The Rocket trio's lack of screentime in Sun & Moon is honestly kind of appalling

[ii kanji]

ii kanji's Unnecessary Optimism Post #278103848

Tomorrow we'll be saying a sad goodbye to the TRio in SM. It will be very sad because Mimikyu, Hidoide and the bears have made themselves truly memorable despite the appalling lack of screen time given to them.

But at least our core four are coming back for PM! A couple of things are promising for the Rockets in the new anime series.

First, the fact that their confirmation/reveal was treated as an important news item about the new series. Also, that they have appeared in the first animated preview. I believe that this is the very first time that either of these things have happened for the TRio before a new series.

Secondly, the seiyuus have done a long-ass interview about the end of SM & their hopes for PM. This is important because the seiyuus never did interviews like this. So much so that the spate of interviews featuring them around the Musashi vs Kojiro League battle caused mini-meltdowns for those within the TRio fan community who read too much into stuff (aka. me) that they might be leaving.

There seem to be two versions of this interview (1 and 2, not to mention the quotes from these that were featured in the Twitter and translated by Dogasu and Adamant), with largely overlapping information. The key stuff that comes from this is:

• They will be chasing Pikachu around the world.
• They have a new mecha which they have had to pay for themselves.
• We've been told to look out for their motto.
• The seiyuus would like to use the looser story format (i.e. not so much tied to any game's storyline) to tell different kinds of stories. In particular, to explore the TRio's backstories in more detail. Hayashibara specifically mentions Nyasu learning to speak, Musashi's nursing training, Musashi and Kojiro's time in the bike gang and the story behind the white uniforms.
• For what it's worth, they'd like to visit a bunch of old Pokemon (Matadogas, Chirean and Dokucale mentioned in particular, as well as non-Rocket mons the seiyuu voiced... and Nokocchi.)
• (In case anyone had any doubt that they might be BW level lobotomised again, they jokingly talk about that time and how they've changed back. They also say that no matter what the setting or context, the TRio always stay the same.)
• Apparently the staff sometimes say they can't rely on the Rockets too much, but the seiyuu don't see why not Miki thinks they derive more enjoyment from being there than they give the rest of us do! They want to know what we fans would like to see from them, and encourage us to continue supporting them.
• (Inuyama finishes with a line about how they are still early in the dubbing process which I don't understand. Is anyone (@Dogasu) able to shed any light?: アフレコはまだ本当に序盤ですけど、いまのところ出番が少なくて……。)

 

[ehh123]

• Apparently the staff sometimes say they can't rely on the Rockets too much, but the seiyuu don't see why not

Hey, I love Team Rocket but using them as a crutch to resolve a Pokemon of the Week story at the last minute is not a good use of those characters, so I can understand the writers not wanting to use them for every single episode.

 

[kantoskies]

I also think the heightened focus on them in promotional materials is a good sign they won't be subjected to Sun&Moon-level absences. I don't think we even saw them in animated form until the next-week preview for SM003! My big hopes for them this series are that we do see flashbacks of them, and the backstory of the white uniforms is something that could be amazing! With the Pikachu backstory in SS001 (something I hope the Rocket trio could cameo in) anything is possible.

Hey, I love Team Rocket but using them as a crutch to resolve a Pokemon of the Week story at the last minute is not a good use of those characters, so I can understand the writers not wanting to use them for every single episode.

To be fair a lot of the "Pokemon of the Week" episodes that don't have the Rocket trio in them tend to be awfully boring so they're less a crutch and more a life preserver.

 

[Kurolegacy]

I for one have enjoyed this change since BW. TRio are basically joke villains and thus it kinda becomes monotonous having them always there. So if the writers can’t make them an actual threat by having them become competent trainers and we’re gonna be stuck with them until the day the sun burns out, the least they can do is limit their appearances and force the writers to come up with conflicts for the episodes or otherwise let them play out with their own story.

 

[SonansuMan]

Almost scary to think we could end up with an incarnation of TRio better than SM's, but I am super excited at the possibility of seeing Chimecho again though! Poor thing got shafted way too soon.

SM TRio were the best out of any of the series for me because this felt like the first time since OG that they were allowed to have more depth beyond being jobbers to make rivals/main characters look stronger. Having episodes like SM058/SM073 showed how capable of they were of holding down episodes without involvement from most of the main cast while being able to meaningfully develop them as characters. Even in their smaller appearances like SM021 or SM014 you have character traits from either Jessie or Meowth that fleshed them out and made them feel so much more real than compared to some of the forgettable moments from past seasons. I hope this carries on to the next series.

The only thing I hope they do better is handling of appearances because some of the mons like Stufful or Mimikyu I feel weren't really fleshed out enough besides really one note traits that even then never really gave away what their personalities were. Hopefully they'll get blessings if they return again!

 

[Insanish Danish]

Yeah, SM is easily the most I've enjoyed Team Rocket in a really long time (possibly since the original series, honestly) but I'm cautiously optimistic for their portrayal in the new series and hope they show up more often - I don't mind them not appearing in every episode, but in SM they were absent way too much.

(And seriously, please don't let this be the last time we see Bewear and Stufful - I ADORE them and their dynamic with the TRio is one of my favorite dynamics the show's ever had)

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Probably the unpopular opinion but, I still don't see what is so good about their SM characterization. I really like their SM episodes and focus they got there too, but it doesn't justify their absence from the show, in my opinion. Weird claims like "they had a stable job (not a new thing at all) and home (a side effect of their lack of traveling) for the first time" also make me question those appraisals SM got. Their lack of reaction and uncaring attitude to Satoshi and Pikachu's league victory (victories?) too is one of the most disappointing things I've ever seen in this show.

 

[Emelie]

• The seiyuus would like to use the looser story format (i.e. not so much tied to any game's storyline) to tell different kinds of stories. In particular, to explore the TRio's backstories in more detail. Hayashibara specifically mentions Nyasu learning to speak, Musashi's nursing training, Musashi and Kojiro's time in the bike gang and the story behind the white uniforms)

I hope they won't retcon Musashi's backstory from the CD drama in the new series. Now would be the perfect moment to animate it when Gou is chasing after Mew and they have expressed interest in expanding older characters' backstories.

I also hope they won't retcon the episode "Team Rocket: Origin of Love and Youth" just because it kind of contradicts the bike gang backstory. I think this episode is arguably the most important Team Rocket episode.

It would be fun to learn more about what they were doing in the bike gang though. I think the episode would have been much more memorable if it was a flashback episode instead of a filler.

 

[ii kanji]

I hope they won't retcon Musashi's backstory from the CD drama in the new series. Now would be the perfect moment to animate it when Gou is chasing after Mew and they have expressed interest in expanding older characters' backstories.

Every opportunity is the perfect moment. I was really hoping they'd bother with it for the Mewtwo movie, but never mind, hopefully this time it'll happen

I also hope they won't retcon the episode "Team Rocket: Origin of Love and Youth" just because it kind of contradicts the bike gang backstory. I think this episode is arguably the most important Team Rocket episode.

I don't think they would retcon that episode (which has been referenced at least 3 times since it aired in the main series), and I also don't believe that that episode necessarily contradicts the bike gang/seminary backstories Shudo slipped in during OS. What is Musashi and Kojiro parted on less than good terms after the bike gang? Their first interaction in the Hoso is super weird as a 'meeting someone for the very first time' scene.

Probably the unpopular opinion but, I still don't see what is so good about their SM characterization. I really like their SM episodes and focus they got there too, but it doesn't justify their absence from the show, in my opinion. Weird claims like "they had a stable job (not a new thing at all) and home (a side effect of their lack of traveling) for the first time" also make me question those appraisals SM got. Their lack of reaction and uncaring attitude to Satoshi and Pikachu's league victory (victories?) too is one of the most disappointing things I've ever seen in this show.

What made their SM characterisation great was nothing to do with the job or the bear den. I was also constantly disappointed by the degree of their absence. However, for the first time since at least DP the TRio had individual personalities and interesting relationship dynamics (XY tried but it felt very cardboard a lot of the time). For me the benchmark of a good series for them is one in which Kojiro's personality is memorable - it's easy to write Musashi and easier to write Nyasu, but if the writers are not bothered then Kojiro can come across simply as their stooge. This time I really believed in him being his own person.

I would have loved them to be more invested in Satoshi's victory too, remember how excited they were during the Kalos League? But at the same time, it kind of fits with the fact that they've barely interacted with him since coming to Alola. When was the last time they tried to get Pikachu even? I actually can't remember.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I would have loved them to be more invested in Satoshi's victory too, remember how excited they were during the Kalos League? But at the same time, it kind of fits with the fact that they've barely interacted with him since coming to Alola. When was the last time they tried to get Pikachu even? I actually can't remember.

I'm not sure they even care about that anymore, they just leave Satoshi behind Alola right now. Still, I think it's very out of character that they didn't care at all about Satoshi and Pikachu's league victory, compared to the previous leagues.

 

[Emelie]

Still, I think it's very out of character that they didn't care at all about Satoshi and Pikachu's league victory, compared to the previous leagues.

Well, it seemed like Musashi really wanted to win the league herself this time judging by how excited she was when she fought Koujiro. So if we take this into consideration it makes sense that she wouldn't cheer for Satoshi. In some episodes it almost felt like Satoshi respected Musashi as a rival because of Mimikyu's strength.

I wish Mimikyu's and Pikachu's final battle had taken place at the league instead. It would have been perfect since the battles were just 1 vs 1 and would have given Mimikyu one final last hurrah.

Maybe Mimikyu could even have recieved some character development and have Pikachu and Mimikyu resolve their conflict. Then it could have decided to stay with Bewear in Alola (since she took care of it when it was hurt after the battle with Pikachu) and have a heartfelt goodbye with Musashi.

 

[Daenerys]

At least TRio are staying in the new series despite all the negativity and false predictions of their theoretical departure after the SuMo saga. It still amazes me how people have been predicting their demise since as far back as the BW saga; it's almost as repetitive as the 'Ash might be replaced in the next saga!' theories.

 

[BigDocFan]

Given that they did very little during the Alola League, plotting some big plan that was easily stopped by Guzzlord, I do feel what screen time they had during the league was pointless as it was cheap filler

 

[Poke Trey]

As much as I like TR, I do mostly appreciate that they weren't in every episode. Allowing certain episodes to flow better and having the conflict be on something or someone else rather on those same 3 every week.

 

[WatcherMark]

One of the few things Best Wishes did right was realising Team Rocket don't need to be in every episode. I think by the end of Diamond and Pearl, everyone was sick of having an intense Gym Battle interrupted for a brief TR scene just so they could usually get their obligatory blast off.

 

[Jez]

• (In case anyone had any doubt that they might be BW level lobotomised again, they jokingly talk about that time and how they've changed back. They also say that no matter what the setting or context, the TRio always stay the same.)

Because of the opening and the preview of episode 3 I am still afraid that the trio starts to behave hyper seriously like in BW, would it be possible to know what the seiyus said exactly when they promised that they would not return to this behavior? I would die for sure if I had to see them very evil again, even for a single episode, I need so much to be comforted. It is still a possibility they are very very serious in the new serie?

 

[RetroPokeFan]

Because of the opening and the preview of episode 3 I am still afraid that the trio starts to behave hyper seriously like in BW, would it be possible to know what the seiyus said exactly when they promised that they would not return to this behavior? I would die for sure if I had to see them very evil again, even for a single episode, I need so much to be comforted. It is still a possibility they are very very serious in the new serie?

It'll probably just be them being told what to do by Giovanni. If they appear later on in the episode maybe that's when the comedic personality starts to show.

 

[Rocket Messiah]

I dont know, I think they will be like Sun and Moon maybe a litle bit more competent.

I dont want them to blast off tho

 

[Henry Suarez]

Welp, it looks like they will appear less in PM2019 than in SM, at least that's my take from what I read on Dogasu's website.

 

[Johtohfiller]

How would the staff go about gauging fan demand for more Rocket appearances? Like with BW, where was the outcry mostly coming from? Messageboards? Twitter? I'd like to pitch in a request myself but I don't know how to say much more than "Rocket Dan ga daisuki".