The Mega Sceptile and Mega Swampert Thread

[HyruleAlpha]

Mega Sceptile losing its tail seems silly to me. Still, I am curious to find out if it will add any benefits or disadvantages. Maybe decrease Attack, or something.

 

[Steel_Justice]

They look cool but I'm curious about the new stats and moves. Swampert getting swift swim would do well with Politoed support but lack of set up moves is disappointing. I would have given it mold breaker to hit levitators with earthquake and be able to use stealth rock past magic bouncers. Sceptile getting a dragon type is awesome since we don't have one of those (and I hope he isn't going to be the only one in the future) though getting Lighting Rod is strange since it already resists electric by a large degree and he already needs to mega evolve to switch in on those and no opponent would throw out electric moves once it reveals itself. Though there are always movepool updates. Remember when XY wasn't released yet and everyone thought Mega Blastoise was going to suck because he only had one move that works with mega launcher at the time? Some move retcons latter and he turned into a formidable opponent. The same could happen with Swampert and Sceptile. Some people have pitched teaming Sceptile with Heliolisk to activate lightning rod easier. But what if Sceptile can learn electrify in ORAS to activate its own ability? Would that be broken? I don't really use electrify so I don't know all its properties, though it can't possibly be more OP than Mega Blaziken or Mega Kangaskhan.

 

[AndyPKMN]

I doubt it. I think it's just an attack animation, with the tail regrowing after the attack is complete.

 

[pokefan548]

The whole tail-coming-ff thing is actually something that actually occurs with most real life geckos. The tail stores nutrients for long-term storage, but also acts a means of escape if a predator decides to go for the tail. It disconnects and the little lizard scampers away to safety, and regrows it's tail, albeit shorter and uglier. The Treecko line has always been fairly close to it's source material, and it's mega doesn't disappoint.

As for it's stance, Every time I see it, I can only think

Spoiler

[video=youtube;Sqz5dbs5zmo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo[/video]

 

[Daleklugia]

They look cool but I'm curious about the new stats and moves. Swampert getting swift swim would do well with Politoed support but lack of set up moves is disappointing. I would have given it mold breaker to hit levitators with earthquake and be able to use stealth rock past magic bouncers. Sceptile getting a dragon type is awesome since we don't have one of those (and I hope he isn't going to be the only one in the future) though getting Lighting Rod is strange since it already resists electric by a large degree and he already needs to mega evolve to switch in on those and no opponent would throw out electric moves once it reveals itself. Though there are always movepool updates. Remember when XY wasn't released yet and everyone thought Mega Blastoise was going to suck because he only had one move that works with mega launcher at the time? Some move retcons latter and he turned into a formidable opponent. The same could happen with Swampert and Sceptile. Some people have pitched teaming Sceptile with Heliolisk to activate lightning rod easier. But what if Sceptile can learn electrify in ORAS to activate its own ability? Would that be broken? I don't really use electrify so I don't know all its properties, though it can't possibly be more OP than Mega Blaziken or Mega Kangaskhan.

When I first saw that mega sceptile had lightningrod, I was a bit confused at first. But I think one of the main reasons they gave mega sceptile lightning rod was so that it would be much harder to paralyze. Normal sceptile is fast but lacks good defense, so it could be crippled by thunder wave. Now that mega sceptile is immune to thunder wave and electric moves with paralyzation as a second effect, it becomes much harder to cripple.

 

[Steel_Justice]

When I first saw that mega sceptile had lightningrod, I was a bit confused at first. But I think one of the main reasons they gave mega sceptile lightning rod was so that it would be much harder to paralyze. Normal sceptile is fast but lacks good defense, so it could be crippled by thunder wave. Now that mega sceptile is immune to thunder wave and electric moves with paralyzation as a second effect, it becomes much harder to cripple.

True that is a useful ability but Sceptile doesn't have the best coverage and even with a dragon type wouldn't be that hard to wall and knock out if it still has low defenses. Also many common thunder wave users like Klefki and Thunderus don't have anything to fear from Sceptile anyway thanks to rather poor coverage unless they really jack up its attack so it can use earthquake and rock slide.

 

[IlluminationTheory]

Mega Sceptile in rain teams? Are there still rain teams since the weather nerf?

There were weather teams in Gen III and Gen IV when Drizzle and Drought were ubers-only, why wouldn't there be in Gen VI?

 

[GiraFragMich]

What I really love is the red color they used for each of the Hoenn Mega Starter designs. This reddish hue is present on all three of them and make them more of a set. It's a really nice touch.

 

[Envoy]

My thoughts on these two:

Mega Sceptile: Has more utility than you'd see at first glance. Lightningrod makes it essentially immune to paralysis. It also shuts down Volt Switch *cough*Rotom*cough* and ruins electric strategies. It works well with Gyarados and on Rain teams. That said, its six weaknesses do hurt, especially Ice and Fairy. Talonflame will still suck. Unless it gets a revamped movepool and the stats are allocated correctly, I don't see this thing making it past UU. It's just too risky to use in OU as it has too many things that can check/counter it. Still, it does have a shot, albeit a small one.

Mega Swampert: You thought Mega Sceptile had it bad? Mega Swampert is, I'm sorry to say, probably the worst of the Hoenn Starter Megas. I think that Mega Aggron proves that you need more than sheer bulk and a good typing to justify the use of a Mega Stone. In fact, I believe Mega Venusaur is currently the only defensive Mega in OU, and that can be attributed to its ability to recover health. As a defensive Pokemon, MPert would need Drain Punch to even compete, let alone thrive in this environment. Not to mention that, Rock aside, its resistances seem to be inferior to MSaur's. But then, what if MPert isn't meant to play defensively? Swift Swim suggests that it'll try to be an offensive wrecking ball. Maybe its Attack is where it gets the boost. Assuming its Speed stat doesn't change though, I think it'll be too slow to sweep effectively. What it really needs is a resurgence of Drizzle (and this seems unlikely as the most obvious way to do this is...with another Mega.) Basically, if Politoed ever gets a buff that allows it to be relevant in OU again, then MPert will truly be the underwater beast its trying to be. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to spend your Mega Slot on this over, say MStoise MGyara. UU is my prediction for this one too.

In UU, both of them can truly shine. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Sceptilite (?) got banned in that metagame.

Aesthetically, they are both pretty awesome looking and I like them both more or less equally (I'm leaning towards Sceptile though.) In-game, they'll both be very useful. Competitively, however, I feel a tad underwhelmed by them.

 

[Psycho Pacifist]

Heatran is a pretty good partner for M-Sceptile. It resists Sceptiles weaknesses, and Sceptile hit's it's water weakness.

I think Sceptile will end up in OU. Dragon is still a great type, it's fast, and with the right stat manipulation it'll hit hard. I'll definitely use it.

 

[Envoy]

Heatran is a pretty good partner for M-Sceptile. It resists Sceptiles weaknesses, and Sceptile hit's it's water weakness.

I think Sceptile will end up in OU. Dragon is still a great type, it's fast, and with the right stat manipulation it'll hit hard. I'll definitely use it.

While I'd definitely use Sceptile too, being Dragon type is no longer a guarantee of anything. Even ignoring the subpar dragons like Altaria, Druddigon, and Flygon, Salamence and Goodra recently dropped to UU while Hydreigon has been there for awhile.

Personally, I hate Heatran and everything it represents, but if I were to pair it up with someone, it would be MSaur as they cover each other's weaknesses almost perfectly.

 

[DoctorWhy]

I don't see how the Dragon type itself could ever be considered "good". The type is practically useless. It's not good against anything at all, except the few types it resists. The only thing that keeps the Dragon type above water is the amazing stats of some of the Pokemon that have it. This is why so many Dragons, especially ones like Altaria who don't have great stats, become useless.

 

[Envoy]

I don't see how the Dragon type itself could ever be considered "good". The type is practically useless. It's not good against anything at all, except the few types it resists. The only thing that keeps the Dragon type above water is the amazing stats of some of the Pokemon that have it. This is why so many Dragons, especially ones like Altaria who don't have great stats, become useless.

In fairness, its neutral coverage is unmatched (it's only resisted by Steel and now nullified by Fairy,) and the four resistances that it does have happen to be among the most common types in the game (Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric,) so it does have its uses.

 

[The Outrage]

In fairness, its neutral coverage is unmatched (it's only resisted by Steel and now nullified by Fairy,) and the four resistances that it does have happen to be among the most common types in the game (Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric,) so it does have its uses.

Was unmatched. Ghost type is up there with the same number of types resisting and being immune to it, along with sporting two immunities of its own. Not sure if the extra SE-hit on psychic is really notable it but there it is. The only thing holding Ghost back is the lack of hard-hitting moves.

 

[DoctorWhy]

In fairness, its neutral coverage is unmatched (it's only resisted by Steel and now nullified by Fairy,) and the four resistances that it does have happen to be among the most common types in the game (Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric,) so it does have its uses.

Was unmatched. Ghost type is up there with the same number of types resisting and being immune to it, along with sporting two immunities of its own. Not sure if the extra SE-hit on psychic is really notable it but there it is. The only thing holding Ghost back is the lack of hard-hitting moves.

This exactly. Type-wise, Dragon's purpose has been smashed to pieces. If Ghost typed, and for that matter other better typed, Pokemon just got better stats they'd far outclass Dragons. Sorry this may be off-topic, but another note on Ghost: in addition to Dragon, it made the Dark type near completely useless as well. Ghost does almost everything Dark does and more.

Back on topic, they better give Mega Sceptile good enough stat boosts to make the Dragon type worth it, because as of right now, I see almost zero benefit of the Dragon type being added to it besides Dragon's few resistances (which hardly makes up for the extra weaknesses) and the "cool" factor.

 

[Ampharos King]

When you get down to it, Mega Sceptile's Dragon typing doesn't even matter too much.

Even if it were mono Grass, can Mega Sceptile thrive in a tier that boasts Gale Wing Talonflames, Mega Pinsirs, Togekiss, Mawile, and Aegislash? Or in a lower tier that now contains the likes of Goodra or Salamence?

Fairy-type alone was not Mega Sceptile's only limiting factor. Priority Flying-type moves, the wide distribution of Ice-type attacks, and Pokemon that resist Sceptile's Grass/Fighting/Rock core and/or have Air Balloon (in the case of HP Ground or Earthquake) also screw it over.

Let's assume that Fairy were never introduced. Good. Mawile and Togekiss are no longer viable counters. But it still doesn't erase Talonflame, Aegislash, and Mega Pinsir.

Dragon's nerf is nowhere near as important as Grass being a bad defensive typing overall.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

In fairness, its neutral coverage is unmatched (it's only resisted by Steel and now nullified by Fairy,) and the four resistances that it does have happen to be among the most common types in the game (Fire, Water, Grass, and Electric,) so it does have its uses.

Was unmatched. Ghost type is up there with the same number of types resisting and being immune to it, along with sporting two immunities of its own. Not sure if the extra SE-hit on psychic is really notable it but there it is. The only thing holding Ghost back is the lack of hard-hitting moves.

This exactly. Type-wise, Dragon's purpose has been smashed to pieces. If Ghost typed, and for that matter other better typed, Pokemon just got better stats they'd far outclass Dragons. Sorry this may be off-topic, but another note on Ghost: in addition to Dragon, it made the Dark type near completely useless as well. Ghost does almost everything Dark does and more.

Back on topic, they better give Mega Sceptile good enough stat boosts to make the Dragon type worth it, because as of right now, I see almost zero benefit of the Dragon type being added to it besides Dragon's few resistances (which hardly makes up for the extra weaknesses) and the "cool" factor.

Dark has much stronger moves that have more utility, like Knock Off, Pursuit, and Sucker Punch, and nothing is immune to it. It is one of the best offensive types in the game, along with Ghost, neither is substantially better than the other.

My thoughts on these two:

Mega Sceptile: Has more utility than you'd see at first glance. Lightningrod makes it essentially immune to paralysis. It also shuts down Volt Switch *cough*Rotom*cough* and ruins electric strategies. It works well with Gyarados and on Rain teams. That said, its six weaknesses do hurt, especially Ice and Fairy. Talonflame will still suck. Unless it gets a revamped movepool and the stats are allocated correctly, I don't see this thing making it past UU. It's just too risky to use in OU as it has too many things that can check/counter it. Still, it does have a shot, albeit a small one.

Mega Swampert: You thought Mega Sceptile had it bad? Mega Swampert is, I'm sorry to say, probably the worst of the Hoenn Starter Megas. I think that Mega Aggron proves that you need more than sheer bulk and a good typing to justify the use of a Mega Stone. In fact, I believe Mega Venusaur is currently the only defensive Mega in OU, and that can be attributed to its ability to recover health. As a defensive Pokemon, MPert would need Drain Punch to even compete, let alone thrive in this environment. Not to mention that, Rock aside, its resistances seem to be inferior to MSaur's. But then, what if MPert isn't meant to play defensively? Swift Swim suggests that it'll try to be an offensive wrecking ball. Maybe its Attack is where it gets the boost. Assuming its Speed stat doesn't change though, I think it'll be too slow to sweep effectively. What it really needs is a resurgence of Drizzle (and this seems unlikely as the most obvious way to do this is...with another Mega.) Basically, if Politoed ever gets a buff that allows it to be relevant in OU again, then MPert will truly be the underwater beast its trying to be. Otherwise, I don't see any reason to spend your Mega Slot on this over, say MStoise MGyara. UU is my prediction for this one too.

In UU, both of them can truly shine. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Sceptilite (?) got banned in that metagame.

Aesthetically, they are both pretty awesome looking and I like them both more or less equally (I'm leaning towards Sceptile though.) In-game, they'll both be very useful. Competitively, however, I feel a tad underwhelmed by them.

Excuse me what do you mean by too slow to sweep effectively? You do realize that even if MSwampert had the exact same base speed as it has now, in Rain it would outspeed every Pokémon barring Deoxys-S and Scarfers up to base 95 speed, and if it got only a +10 boost it would outspeed every unboosted Pokémon and Scarfers up to +Spe 108 (Terrakion). A + 62 Spe boost would let it Speed tie +Spe Scarf Deoxys-S, but now I'm being silly. What Swampert REALLY needs is Swords Dance, as its power will likely be underwhelming with no tiem and no boosting moves, but I would not be surprised if Swampert makes OU - he was an OU staple until power creep caught up with him in BWB2W2, and the Mega might be just the ticket to put him back into that spot.

 

[The Outrage]

Dark has much stronger moves that have more utility, like Knock Off, Pursuit, and Sucker Punch, and nothing is immune to it. It is one of the best offensive types in the game, along with Ghost, neither is substantially better than the other.

I don't know about that--most ghosts would prefer their STAB and things like Sableye, being dual Ghost/Dark chooses its Dark STAB (understandable considering it often goes for a single move). I don't really see non-Ghosts use Ghost type moves, opting instead for Dark even when Dark/Fighting has better overall coverage iirc.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Dark has much stronger moves that have more utility, like Knock Off, Pursuit, and Sucker Punch, and nothing is immune to it. It is one of the best offensive types in the game, along with Ghost, neither is substantially better than the other.

I don't know about that--most ghosts would prefer their STAB and things like Sableye, being dual Ghost/Dark chooses its Dark STAB (understandable considering it often goes for a single move). I don't really see non-Ghosts use Ghost type moves, opting instead for Dark even when Dark/Fighting has better overall coverage iirc.

Uh, it sounds like you agree with me - I was speaking up in defense of Dark type, saying that it definitely has a bunch of advantages over Ghost that mean it is on the same level or slightly better as an offensive type.

 

[The Outrage]

Uh, it sounds like you agree with me - I was speaking up in defense of Dark type, saying that it definitely has a bunch of advantages over Ghost that mean it is on the same level or slightly better as an offensive type.

I guess its technically true that I agree with you. It's just my final conclusion that differs. Whereas you conclude neither is substantially better as your final assessment, my conclusion is basically that Ghost is only the preferred move for Ghost types whereas other Pokemon can find better use in un-STAB'd dark moves. Ghost is a lot like Dragon was. We love its amazing neutral coverage but its actually not that great on anything that doesn't get STAB on it.