cookie cutter 2D games.

I don't have a problem with the opinion that the graphics don't look good. Can't argue with that, the scenery in the trailers alternated drastically between being kind of nice and hella cringe. But it is tiring when people proceed to slam Game Freak over it and declare a game terrible because it didn't live up to their graphic standards.

Simple fact is that they're not a AAA company and they never will be. Their connection with Nintendo does not mean unlimited access to Nintendo's resources. Nintendo has their own games to work on and dedicate their time to that they will actually get 100% of the profits from instead of Pokemon. The graphics aren't that bad that Nintendo has to declare a state of emergency and jump in to fix it to save their brand.

Yes, the graphics aren't great, but I wish people would just dial it back a bit and quit acting like Game Freak doesn't deserve their own franchise because of it. Graphics has never, at any point in time, ever been their strong point. But they clearly love the series, they want to work on their own games, they want to get better, and no amount of money or getting someone else to do the work for them will instantly improve their skills.


So there, end rant.

 

[Norzan]

Your point is pretty much sounding like "stick with what you know or else you had better instantly master anything new."

Not instantly master it, but be aware of how it works on a basic level. My problem with your comparison with Nintendo and the N64 is that in the early 3D era hardly anyone knew how 3D worked since there wasn't nearly 20 years of multiple companies and like three generations of consoles using it to make games. There were hardly any examples and techniques they could pull from to make their first attempt the best it could be. While Gamefreak has all of that, plus affiliation with Nintendo.

So when people say to go easy on Gamefreak when it comes to handling 3D, no. I'm not going to do that. Even less now that it has been nine freaking years and seven games using it.

And i'm not saying the game sucks because of the lackluster graphics. Just saying it could be better.

Simple fact is that they're not a AAA company and they never will be.

They aren't indie either like some people try to imply, which is something used by some people to justify not hiring more people or having more budget. Yes, i know the games aren't main money maker for the franchise, but the franchise is still the highest grossing media in the world, and the games were the ones that started the franchise. And whether or not the they are AAA or indie, i kind of expect that amount of money to be somewhat matched by a similar quality product.

 

[Oriden]

Not instantly master it, but be aware of how it works on a basic level. My problem with your comparison with Nintendo and the N64 is that in the early 3D era hardly anyone knew how 3D worked since there wasn't nearly 20 years of multiple companies and like three generations of consoles using it to make games. There weren't hardly any examples and techniques they could pull from to make their first attempt the best it could be. While Gamefreak has all of that, plus affiliation with Nintendo

So when people say to go easy on Gamefreak when it comes to handling 3D, no. I'm not going to do that. Even less now that it has been nine freaking years and seven games using it.

And i'm not saying the game sucks because of the lackluster graphics. Just saying it could be better.


They aren't indie either like some people try to imply, which is something used by some people to justify not hiring more people or having more budget. Yes, i know the games aren't main money maker for the franchise, but the franchise is still the highest grossing media in the world, and the games were the ones that started the franchise. And whether or not the they are AAA or indie, i kind of expect that amount of money to be somewhat matched by a similar quality product.

Definitely could be better, yeah.

But my view with it is that graphics are very much an art thing, and there's no simple straight-forward instruction manual on how to do art that will bring you straight from 0 to 100 fast. They had to jump from flat 2D landscapes to painting on 3D forms, and then have been steadily increasing the size and the angles and using more complex shapes... if you were given several canvases to paint all in different sizes and increasing complexity, I don't think you would see as steady of improvement either. It's like having to relearn your art style every single time.

 

[FaeKing17]

Actually when can we give them some pressure about the graphics?

 

[FaeKing17]

never(lol)
Really, once they have more practice about it. I'd say at the 2nd or 3rd Legends game they should know what they're doing. Hopefully Gen 9 looks good too.

The 2nd and 3rd part actually made me laugh

 

[Oriden]

Actually when can we give them some pressure about the graphics?

I mean, realistically we can't do squat. It's not like they read our forum posts.

But I think it's less of a 'when' and more of a 'where'- I imagine anywhere you could post a review would be an effective place to present some polite criticism on areas that they should direct their focus on, because a generic "get better" doesn't help an artist much, but pointing out specific examples and how it could be improved can be helpful.

 

[PinkIceFox]

(Woo we get to hear PIF's not-sleep deprived crazy brain thoughts!)

I graphics are fine. 7/10 look amazing in my eyes. I agree with sleep deprived me with the fact that I grew up experiencing Super Mario 64, FF7, and other games as 3D actually started actually being a thing so it's likely because of that I'm more accepting of graphics. That and Aspergers child brain. I do wish there was a little more oomph to details and textures though. We know the switch can do more. Mario Odyssey is gorgeous and stylized. Breath of the wild manages to look amazing even when you're standing in a field of nothing but grass. Well until you want to look at something small on the ground and the grass is in the way. FREAKIN GRASS. The next Rune Factory Game looks drop dead GORGEOUS.

It's not pokemon's fault though. It's gamefreak's. Probably because of the dudes in the upper levels in charge. They're the ones who seem to act like they're just a lil indie company. For whatever reason they are able to make environments like towns and the like look amazing, but once you hand them the shovel and bucket to make the open wild areas they kinda trip on themselves. Though S/S's DLC proved they can make real pretty wild areas too.

But I'll be happy enough as long as they never do another mainline game that looks chibified or in BDSP's case, fetusified.

 

[Esiouqrut]

For whatever reason they are able to make environments like towns and the like look amazing, but once you hand them the shovel and bucket to make the open wild areas they kinda trip on themselves. Though S/S's DLC proved they can make real pretty wild areas too.

To be fair, though, making wide, open areas is more complicated than making self-contained, small, linear zones separated by loading screens. There are a lot less to consider and work on. And I'd have to disagree with the statement about IoA/CT. While they look better than the base game, from what we've seen I still think PL:A is an overall improvement from that.

It's not pokemon's fault though. It's gamefreak's. Probably because of the dudes in the upper levels in charge. They're the ones who seem to act like they're just a lil indie company.

Now I'd have to partially agree with this statement. Pokémon's system basically can be done for everything except the game. Anime, merchandise, TCG can be completed in a relatively short period of time compared to game development. Though I do think the higher-up dudes sometimes make quite a bizarre decision.

 

[Puddle]

While the graphics are perhaps not quite as detailed as they could have been, I do like the aesthetic. Everything looks as if it's been hand-painted which gives the game an old-time storybook feel, and the clouds are beautiful. I love how the sky looks at night.

 

[PinkIceFox]

Hnnn that picture is gorgeous! I'm not a fan of the clouds (though tbf its really difficult to get me to like game clouds). I should probably hate the grass too but like. I hate the grass in BOTW so much. Its pretty but GOD IT IS EVERYWHERE AND ONLY GOOD FOR GETTING FAIRIES, RICE, AND WHEAT. Sparse grass is good. Mmhm yes.

My baby clefairies gettin their moonbathing in. Yes. Perfect. Mmhm.