The Pokemon Switch Version

[DoctorWhy]

I dunno. Go had a massive explosion without that, and just from the prospect of real life Pokemon. Otherwise, I have one question to ask: Did FR/LG bring back the craze? As far as I remember, it didn't. Did HG/SS? I think we saw larger numbers, but not an explosion.

FRLG was totally different though. It's hardly comparable.

1.
-The GBA was still a handheld console that primarily and largely appealed to children.
-The Switch is a hybrid console whose biggest demographic is young adults/adults, roughly in the 18-34 age range.

2.
-For FRLG, the kids that owned GBAs were likely one of two things: younger children that are new to Pokemon or older children that have stopped playing Pokemon
-The Switch Pokemon has multiple advantages: a) The Switch player base is larger and older, b) The multi-million Pokemon GO craze has revitalized Pokemon among older gamers as well as the casual sphere, c) videogames in general are becoming more popular, in general, all the time

3.
-FRLG was a remake released in a time when gaming, especially with handheld gaming being mostly geared towards kids (especially through the casual lens), and when gaming was less widespread, less technologically advanced.
-Pokemon Switch, if a Kanto game, would likely be a sequel or massive overhaul, released in a time where gaming is becoming a more and more popular form of entertainment.

4.
-FRLG released only 8 years after RG, and only 6 years after RB
-Pokemon Switch would be releasing 14 years after FRLG (but FRLG are not the game that likely matters for older gamers, who likely didn't play them since they came out so soon after the originals, and they would've been in that awkward age group where many "grow out" of Pokemon), 22 years after RG, and 20 years after RB.
-ORAS, for comparison, came out 12 years after RS. It's been 14 years since FRLG, the last Kanto game. FRLG is next in line, if we wanna talk about age - not to mention console. DP are still more relevant and more widely playable (i.e. they don't need a remake yet) than FRLG.

4. Look at the Switch userbase. Look at Pokemon's and the Switch's demographics as a whole. Many people (not saying you in particular - this entire post is a response to several comments I've seen here) here have been speaking through the BMGf bubble. We, for the most part, are superfans. And not to put us on any kind of high horse, but we're gonna end up having stronger opinions and higher standards for what kind of Pokemon game we want to see. We've also seen the obvious Kanto pandering for years, and most of us would prefer something new again. But if you look outside of our community and fandom, no Switch Pokemon game would be more successful than a Kanto (+Johto?) revisit. Millions of people who were only fans in the late 90s came back because of Pokemon GO - the same people who bought RGBY in droves and made it such a cultural phenomenon then. Many of these people played Gen I, and maaaybe Gen II, and haven't seen/played anything since. These millions of people, coincidentally, are of the same age group as the Switch's biggest userbase demographic. Plus, whatever Pokemon Switch was likely in early development stages in 2016. You know what else happened in 2016, the same time that Gamefreak would have been deciding what game to make for Pokemon Switch? The GO craze. They watched millions of people flock to Pokemon GO and its original 151, more people than Pokemon has attracted in any generation since Gen I.

We could be getting Gen 8, sure. But I see a slightly higher likelihood of a Kanto revisit - or, at the very least, that a Kanto revisit would be just as successful, if not more.

3D Kanto is exciting, but it'll definitely sell less than a new generation. From a pure sales perspective, new region is much more profitable.

You don't know this. None of us do. Personally, I'm inclined to believe the opposite. Hell, I'd prefer a new region, but I also can't deny that Kanto would probably sell better, given the Switch and its userbase.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Can we please stop assuming that the GO folks are going to buy a console game? The demographics are WAY different. The go craze is dying now. And GO is a free to use app. Some downloaded it just to join the craze, and others (most) are casual Pokemon fans who do not care much about the franchise except 'Ah Cool. This is what we watched when we were younger'.

How many of those people do you expect to go and buy a $300 console and a $60 game? Majority of the users are playing GO for free, and may not be 'hardcore' enough to purchase a Switch.

I think you guys are seriously overestimating the effect Pokemon Go is going to have on sales. Go is a freemium app, and for Pokemon Switch the players are going to require massive investment compared to that. And the players may not be 'hardcore' enough to purchase an entire console.

 

[Jukain]

The idea is to bring pokemon back to what it once was, like BOTW and Odyssey did. I'd say what I think would bring back the old player base, but it's too much to ask.

 

[Midorikawa]

Spoiler: Spoilered for size

I agree that showcasing a new region is the best way to showcase a new console... usually.

However, I think Kanto is the exception to the rule. I think that if the beginning of a new Gen on the Switch is a Kanto sequel, it will sell even better than a new region.

Why? Because of how iconic Kanto is. Especially among casuals, people who just played Gen I (and maybe II) and left the franchise when the fad ended. A lot of those people were likely thinking "man, I sure wanna play this game on a TV screen in better graphics".

Surely those guys would be more attracted to a region and Pokemon they are loosely aware of, than something completely unfamiliar for them. I also think it is a bit too soon for a new region, since Alola has lasted only 2 years sofar. I doubt the Switch Pokemon game is gonna be released any earlier than 2019, and even then I think a Kanto sequel would be the best option.

It's not the exception. People haven't come back because they don't like the changes to the game. That's why the term genrunners exists. It refers to those who believe generation 1 was the best. That the current has too many pokemon, and it's basically unrecognizable. If FRLG didn't bring them back then most definitely a kanto sequel won't. And how does Alola lasting only two years mean it's too soon for a new generation? Kalos was one year and then we got a remake. That was all of Gen VI. At least Gen VII added to it's region even if it was basically a third version. But then again before Gen III that was literally how a generation went.

I agree the next game won't come out until 2019, but a Kanto sequel would not be the way to go.

FRLG was basically just the same game. There was nothing excited added really (except the Sevii Islands, which are not even part of Kanto itself).
HGSS wasn´t even focused on Kanto, it is mainly a Johto game. Kanto is only postgame.

What part of Kanto SEQUEL are you guys failing to grasp? It would be a new generation, with new Pokemon and brand New characters, gym leaders, villains, etc.

And so is every third version, and ORAS. Your point? The remakes always came after a new region with new pokemon. ALWAYS. Because no one wants something old that they can go back and play and then get more old, just looking prettier. You want new which makes you thrive for some nostalgia and then you want to play the old.

You seem to forget we've had a sequel in the series. It hardly had any new characters. We had TWO new gym leaders. And ONE new final battle, that being the champion. E4 stayed the same. As did the majority of people. You still fought the SAME villainous team. And yet they only changed clothing. Not even the leader changed because Ghetsis was always the leader. And new pokemon? In Kanto? Where did they suddenly pop out from. Sure other pokemon may have migrated from other regions but a whole slew of new pokemon does not make sense without some convoluted plot. And Where is the fun in catching the same pokemon I've had access to in basically every game. It wouldn't be new. There would be a little changed. That's it. Just like BW2. And they can't continue the plot from the original games because they did that in Johto.

Different dimension? post game areas? Cmon ORAS did it with mirage spots. HGSS did it with radio. It can be done. That's not the problem. Also it is not like every pokemon has to be available? They can do mostly gen 1 and 2 pokemon for the main story ( and new pokemon if they introduce any ) and leave some for post game. Remaining pokemon can be available in the next Gen 8 games. Most likely DP remakes.

Um........so where is the fun? Where is the fun of mostly the same pokemon especially after alola shoved some of them down our throat?

1.
-The GBA was still a handheld console that primarily and largely appealed to children.
-The Switch is a hybrid console whose biggest demographic is young adults/adults, roughly in the 18-34 age range.

Really? After the labo announcement. Nintendo has always aimed for all ages and it still is aiming for that. The 18-34 range probably has the best chance of buying it outside of christmas and birthdays, but it remains a family system, more like the wii.

2.
-For FRLG, the kids that owned GBAs were likely one of two things: younger children that are new to Pokemon or older children that have stopped playing Pokemon
-The Switch Pokemon has multiple advantages: a) The Switch player base is larger and older, b) The multi-million Pokemon GO craze has revitalized Pokemon among older gamers as well as the casual sphere, c) videogames in general are becoming more popular, in general, all the time

A)Switch is for all ages. Plenty of games, probably majority or half are for all ages.
B) GO is a mobile game, and does nothing to support the Kanto argument, and current games are completely different from the older games. So GO won't be attractive for that, and nor will a sequel or a remake.
C) How does that mean Kanto is the better choice? That has nothing to do with another Kanto game or a new region.

-FRLG was a remake released in a time when gaming, especially with handheld gaming being mostly geared towards kids (especially through the casual lens), and when gaming was less widespread, less technologically advanced.
-Pokemon Switch, if a Kanto game, would likely be a sequel or massive overhaul, released in a time where gaming is becoming a more and more popular form of entertainment.

So they should do a SEQUEL of a game whose story was last told in GENERATION III? Why? What is the point? Would it not be better to wait. Do a remake of RBYFRLG and then release the SEQUEL. Actually they should do a remake of the Kanto and Johto games because Johto is a sequel to Kanto. But it has been basically ages for both at this point. A sequel when we have the Sinnoh, Unova, Hoenn, Kalos, AND Alola freshest in our mind would not exactly make the game worth playing. And if people don't feel like dishing out over $30 to get a kanto game or feel like dealing with all the Gen 1 issues to replay for the story, then where is the want to play a sequel and dish out over $300 plus $60 for the game?

And again what does gaming being more popular have to do with Kanto?

4.
-FRLG released only 8 years after RG, and only 6 years after RB
-Pokemon Switch would be releasing 14 years after FRLG (but FRLG are not the game that likely matters for older gamers, who likely didn't play them since they came out so soon after the originals, and they would've been in that awkward age group where many "grow out" of Pokemon), 22 years after RG, and 20 years after RB.
-ORAS, for comparison, came out 12 years after RS. It's been 14 years since FRLG, the last Kanto game. FRLG is next in line, if we wanna talk about age - not to mention console. DP are still more relevant and more widely playable (i.e. they don't need a remake yet) than FRLG.

FRLG are actually pretty easy to get. Same with a GBA or SP. And it is all together cheaper than a switch and a switch game. And if you have a 3ds for only $10 you can get Kanto and now Johto! And considering we just recently got the Kanto games released on virtual console, kind of breaks that time argument.

4. Look at the Switch userbase. Look at Pokemon's and the Switch's demographics as a whole. Many people (not saying you in particular - this entire post is a response to several comments I've seen here) here have been speaking through the BMGf bubble. We, for the most part, are superfans. And not to put us on any kind of high horse, but we're gonna end up having stronger opinions and higher standards for what kind of Pokemon game we want to see. We've also seen the obvious Kanto pandering for years, and most of us would prefer something new again. But if you look outside of our community and fandom, no Switch Pokemon game would be more successful than a Kanto (+Johto?) revisit. Millions of people who were only fans in the late 90s came back because of Pokemon GO - the same people who bought RGBY in droves and made it such a cultural phenomenon then. Many of these people played Gen I, and maaaybe Gen II, and haven't seen/played anything since. These millions of people, coincidentally, are of the same age group as the Switch's biggest userbase demographic. Plus, whatever Pokemon Switch was likely in early development stages in 2016. You know what else happened in 2016, the same time that Gamefreak would have been deciding what game to make for Pokemon Switch? The GO craze. They watched millions of people flock to Pokemon GO and its original 151, more people than Pokemon has attracted in any generation since Gen I.

POKEMON GO IS A FREE MOBILE GAME.

It is entirely different than playing a console game. And it's appeal as others have pointed out is the real life capture of pokemon. A console game is and will not be anything like pokemon GO, at least not in the near future because it does not share the same features as a phone. And again the switch is targeted towards many different ages, and because of that target, starting off with a sequel is not going to be appealing to fans who started with the newer games and have not played the Kanto games.

For their first game they'll want to attract both people who have not played the series and people who have played the series. And a sequel of Kanto won't do that. A whole new region with a whole new adventure and story, and hopefully less pandering and references would be best. They should be doing what they did in Gen V where you didn't have the past. You had the future and the present. Something new. Not the same old places that only old old fans will get.

 

[Jukain]

This is getting nowhere. I guess it really is impossible for pokemon to pull the same feat, it just does not have the backing.

 

[dvor]

looks like masuda is getting really sick ,i think it's because the pressure of trying to get pokemon switch ready this year.. maybe 2019 is for the best.
he also had something like this because oras

View: https://twitter.com/Junichi_Masuda/status/954559075424980992

 

[TheMonster6893]

Hopefully he'll feel better soon. That said I'm sure he'll be fine. He doesn't get sick crazy often so them postponing an event appearance isn't too crazy. I don't think that means they'd delay the game release and f it was already planned for this year. He'll just take it easy for a few weeks and get better while the rest of the team continues on.

 

[Midorikawa]

I used google translate so I could be wrong but it translated that he got Norovirus which lasts 1-3 days. Basically the stomach flu. Which depending on once he's done with things like vomiting he could be out for about two more days due to fatigue and residue aches. So it's not that serious and shouldn't delay the game.

 

[DoctorWhy]

So they should do a SEQUEL of a game whose story was last told in GENERATION III? Why? What is the point? Would it not be better to wait. Do a remake of RBYFRLG and then release the SEQUEL.

Have you completely forgotten that every Gen 1 and 2 game was recently released on 3DS virtual console? Not to mention, GSC (being sequels to RGBY) stands on its own perfectly fine.

EDIT: I see you mentioned them later in your post, contradicting the above quoted statement.

And the comments regarding userbases and gaming population are purely to point out the fact that FRLG were released in a climate where they would never see huge success, and that their relative weakness has no relevance to a potential Kanto game on Switch.

he also had something like this because oras

Actually that was the original Ruby and Sapphire. He got sick and had horrible nightmares during Ruby and Sapphire's production because Pokemon's popularity was declining and it was his first time being the main director and producer.

 

[SUP3RN0VA]

I don't know how small a difference it is, and neither do you. What I can imagine is that the idea of revisiting Kanto - via sequels - has been in the back of Game Freak's minds for longer than the Switch has. So a lot of the conceptual planning may have been accounted for long ago, which is more than I can say for Spain/Italy/whatever.

They spent as much time on conceptual planning as on actual development for Black and White.

I never claimed otherwise. However, it is a reasonable conclusion, as a Kanto version on Switch is still going to have to be developed completely from scratch. I can't imagine concept designs for characters and Pokemon alone would save so much time that it suddenly makes it more realistic to be released this year without being much more rushed than Gen VIII, particularly when plenty of their characters would likely be redesigned and require newer concepts anyway.

 

[Jukain]

Actually, now I think it would be foolish to even suggest we can get the original fandom back. The question is if we can do something that would make a lot of people interested in Pokemon again. Unfortunately, for a lot of people, I must say that involves changing Pokemon from what it is. Significantly. Perhaps totally.

 

[RileyXY1]

FRLG was totally different though. It's hardly comparable.

1.
-The GBA was still a handheld console that primarily and largely appealed to children.
-The Switch is a hybrid console whose biggest demographic is young adults/adults, roughly in the 18-34 age range.

2.
-For FRLG, the kids that owned GBAs were likely one of two things: younger children that are new to Pokemon or older children that have stopped playing Pokemon
-The Switch Pokemon has multiple advantages: a) The Switch player base is larger and older, b) The multi-million Pokemon GO craze has revitalized Pokemon among older gamers as well as the casual sphere, c) videogames in general are becoming more popular, in general, all the time

3.
-FRLG was a remake released in a time when gaming, especially with handheld gaming being mostly geared towards kids (especially through the casual lens), and when gaming was less widespread, less technologically advanced.
-Pokemon Switch, if a Kanto game, would likely be a sequel or massive overhaul, released in a time where gaming is becoming a more and more popular form of entertainment.

4.
-FRLG released only 8 years after RG, and only 6 years after RB
-Pokemon Switch would be releasing 14 years after FRLG (but FRLG are not the game that likely matters for older gamers, who likely didn't play them since they came out so soon after the originals, and they would've been in that awkward age group where many "grow out" of Pokemon), 22 years after RG, and 20 years after RB.
-ORAS, for comparison, came out 12 years after RS. It's been 14 years since FRLG, the last Kanto game. FRLG is next in line, if we wanna talk about age - not to mention console. DP are still more relevant and more widely playable (i.e. they don't need a remake yet) than FRLG.

4. Look at the Switch userbase. Look at Pokemon's and the Switch's demographics as a whole. Many people (not saying you in particular - this entire post is a response to several comments I've seen here) here have been speaking through the BMGf bubble. We, for the most part, are superfans. And not to put us on any kind of high horse, but we're gonna end up having stronger opinions and higher standards for what kind of Pokemon game we want to see. We've also seen the obvious Kanto pandering for years, and most of us would prefer something new again. But if you look outside of our community and fandom, no Switch Pokemon game would be more successful than a Kanto (+Johto?) revisit. Millions of people who were only fans in the late 90s came back because of Pokemon GO - the same people who bought RGBY in droves and made it such a cultural phenomenon then. Many of these people played Gen I, and maaaybe Gen II, and haven't seen/played anything since. These millions of people, coincidentally, are of the same age group as the Switch's biggest userbase demographic. Plus, whatever Pokemon Switch was likely in early development stages in 2016. You know what else happened in 2016, the same time that Gamefreak would have been deciding what game to make for Pokemon Switch? The GO craze. They watched millions of people flock to Pokemon GO and its original 151, more people than Pokemon has attracted in any generation since Gen I.

We could be getting Gen 8, sure. But I see a slightly higher likelihood of a Kanto revisit - or, at the very least, that a Kanto revisit would be just as successful, if not more.



You don't know this. None of us do. Personally, I'm inclined to believe the opposite. Hell, I'd prefer a new region, but I also can't deny that Kanto would probably sell better, given the Switch and its userbase.

I don't know why you think that casual mobile phone players will buy a $300 console to play a game. A Kanto return will not attract new players the same way that a new gen would.

 

[Silktree]

I never claimed otherwise. However, it is a reasonable conclusion, as a Kanto version on Switch is still going to have to be developed completely from scratch. I can't imagine concept designs for characters and Pokemon alone would save so much time that it suddenly makes it more realistic to be released this year without being much more rushed than Gen VIII, particularly when plenty of their characters would likely be redesigned and require newer concepts anyway.

I don't think that any Pokemon game needs more than two years of development once the conceptual design is out of the way, and as said, it is easier to see how that stage (which usually takes a year) could have taken place around the 20th anniversary if Kanto sequels are involved.

And I am not talking just about Pokemon and characters, but also the map, story and major new features.

A Kanto return will not attract new players the same way that a new gen would.

That depends. ORAS sold around 85% as much as XY, and they were remakes (largely the same story) that didn't introduce new mechanics, locations or Pokemon.

 

[Arcalargo]

This is getting nowhere. I guess it really is impossible for pokemon to pull the same feat, it just does not have the backing.

So you are saying the games are bad and they haven't been released yet? Please relax, let's wait for the games first...

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don't think that any Pokemon game needs more than two years of development once the conceptual design is out of the way, and as said, it is easier to see how that stage (which usually takes a year) could have taken place around the 20th anniversary if Kanto sequels are involved.

And I am not talking just about Pokemon and characters, but also the map, story and major new features.

They're not going to be able to finish 3D character models and the map designs in 2 years, even for a previous region. They still have to redo the character models for the characters that didn't appear in SM and they would have to redo the overworld models and environments for the new engine. They would also have to redo the map designs to really make the region design feel modern, or else it's going to be as blocky as XY/ORAS and too flat and simplistic to feel like a modern region. These are not things they can accomplish that quickly, 3D models and non-tile based map designs aren't something you can just rush out in 2 years. You'd need a good 3-4 years to pull that off. Things get even more complicated when you start talking about expanding the size and scale of the overworld, which is a common request out of the Switch games in order for them to feel more console-like. Large, open areas take even longer to develop, then you're looking at 4+ years. So any time saved by referencing older designs is going to end up cancelled out by those factors.

 

[godiego]

They're not going to be able to finish 3D character models and the map designs in 2 years, even for a previous region. They still have to redo the character models for the characters that didn't appear in SM and they would have to redo the overworld models and environments for the new engine. They would also have to redo the map designs to really make the region design feel modern, or else it's going to be as blocky as XY/ORAS and too flat and simplistic to feel like a modern region. These are not things they can accomplish that quickly, 3D models and non-tile based map designs aren't something you can just rush out in 2 years. You'd need a good 3-4 years to pull that off. Things get even more complicated when you start talking about expanding the size and scale of the overworld, which is a common request out of the Switch games in order for them to feel more console-like. Large, open areas take even longer to develop, then you're looking at 4+ years. So any time saved by referencing older designs is going to end up cancelled out by those factors.

[citation needed]

 

[Silktree]

Realistically, the scale of the overworld isn't going to be a massive departure from Alola's just because some people are "demanding" it.

Masuda and Ohmori revealed as much during a recent video interview with Game Informer, with Masuda mentioning that while he totally gets why fans are anxious for the Pokemon Switch title, he also hopes fans are able to temper their excitement somewhat. In a followup response to Ohmori’s statement saying that Game Freak will “do [its] best to create a great game” to meet certain expectations, Masuda said, “Of course, it is very difficult to make the game, so I hope people don’t get their expectations up too high.”

3D models and non-tile based map designs aren't something you can just rush out in 2 years

It worked fine for SM (the first year wasn't actual development) and those graphics were downgraded from HD. Hopefully their output for the Switch will be more impressive, but that's why they hired more people with HD experience.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Realistically, the scale of the overworld isn't going to be a massive departure from Alola's just because some people are "demanding" it.

That's their own fault for remaining a small studio, insisting on short development cycles, and all of the other things that game developers have done to adapt to changes in the market. It's not the fans' fault that Game Freak is far behind the rest of the industry in terms of world design. A disclaimer telling people to temper their expectations isn't going to magically make this game more favorable when there's so many other games that can satisfy them. If they can't take the heat, they need to get out of the kitchen.

It worked fine for SM (the first year wasn't actual development) and those graphics were downgraded from HD. Hopefully their output for the Switch will be more impressive, but that's why they hired more people with HD experience.

Did it? SM's overworld ended up shallower and lacking in content than any region before it. In general, as the series has gone further into 3D level design, the map design has regressed further and further. They're not going to be able to do anything further than the originals overworld wise if they follow SM's development cycle, even with a handful of extra workers with HD experience. It takes a lot more than that for them to handle larger map designs in the same period of time.

 

[Jukain]

It's not the games, but rather the fandom itself that is preventing these games from being anything special. Frankly, nothing will satisfy any of us.

 

[Bolt Strike]

It's not the games, but rather the fandom itself that is preventing these games from being anything special. Frankly, nothing will satisfy any of us.

Well no game is going to be able to satisfy everyone, even BotW and Odyssey have their detractors. But where BotW and Odyssey succeed and Pokemon fails is that BotW and Odyssey satisfy a wide variety of gamers that enjoy different aspects of their formulas. Pokemon only satisfies certain demographics that like certain aspects of the gameplay while neglecting others. BotW's gameplay includes elements of exploration, puzzle solving, combat, stealth, and more. You can make of the game whatever you want it to be. Odyssey is similar, there's elements of platforming, exploration, puzzle solving, and combat and you can complete the game however you want collecting whatever Power Moons you want to progress. Pokemon though? Game Freak only lets you enjoy the game whatever way they want you to enjoy it. If you like a good storyline and battling, you're golden, but if you like exploration or doing sidequests? Tough shit, Game Freak doesn't care about those things so you're not allowed to enjoy those things in the game. And that's where the issue arises. It's ironic, because Game Freak loves to preach about how different people have different opinions and lifestyles in those games but the gameplay doesn't reflect that philosophy, quite the opposite really. If you're not a casual or a competitive battler, Game Freak gives you the middle finger.

At any rate, until Game Freak realizes this they're going to have a hard time finding the success that BotW and Odyssey did. Those games found ways to evolve their formulas in a way that attracted a wide variety of gamers and showed that they're capable of creating the type of large scale, open ended experiences where you can go wherever you want and do whatever you want that the console market strives for. Until Game Freak shows they can do the same, they're going to have a hard time adapting to console and lose fans over the kinds of issues that have arose throughout the 3DS era.