The Rocket trio's lack of screentime in Sun & Moon is honestly kind of appalling

[Silktree]

Besides, they've NEVER respected Team Rocket.

The S.S. Anne arc, radio drama, Mewtwo Returns, Legend of Thunder and the Johto arcs (Lugia and Lake of Rage) show otherwise. I would agree that the BW arcs were primarily about doing something different with TRio, and Giovanni's SM role is quite meager.

 

[SammyW27]

TG and TF were good.

That's what the "almost" was for.

The S.S. Anne arc, radio drama, Mewtwo Returns, Legend of Thunder and the Johto arcs (Lugia and Lake of Rage) show otherwise.

How? All of those had TR defeated easily/cheaply.

 

[Nicolas721]

I'm not buying the "TR is leaving" theory either. First of all, I don't even believe the "SM is testing waters for retiring Team Rocket" theory, because, while their absences are indeed too big sometimes, BW tried it in a more clear way, and we all know what happened. Also, they wouldn't get their own subplots and focus episodes if that were true. As I said before, the slice-of-life format doesn't need a battle climax or a climax at all to work, and they have other villains to compete with for attention.

Also, as users have said, there isn't enough time nor stuff going on that would keep their fans satisfied. The trio have a "legal" job, and their Bewear cart could become a Mega company if the writers felt like it, but...Does it fit with what we know of the characters? Does it really solve Meowth and Jessie's long for belonging and James' desire for freedom in a satisfying way? I personally imagined them as police force or superheroes of some kind. Also, if they were to stay with Bewear...When was it shown they like Alola that much? When was it shown she actually cares about their welfare and is...sane?

There's also the organization itself. Giovanni only has had a 2-minute scene to differentiate him from his XY self, so he isn't invested in the region or the evil teams that much. And Matori actually got more characterization and popularity, something that wouldn't be done if she were to be written out. In the Necrozma arc, TR is more of a side threat than the main villain, we haven't seen more grunts other than Gozu. It would be weird to see all the organization reappearing for a 4-episode climax that has just been "foreshadowed" with a 2-minute call.

The TRio isn't as vital to the series as before (and in my opinion never were even if I liked them) but writing them out isn't as easy as writing out a companion.

 

[Daenerys]

I'm not buying the TR departure theories, either. The same people who are blowing their lack of screen-time in SuMo out of proportion are the same people who said that BW would be the TRio's last saga, and look how that turned out. :/

 

[Dogasu]

I don’t think Brock’s an apt comparison at this stage since the TRio’s been around for almost the double of Brock’s tenure at this point.

You can say that now, but back in 2009 if you tried to say Takeshi was on his way out nobody would have taken you seriously. "He's untouchable," "he's never going away," "they already tried writing him out once, it didn't work," etc. The comparison works fine.

The same people who are blowing their lack of screen-time in SuMo out of proportion

They've been absent in over 40% of Sun & Moon. If that's not enough to even start questioning the idea of the trio leaving then what is? 50%? 60%? Is 70% the magic number needed for you to no longer consider this "blowing things out of proportion"?

 

[Hidden Mew]

You can say that now, but back in 2009 if you tried to say Takeshi was on his way out nobody would have taken you seriously. "He's untouchable," "he's never going away," "they already tried writing him out once, it didn't work," etc. The comparison works fine.

I know that most people expected that Brock would stick around, but I don't recall anyone saying that he's untouchable or that it would be impossible for him to be replaced. I remember thinking it wasn't too likely for them to get rid of Brock again, especially when he had been around for so long after the Orange Islands arc, but I don't think it was ever considered impossible for Brock to be replaced for good. The comparison still doesn't quite work for me and does seem like it's ignoring how different their roles are as well.

 

[ii kanji]

What really worried me from Sunday's episode were the following:

1. Aya Matsui wrote it but it was a pretty unremarkable episode in and of itself.
2. A plot was set up (Sakaki wants Kiteruguma) that was not resolved.

If this is setting up some minor drama for the end of the series so be it and I will be glad. If it was just a pointless filler, likewise I will be glad and say no more. I HOPE it is not the lead in for something bigger because I don't have confidence that they can do a TRio/Rocket wrap-up well with the time left (and also because I think sacking the TRio would be the worst ever move).

There are plenty of reasons to believe that Musashi, Kojiro and Nyasu are going nowhere (their popularity, unique role, merchandisability, I don't buy the increased % absence = trial for removal theory). I'm just rattled by the circumstances of the last episode.

 

[SammyW27]

They've been absent in over 40% of Sun & Moon. If that's not enough to even start questioning the idea of the trio leaving then what is? 50%? 60%? Is 70% the magic number needed for you to no longer consider this "blowing things out of proportion"?

55% or higher.
50% or less isn't worth getting paranoid over

If they can come back after being gone for 3 months straight in BW, them appearing irregularly here isn't cause for concern.
At the very least, I think they'll be demoted from main characters for reoccurring supporting ones (if they haven't been already). And hell, that's what they should've been from the start.

 

[TRNatalie]

(Warning: Essay incoming. Feel free to skip if you’d like.)

I’ve been thinking a lot about whether or not the TRio would leave ever since last year.

Not surprisingly, I think about Team Rocket a lot, most notably about their characters, their backstories, and, recently, how far they have come in SM.
For a long time, I’ve felt that the thing they’ve wanted most, aside from someone who truly cared for them, was somewhere they’d be accepted and would belong. Obviously they’ve found that in each other but they’ve never really found a place they could truly belong. Yes they had Team Rocket but prior to BW, most of the time they were poor, starving, constantly looked down upon, on the verge of being fired, really only having each other in a world determined to tear them down. BW may have relieved that but at the price of 93% of their personality and quirks that made them who they are. But in SM, both of those things are alleviated. Not only have their personalities been restored to their former glory, they’ve finally found a place that (mostly) accepts them. I’ve worked on quite a few fanfics during this timespan, some taking place in SM, some taking place in earlier sagas, and every time I work on them, I am slapped in the face with how much better their lives are in Alola. They have all of the food they want, they have a safe and warm place to live, they have two stable jobs in the food truck and in Battle Royale commentating not to mention all of the acting jobs Musashi could get, they’ve actually made some friends/allies(?) outside of Team Rocket/friends they’ve had from their pasts (like Acerola, Nanu(?), Kojiro has his fan friendship with Sauboh, Oranguru, there’s that Dohidoide that likes Kojiro, I headcanon Nyasu has a small friendship going on with Moani offscreen, and I headcanon that Hau’s their #1 customer offscreen (and subsequently, their biggest fan)), and they finally have a parent they can depend on to be there for them in Kiteruguma (They have a mother, at last they have a mother... and one that’s not going to ditch them on the side of the road (Nyasu), disappear on a mountaintop (Musashi), or emotionally neglect her son and look the other way when he is being assaulted by his fiancée (Kojiro)) even if it’s too much at times not to mention the several victories they’ve had this saga. Whenever I go back to watch SM 73 and it gets to the part where the TRio all do the Z-Move together, I get emotional both from how epic the moment is, how much growth is demonstrated in that scene (how Kojiro went from a runner with low self esteem who received little care, appreciation, or respect to the person who stands up to a giant Gangar to save his friends and gets them their Z-Ring, how Musashi went from a girl who had difficulty trusting anyone to the person who now wholeheartedly trusts Kojiro to come up with plans and encouraged Kojiro to go through with the Z-Move, how Nyasu went from a lonely stray outcasted for doing the impossible and teaching himself to become human to a cat who finally has a family and has accepted what he’s become to the point of helping others reach their white tomorrow (Orville the Pidgey, Nyaheat)) and… I can’t explain it but there’s something almost climatic about it.

But as I soon realize, the above is just my interpretation and leaves out some important details. For one, we know Kojiro’s always desired to hold onto his freedom and pretty much considers Team Rocket and a life with Musashi and Nyasu the only way he can have it. I’ve always interpreted that Kojiro subconsciously fears settling down would take his freedom away and I feel that if SM really is the end of the TRio’s story, there would have to be some episodes of Kojiro trying to confront his demons and adapt to this new lifestyle/an episode with him resolving his conflict with Rumika and his family, and as others have stated, even though I think SM will have more than 138 episodes, there’s too much that will be going on for that to happen in a way that’ll truly give him justice and if he stays in Team Rocket, so do Musashi and Nyasu. Adding onto that, we have the discussion the TRio has in SM 102 where they feared the possibility of being donut salesmen for the rest of their lives so yeah, still want to be in Team Rocket.
For another, Kiteruguma is way too overprotective and Musashi, Kojiro, Nyasu, and Sonansu clearly demonstrated in the Ula Ula arc that they don’t want to be cooped up in a hollow tree their entire lives. I was hoping SM 122 would explore their relationship more and address that criticism of Kiteruguma but alas, that didn’t happen.

And now we have the possibility of something involving the organization coming up. The way SM 122 resolved feels too underwhelming and open ended to not be set up for at least another attempt at the organization to capture Kiteruguma (maybe Mimikyu and Hidoide too if what Musashi and Kojiro said about them is to be believed)

If a Rocket arc does happen, I don’t think it will be the last we see of the TRio.

If they end up having to fight Matori, this will not be the first time they’ve fought their organization when their interests clashed with it. This has happened pretty much every time they’re in the same radius of Yamato and Kosaburo but the two that spring to mind the most when thinking about this episode are Pikachu Revolts and the Lugia arc in the third season of Johto. In Pikachu Revolts, when all of their Pokémon have been taken away and put under Drowzee’s control they only hesitate for a moment to team up with the brats and the police to get their Pokémon back and put their rivals behind bars. Then there’s the Lugia arc. They brought down an entire project of their beloved organization because they didn’t want Yamato and Kosaburo to get the credit for capturing the Lugia. As much as I love the final episode of this arc for how much *** they kick, I am shocked that they did not get in trouble for this. If they can get caught trying to steal a Legendary Pokémon from their own organization, battle their own teammates for it, and are responsible for said Legendary getting loose, and not get fired for that, I don’t think anything’s going to happen to them here.

That said, if Kiteruguma, Nuikoguma, Mimikyu, and Hidoide are taken away, I can see their view of Team Rocket flipping and them ending up betraying the organization.

That said, I don’t think the seiyuus and the TRio’s fans in the staff are ready to let them go.

In short, I’m not sure what’s going to happen but as long as the ending’s satisfying and the Rockets are happy, I’ll be okay (although honestly if the last drought was any indication, I’ll probably feel empty and not know what to do with the rest of my life without my favorite characters around.)

(Apologies for the length, this got longer than I expected and it looked sloppy with spoilers.)

55% or higher.
50% or less isn't worth getting paranoid over

I just did the math. Their appearance rate for this series is at 57% right now.

 

[Dogasu]

The comparison still doesn't quite work for me and does seem like it's ignoring how different their roles are as well.

Why do their roles being different matter? Both are just as easily replacable.

There are plenty of reasons to believe that Musashi, Kojiro and Nyasu are going nowhere (their popularity, merchandisability

It probably sounds like I think that this saga will absolutely be the trio's swan song but, as I've said time and time again, I think the chance is actually about 50/50 and it's mostly for the reasons quoted above. I don't think the trio is safe and can very easily see a world where they get the ax but, at the same time, I could see them lasting on the show another 20 years as well. All we can do right now is speculate.

55% or higher.
50% or less isn't worth getting paranoid over

So they have to miss literally half the series for you to even entertain the possibility that they'd maybe leave?

 

[Hidden Mew]

Why do their roles being different matter? Both are just as easily replacable.

It matters because they both serve different purposes. Team Rocket trio serving as the comedic villains of the series is a different, if not bigger, role than what Brock did during his run. He basically provided food for the group, knowledge on various Pokemon they come across or during battles and comedy with his own running gag. Team Rocket is comedic, but they're still used to create conflict for certain episodes or just to add some comedic scenes depending on what kind of appearance they have. Serving as the main villains for Ash and his friends to deal with is arguably a more active role than what Brock or any other secondary male traveling companion has done thus far. Dismissing how different their roles are just doesn't make sense to me. That isn't some minor detail. Their roles are basically their purpose behind the overall storyline of various series.

As for whether they're both just as easily replaceable, I disagree. At this point, replacing Team Rocket with another comedic trio would make them feel too much like an imitation rather than something new. Even the group of Team Skull grunts we've seen throughout SM come off more like Team Rocket's Alolan form more than anything else. While many of the secondary male characters have served similar roles to Brock, they have a bit more room to give them different personalities and goals so that they don't come off as just another version of Brock. They wouldn't have something like that for a new comedic villain group since they'd have to be specifically interested in Ash's Pikachu, or at least one of his other Pokemon, in order to target him frequently.

Besides all that, Brock was shown to be replaceable. Regardless of the circumstances leading to Brock being replaced the first time, it showed that he wasn't a permanent cast member. He did last quite a long time afterwards and that's why people thought he would stick around, but the idea that he could be gone for good at some point wasn't a huge stretch either. It was considered unlikely, but not impossible by any means. Replacing Team Rocket with another group of comedic villains at this point, on the other hand, would be harder to pull off in my opinion. There are new villain teams introduced with every new game, but replacing Team Rocket at this point when they've been around for so many years and are pretty iconic for the anime at least with a new evil team would be really tough to pull off.

It reminds me a lot of the problems of replacing Ash with the new playable lead whenever a new generation comes out. Admittedly, that is a bit of a different situation. Ash and Pikachu are the stars of each series after all, but like Ash, I think that the Team Rocket trio are too recognizable and marketable to be replaced and any characters that they could get to replace them would run the risk of being too similar to make the change worthwhile.

 

[Dogasu]

I think we’re just going to have to agree to disagree.

 

[Silktree]

If the bear is the focus of a potential arc, then I am not interested.

How? All of those had TR defeated easily/cheaply.

S.S. Anne: Okay, my memory was off there.
Birth of Mewtwo: Mewtwo may have escaped in the end, but Giovanni funded its creation and the radio drama explored multiple characters.
Mewtwo Returns: Giovanni nearly killed Mewtwo and threatened the other Pokemon.
Lugia arc: This was a three-parter where Team Rocket captured two Lugia as well as Ash and co. They were not "easily" defeated.
Lake of Rage: Lance (not Ash) made quick work of Tyson, but only after Red Gyarados had been captured and enraged.
Legend of Raikou: This duo were a pain in the butt for four trainers and Raikou, the latter being significantly hurt.

 

[ii kanji]

It probably sounds like I think that this saga will absolutely be the trio's swan song but, as I've said time and time again, I think the chance is actually about 50/50 and it's mostly for the reasons quoted above. I don't think the trio is safe and can very easily see a world where they get the ax but, at the same time, I could see them lasting on the show another 20 years as well. All we can do right now is speculate.

I'm with you now. My feelings are essentially the same. @TRNatalie has neatly exposed why predicting their fates based on what we see in the anime is nigh-on impossible - their character trajectories and role are highly subjective and easily manipulated by the writers. Especially after all that bluster about their send-off in BW, I believe both that:

1. It could happen.
2. I should not to try to foresee it until it actually happens, lest my blood pressure rises sky high, bursts an aneurysm and causes my untimely death.

 

[MarshiyanMisutaa]

According to my count, they appeared 69 episodes out of 123, not counting the Kojiro-only appearance, which means they appeared in 56 percent of SM episodes. But many of their appearances were short and lasted a single scene, so I think we can say that they were absent for most of SM. About the replaceability of TR, I think it's just another case of "it didn't happen before, so it won't happen." In my book no one is totally irreplaceable, not even Satoshi and the Pikachu.

 

[SammyW27]

So they have to miss literally half the series for you to even entertain the possibility that they'd maybe leave?

Of course.

S.S. Anne: Okay, my memory was off there.

The grunts showed up late, then got their asses handed to them on a platter within minutes

Mewtwo Returns: Giovanni nearly killed Mewtwo and threatened the other Pokemon.

And then grunts were knocked out by sleep powder, Domino was felled by a slippery floor, and Mewtwo pressed the Reset Button of the Gods (again)

Lugia arc: This was a three-parter where Team Rocket captured two Lugia as well as Ash and co. They were not "easily" defeated.

The grunts were ALL defeated with one move, and Lugia escaped because the TRio and Butch & Cassidy stupidly freed it.

Lake of Rage: Lance (not Ash) made quick work of Tyson, but only after Red Gyarados had been captured and enraged.

Exactly

Legend of Raikou: This duo were a pain in the butt for four trainers and Raikou, the latter being significantly hurt.

And they kept giving up & running away as soon as things got bad...

 

[Cinnabar]

I feel like team rocket is constantly showing up in the early episodes (which is where I am currently) as the first season for example, whereas in the Sun & Moon S20-21 are not as common, so you definitely have a point.

Please take note that I have not watched season 22 yet, and I originally began watching pokemon from season 20.

 

[SinnohBoi]

Team Rocket are a mainstay. They're not leaving at all, because they're so easily worked with. You can have them appear in every episode, or very few episodes at all. However, you don't have to do much more than that. I also don't think the showrunners have it in them to take them out of the show as well, because you don't just remove three of the most popular characters in a show that is heavily declining. Brock left in a different point of the series. Sinnoh was huge in japan and there was no fear of the show spiriling down. There is no such luxury anymore and I wouldn't be surprised if Brock came back as well.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Team Rocket are a mainstay. They're not leaving at all, because they're so easily worked with. You can have them appear in every episode, or very few episodes at all. However, you don't have to do much more than that. I also don't think the showrunners have it in them to take them out of the show as well, because you don't just remove three of the most popular characters in a show that is heavily declining. Brock left in a different point of the series. Sinnoh was huge in japan and there was no fear of the show spiriling down. There is no such luxury anymore and I wouldn't be surprised if Brock came back as well.

I wouldn't say that the series is heavily declining or spiraling down. The show seems to be doing well enough in Japan from what I can tell. I don't think that they'd replace Team Rocket either. It's just such a huge risk and I don't think that they'd take it either. I don't see the point of bringing Brock back. I don't think that the SM featuring Misty and Brock had drastically better ratings than the rest of the series, so I don't see how Brock coming back would instantly make the series more popular or boost ratings.

 

[Galactic_V]

Idk, I really wish that there'd be a big final showdown against the Rockets before Trio leaves. Like they succeed in finally stealing Pikachu and join forces with Satoshi and whoever are his companions to take down Sakaki and the rest of the organization, to then part ways in friendly terms with the protagonists.

That's why I'd rather for SM to not be their final season, as it seems like there's no time for any big Rocket arc anymore.