The Permanent EXP Share

[Greninjaman]

When it comes to the EXP Share and how it functions now compared to Gen 6 (we could turn it off then, unlike Let's Go Pikachu/Eevee onward). I am aware that some people hate it. Why is that? I like it because it means I don't have to grind for hours. If I don't want something to get overleveled, I just put it into the PC (which we can access anywhere starting with Let's Go, Pikachu/Eevee). The thing is, this system was there in Gen one. The EXP. Share from Gen 2 onward has become a better version of the EXP. All from Gen 1.

 

[Morningstar]

I think its primarily because people conflate QoL and accessibility with making the game easier. They think the tedium is part of the difficulty.

I presume this has to do with "F*** you, got mine" specifically the "I suffered to get to where I am today, so everyone else should suffer to" subset. The idea being that becuase they had to waste time training up their party, that others must as well.

A related issue is that starting with Gen 6, Pokemon difficulty in general had taken a dive and as such people blamed the Exp Share for that (ignoring most other factors, including the free Mega Lucario, and the variety of mons you can get even at route 1).

These other factors are actually related with the former. Part of the difficulty in the earlier games is that Early routes had the diversity of Victorian England and as such were filled with Normal, Bug, Flying, Dark and Water types (if near the sea), a roster that has severe weaknesses that the starter may not compensate for (esp if you picked the Water starter). Assuming you had decided to fill yout party ASAP, you would be left with mons that struggle to keep up outside the starter, have common shared weaknesses and might not be enoguth to contend with the E4 (esp if said E4 wa sSinnoh's, which is not that far from when X and Y were released). If you wanted something that can counter a specific gym's type specialty and said specialty isn't weak to any of those types, then you have to find a nearby mon of the right type and train it up as it would likely be severely underleveled (an extreme case being the Johto games). BW actually srtated to adress the issue by making Audino, Unova's chansey analoge, an omnipresent but uncommon staple of all its area's wild pokemon rosters, which combined with the shaking grass mechanic, made it easy to level grind reltive to the predecessors (esp since it debuted a new EXP system that scaled based on how wide the level gap is, something I don't think the 3DS games had)

Another thing people complain about is affection, for similar reason. It is not QoL but rather another attempt to show the bonds betwixt trainer and mon, but it also made the game easier by basically loading the dice as far as evasion or crits go (and having new effects like a RNG based Sturdy or status purging).

 

[Daren]

To put it simply, GameFreak seem unable or unwilling to balance it.

I think a well designed RPG is one where playing the game thoroughly will on average make you strong enough to defeat each boss with proper tactics when you reach them, and grinding is a way to get around an obstacle you just can't figure out.

Now, I'll be honest; Pokémon wasn't too good at this in the past; I found that against level appropriate wild enemies it often takes 10 KOs or so to level, so that is a lot of fighting. They could get grind heavy, especially when you add a new party member or at the Elite Four. That said I found several of them actually scaled decently if you stuck to mostly six Pokémon at a time rather than switching heavily and didn't use Repel in caves and other areas. Playing like that I found FR/LG, HG/SS, and Platinum mostly required grinding for the Elite Four or very early on (and this was under challenge rules).

Always on Exp Share gave it the opposite problem; your party levels skyrocket if you try to play the game with a reasonable level of completion, even ending up higher level than the bosses, on top of the advantages you get from EVs. And now the DLC makes it worse by having you get Exp even faster.
Sure, you can switch around your party but doesn't it feel strange that having many Pokémon is now a way of making yourself weaker rather than a way of gaining the advantage of having better variety?
It's not like this is an unsolvable problem; Suikoden solved having a massive RPG roster without massive grinding back in 1995 by making characters level up very quickly until they're slightly higher level than the opponent and than drop off incredibly fast.

 

[UxieLover1994]

If people keep complaining about the games being too easy, chances are they'll just do an ultra-hard game in the future. One where there's no Exp Share until the Elite Four and Champion is defeated, Pokémon only get 1/4 of EXP compared to other games, all trainer battles involve Pokémon with held items and type coverage in moves, no Chansey or Audino for quick grinding, less recovery locations like Pokémon Centers, and more aggressive Pokémon that are hard to outrun and provide paltry EXP.

And trust me, we do have ultra-hard aspects in later Pokémon games that only a skilled player could manage. Remember all those Seven-Star Tera Raids, especially the recent one with Mewtwo? Even the recently introduced Ogre Oustin' is borderline impossible to do solo in later difficulties, and still very hard on multiplayer mode (I've only completed all 10 rounds on Hard mode twice).

 

[Norzan]

If people keep complaining about the games being too easy, chances are they'll just do an ultra-hard game in the future.

People have done so since XY and they have only gotten easier. I don't think a lot of people were complaining about difficulty before those games, even Black and White (although you can already see some of the direction of making the games easier in this game).

Remember all those Seven-Star Tera Raids

Yeah, those poorly balanced, poorly optimized raids. Do people actually like these? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people just do them for the rewards and never touch them again.

 

[Bolt Strike]

People have done so since XY and they have only gotten easier. I don't think a lot of people were complaining about difficulty before those games, even Black and White (although you can already see some of the direction of making the games easier in this game).

XY catches a lot of flak for this, but BW is the true beginning of this mess. Pretty much every complaint people had about XY's difficulty except the EXP Share started in BW (shrinking the trainer rosters, the constant tutorials and handholding, the linear map design, etc.). I had heard supposedly (I can't find the source on this) that the change in philosophy came from complaints about DPPt being too difficult/confusing, and around XY they also started talking about the influence of mobile games, so that seems to be what they consider to be their audience.

Yeah, those poorly balanced, poorly optimized raids. Do people actually like these? I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people just do them for the rewards and never touch them again.

I don't even do them, the rewards aren't good enough. I feel like they may have even made the rewards worse on purpose because they know less people will want to play the 7 star raids because they're MUCH more difficult than the Max Raids. I miss when the raids had a higher chance of encountering shinies, that was actually good incentive to engage with them.

 

[Norzan]

XY catches a lot of flak for this, but BW is the true beginning of this mess.

Yeah, i mentioned that in my post.

even Black and White (although you can already see some of the direction of making the games easier in this game).

My point is that i don't think difficulty was brought up as a negative for Black and White for a lot of people, and if it did it wasn't brought up nowhere near as much as the following games. XY was really the first time a lot of people started complaining about lower difficulty and the Exp. Share was the major culprit of that.

 

[Greninjaman]

Yeah, i mentioned that in my post.



My point is that i don't think difficulty was brought up as a negative for Black and White for a lot of people, and if it did it wasn't brought up nowhere near as much as the following games. XY was really the first time a lot of people started complaining about lower difficulty and the Exp. Share was the major culprit of that.

I think the Kalos Gym Leaders not having more than 3 Pokemon is also a factor.

 

[Zexy]

I think Gen 6 Exp Share was a step in the right direction... By Gen 5, aside from Exp Share, a Lucky Egg was also given out for free, and considering the new XP formula, to keep a team optimally leveled, you had to switch around items and lead Pokemon way too much, that alone took more time and micro management strategising than the actual battles by some point.

The new Exp Share brought us back to the era of switching only the lead without losing out on bonuses or having to worry THAT much about switching around items for optimization. You could just play more and worry less in gens 6-7, much like you did in gens 1-4, with the exception that back then, the optimal was running only 2 mons (starter + something complementary with Exp Share) most of the game and catching/grinding the final 4 towards the end of the run, while now you should get your 6 as soon as possible.

 

[Morningstar]

If people keep complaining about the games being too easy, chances are they'll just do an ultra-hard game in the future. One where there's no Exp Share until the Elite Four and Champion is defeated, Pokémon only get 1/4 of EXP compared to other games, all trainer battles involve Pokémon with held items and type coverage in moves, no Chansey or Audino for quick grinding, less recovery locations like Pokémon Centers, and more aggressive Pokémon that are hard to outrun and provide paltry EXP.

I doubt it, if only becuase I'm ofthe opinion that we are a vocla minority and that there is a silent majority that is uncaring.

A soulslike would be very interesting but I'd only do it as a side game because it would have niche appeal at best for the same reasons, plus the fact that those games use a scheme that is incompatible with Pokemon (Real time vs Turn based)