Elieson
Actually a Parent! WA0H!
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Ask Makaze
He did one for SF already
He did one for SF already
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The Round Table
- Thread starter Maniacal Engineer
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Qing'e
Hermit Who Passes Through Walls
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On that note, and since some people seem to have missed it, Makaze did offer to make some things for the site during the EiMM (client-side, mainly), but his request is still in "your offer is noted" hell, and he's lost interest, so I would say chances of anything like that succeeding are in the area of 0%.
Soulmaster
Notification King 1111
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So this is something that has been a bit at the back of my mind for a while but now it took a forefront and I feel like posting something. Actually I was advised by Zexy to post after we talked a little bit, but same difference.
Said something is in reference to the queue system. I think that changes need to be made to it. Right now we allows for 3 game running and 2 in signups. Currently, we have 1 and 1(not counting Chaos due to special nature). Subtle prod at people to actually post games faster here but that's a separate issue.
I think that the system needs a bit of restructuring. There are 2 ways to go about this in my mind.
1) Have a single number of games for both signups and running. So like say we can have 4 games at any 1 time. These games might all be signups at one point or they might all be running. They should be staggered enough that the 2/2 should stay mostly in place. This is the way the last queue system here worked.
2) Up the number of games allowed to do signups at a time. The number of signups in my opinion should be higher than the number of played games. A sign-up can stay in sign-up phase for as long as needed. I think I saw the Mario forums do this way back forever ago.
This is not the most eloquent way of saying what I'm thinking. But hopefully it gets the point across. Overall just think things could be done a bit more efficiently. Also I know a fair number of points are a time specific one, this is just a prime example.
Said something is in reference to the queue system. I think that changes need to be made to it. Right now we allows for 3 game running and 2 in signups. Currently, we have 1 and 1(not counting Chaos due to special nature). Subtle prod at people to actually post games faster here but that's a separate issue.
I think that the system needs a bit of restructuring. There are 2 ways to go about this in my mind.
1) Have a single number of games for both signups and running. So like say we can have 4 games at any 1 time. These games might all be signups at one point or they might all be running. They should be staggered enough that the 2/2 should stay mostly in place. This is the way the last queue system here worked.
2) Up the number of games allowed to do signups at a time. The number of signups in my opinion should be higher than the number of played games. A sign-up can stay in sign-up phase for as long as needed. I think I saw the Mario forums do this way back forever ago.
This is not the most eloquent way of saying what I'm thinking. But hopefully it gets the point across. Overall just think things could be done a bit more efficiently. Also I know a fair number of points are a time specific one, this is just a prime example.
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Right now the 20 day time limit on the queue is my only complaint, as sure it hogs spots, but given my game and kakashi's game had trouble filling up and were pushing it. (Mine still is as of writing)
Elieson
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IMO 20 days is just barely enough, given the remarkable activity this site has proven to have in the past 1/2 year that I've been here (fuck has it been that long?)
TheCapsFan
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Announcement:
Due to some feedback we've received, we're making a slight change to the responsibilities of the Moderator on Duty. In addition to overseeing the game and being the primary responder to all in-game incidents, the MoD will also now be acting as a back-up host. In the event that the host, and co-host if applicable, is unavailable to update the thread in a timely manner, the MoD will have the power to do so. This will allow games to continue running smoothly and thus not cause delays to the queue or inconvenience the players.
However, on the flip side, this means that the MoD needs to be a completely informed observer for the game, so that he can post accurate results for phase changes, should that become necessary.
We hope that this will be a rarely used power, but we do feel that it is necessary in order to maintain an efficient, and timely, update schedule in the event of extenuating circumstances.
Due to some feedback we've received, we're making a slight change to the responsibilities of the Moderator on Duty. In addition to overseeing the game and being the primary responder to all in-game incidents, the MoD will also now be acting as a back-up host. In the event that the host, and co-host if applicable, is unavailable to update the thread in a timely manner, the MoD will have the power to do so. This will allow games to continue running smoothly and thus not cause delays to the queue or inconvenience the players.
However, on the flip side, this means that the MoD needs to be a completely informed observer for the game, so that he can post accurate results for phase changes, should that become necessary.
We hope that this will be a rarely used power, but we do feel that it is necessary in order to maintain an efficient, and timely, update schedule in the event of extenuating circumstances.
Elieson
Actually a Parent! WA0H!
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I strongly support the above PSA.
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same.
EeveelutionLover
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I support this announcement. Glad to have it implemented.
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I agree too. Great idea 
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So this has been somewhat discussed in the TWR Discord chat and now it's going to the table.
As discussed by @Hellcrow and @HumanDawn, there is a huge backlog of games that are ready in the queue. However, the wait to get the game out of the queue and ready for playing could take months. And on top of that, short games may have to wait months. I think perhaps we should create a tiered queue system for games for TWR.
I'm thinking amongst the lines like this:
Quick/Small Game System
Mafia games that have 24 hour phases and/or with less 24 hour phases
Normal Games/u]
Mafia games that don't fit the above definition
Non-Mafia based games
Self-explanatory
Hopefully this will loosen up the queue a little bit and increase the diversity of Mafia games that are happening in TWR. The number of types of games can be based on the activity of this section.
Thoughts on this idea?
As discussed by @Hellcrow and @HumanDawn, there is a huge backlog of games that are ready in the queue. However, the wait to get the game out of the queue and ready for playing could take months. And on top of that, short games may have to wait months. I think perhaps we should create a tiered queue system for games for TWR.
I'm thinking amongst the lines like this:
Quick/Small Game System
Mafia games that have 24 hour phases and/or with less 24 hour phases
Normal Games/u]
Mafia games that don't fit the above definition
Non-Mafia based games
Self-explanatory
Hopefully this will loosen up the queue a little bit and increase the diversity of Mafia games that are happening in TWR. The number of types of games can be based on the activity of this section.
Thoughts on this idea?
PaulTheProtist
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Mafia games with 24h phases are nonexistent here and NM games are rather rare. Thus, I don't really see that idea working.
TheCapsFan
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TBH I would be fine with the small/large games idea, and just bunch in the Non-Mafia games with the rest of them. This is what PokeCommunity does, and I think it works quite well, except for the fact that they have no conceptual queue, so the queues are crazy long... @jdthebud would you agree?
The other thing is that PC's queue seems to be based on number of players and not necessarily phase change times.
There's also the issue of games like Chaos or EiMM that could have any number of players.
The other thing is that PC's queue seems to be based on number of players and not necessarily phase change times.
There's also the issue of games like Chaos or EiMM that could have any number of players.
HumanDawn
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Just make it similar to the old and better system The War Room had before. Instead of 6 games, 2 being small (up to 13), 2 being medium (up to 20), 2 being large (over 20 but the most it was, was 30 IIRC), just cut it to 3 (or 4, with 2 small games), but look at where leniency can be taken if the user base is growing and see which changes can be made. The queue would be tiered instead of waiting in one large line that's just going to be larger - a host should not have to put up a game on the queue and potentially wait up to 4 months. If that does not tell you how flawed the system is then I don't know what does - they should wait two months at most, which should only be a rare occurrence.
The community back then also had "reserves" when there was a game in the queue. People would contact the host and ask them to reserve a spot; this would show interest in the game and help fill the sign-ups. If the "Sign-Ups should only last two weeks" rule is still around, then it should be enforced with the hosts being appropriately moderated.
Special occasion games should not be part of the 3 active games rules and sign-ups, they should be separate. They've shown that they can be disruptive with Chaos Mafia 2 taking over a month to start. During that time, the smaller games could have started sign-ups, filled the sign-ups up, started, and even ended, helping to thin out the queue. Back in 2012 and before, 24 hour Day Phases were the norm to get the queue going faster. 48 hour Day Phases would only be for Day 1 at most with the rest of the Day Phases being 24 hours to help games go faster. I was up and ready to start playing a Mafia game on the first week of June, but because of the flaws of the system, it took me over a month to start playing one game. This kind of flaw does not welcome new The War Room players well. If I was a new player looking to play in a new forum, I'd have likely lost interest and forgot that I even joined, thus not even count because I found other games to play. I only stuck around due to forum loyalty. Had I noticed how screwed this new system was, I would have said this much earlier, but when I joined Chaos Mafia 2, I only peeked in and out to see if the game would start, not the state of how things were run in The War Room. I only assumed that no other games were posted BECAUSE nobody was interested in POSTING a game, not because they WEREN'T allowed to! If the smaller games in the queue were allowed to be posted, they would have most likely been filled, and I'd have played a game instead of waiting over a month to play it. So not only is this system making hosts take ages to post a game, but if no game is going on because of a large game taking a sign-up spot that a small game could have had that could have been filled faster, new players are also taking ages to play games!!
While I can see why somebody would think to put the system in place - it is not efficient and its gaping holes shows that it was not well thought out. I advise that a page be taken from the old system's book.
Having said all that, a queue system, even with how controlled it makes the games, is still not a good idea. We've done THREE YEARS with the queue removed and there were NO COMPLAINTS about how unfair it was. People posted games whenever they liked and felt no pressure, no 4 month wait, they had games in mind, maturely thought when was the best to post them, and posted them. I've been part of TWR skype chats and have read plenty of posts in threads and NOBODY complained in those three years the queue was in place that somebody was taking their place and that the queue should be put back.
Read this thread that decided to eliminate the old queue system from three years ago:
Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap
It's only destined to harm The War Room if it keeps up. Changes need to be made. More serious action needs to be taken.
Thank you for your time.
The community back then also had "reserves" when there was a game in the queue. People would contact the host and ask them to reserve a spot; this would show interest in the game and help fill the sign-ups. If the "Sign-Ups should only last two weeks" rule is still around, then it should be enforced with the hosts being appropriately moderated.
Special occasion games should not be part of the 3 active games rules and sign-ups, they should be separate. They've shown that they can be disruptive with Chaos Mafia 2 taking over a month to start. During that time, the smaller games could have started sign-ups, filled the sign-ups up, started, and even ended, helping to thin out the queue. Back in 2012 and before, 24 hour Day Phases were the norm to get the queue going faster. 48 hour Day Phases would only be for Day 1 at most with the rest of the Day Phases being 24 hours to help games go faster. I was up and ready to start playing a Mafia game on the first week of June, but because of the flaws of the system, it took me over a month to start playing one game. This kind of flaw does not welcome new The War Room players well. If I was a new player looking to play in a new forum, I'd have likely lost interest and forgot that I even joined, thus not even count because I found other games to play. I only stuck around due to forum loyalty. Had I noticed how screwed this new system was, I would have said this much earlier, but when I joined Chaos Mafia 2, I only peeked in and out to see if the game would start, not the state of how things were run in The War Room. I only assumed that no other games were posted BECAUSE nobody was interested in POSTING a game, not because they WEREN'T allowed to! If the smaller games in the queue were allowed to be posted, they would have most likely been filled, and I'd have played a game instead of waiting over a month to play it. So not only is this system making hosts take ages to post a game, but if no game is going on because of a large game taking a sign-up spot that a small game could have had that could have been filled faster, new players are also taking ages to play games!!
While I can see why somebody would think to put the system in place - it is not efficient and its gaping holes shows that it was not well thought out. I advise that a page be taken from the old system's book.
Having said all that, a queue system, even with how controlled it makes the games, is still not a good idea. We've done THREE YEARS with the queue removed and there were NO COMPLAINTS about how unfair it was. People posted games whenever they liked and felt no pressure, no 4 month wait, they had games in mind, maturely thought when was the best to post them, and posted them. I've been part of TWR skype chats and have read plenty of posts in threads and NOBODY complained in those three years the queue was in place that somebody was taking their place and that the queue should be put back.
Read this thread that decided to eliminate the old queue system from three years ago:
Regarding the Hosting Queue & Game Cap
It's only destined to harm The War Room if it keeps up. Changes need to be made. More serious action needs to be taken.
Thank you for your time.
Last edited:
HumanDawn
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Correction: Apparently Sign-Ups have at most 20 days, which is ridiculous in a system like this. Imagine having to wait every medium-large game that does not fill up to take 20 days in sign-ups, with only TWO available at once! Chaos Mafia 2 has also another problematic aspect to it; While it's still in sign-ups, it had no roles made, with the roles being made just after everyone signed up! Okay, there probably was some thinking going on in the roles already, but it still took time.
The Conceptual Queue is unbelievable and ridiculous. "The Conceptual Queue is for games that are still in development." Yet, I am supposed to believe that Zexy has 19 games in development?? What? I mean, if he is already working on all of them and plans to host them all, then wOW, but if he isn't then what is the point of point of putting them up in the queue? Can't they all just be written on some Notepad on the computer instead of clogging the queue to make the more serious ones more visible? I also find little point in this queue's existence. It is very easy to just say you have your game figured out and get it to the queue - there's plenty of time till the game starts. If moderators ask for roles, all that needs to be done is fake some or make some real ones if that's enough and then change them overtime to how you really want them to be to make them less rushed.
The queue as it is, is also very corrupt:
There are hosts with multiple spots already taken. This is only telling me one thing: That if I truly care about hosting games on this site; that I can and should post my other game ideas to the queue already because it may be too late and that I would never get the opportunity. What's stopping me from just saying that my Bravely Second Mafia is finished just in case I really want to host it later on? This queue also encourages to look for websites with forums that have more availability if I want a game to be posted sooner. Special Occasion Games can also delay somebody from hosting their game even further, and are corrupt. What makes Chaos Mafia 2 a Special Occasion Game when say, compared to TWR Season 2016 Mafia? (Cool sounding game though!) Why can't Sockpuppet Mafia and Mystery Mafia just be normal games? What's the special occasion for Sockpuppet Mafia? What does Mystery Mafia have to do with Pokemon Sun/Moon, or Pokemon itself?
There's just so many problems I can't believe they haven't been tackled yet...
The Conceptual Queue is unbelievable and ridiculous. "The Conceptual Queue is for games that are still in development." Yet, I am supposed to believe that Zexy has 19 games in development?? What? I mean, if he is already working on all of them and plans to host them all, then wOW, but if he isn't then what is the point of point of putting them up in the queue? Can't they all just be written on some Notepad on the computer instead of clogging the queue to make the more serious ones more visible? I also find little point in this queue's existence. It is very easy to just say you have your game figured out and get it to the queue - there's plenty of time till the game starts. If moderators ask for roles, all that needs to be done is fake some or make some real ones if that's enough and then change them overtime to how you really want them to be to make them less rushed.
The queue as it is, is also very corrupt:
Signups
- Gameshow Mafia [16p] (Hosted by @Jsach; and @leetic; ) [Moderator on Duty: leetic]
- War of the Elements 3.0 [NM] [18p] (Hosted by @Soulmaster )
Games Queue
- I Can't Believe It's Not War Room Mafia Mafia [10p] (Hosted by @Elieson )
- Murder, She Wrote 4: Everyone Is Scum Edition [8p] (Hosted by @Mighty Eevee; and @Zexy; )
- Professor Layton Mafia [9p] (Hosted by @Doctor Floptopus; )
- Camp Half-Blood [15p] (Hosted by @Soaringdylan; )
- The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring Mafia (Hosted by @TheCapsFan )
- Talk Like a Pirate Mafia [12p] (Hosted by @leetic)
- In-Thread Attacks Mafia [??p] (Hosted by @Zexy; )
- Super Smash Bros. Mafia [17p] (Hosted by @Elementar)
- TvTropes Mafia [10p] (Hosted by @returnofMCH and @Zexy )
- Food Connoisseur Mafia [20p] (Hosted by @Life)
- DanganRonpa 3: The End of Hope's Speak Academy Mafia [13p] (Hosted by @HumanDawn )
Special Occasion Games
- TWR Season 2016 Mafia [16p] (Hosted by @TheCapsFan; and @Zexy; ) [signups scheduled for August 1st]
- Sockpuppet Mafia 2016 [??p] [scheduled for October]
- Mystery Mafia* [16p] (Hosted by @TheCapsFan; and @Mighty Eevee; ) [scheduled for November 18 (Pokemon Sun/Moon release)]
- War of the Elements 3.0 [NM] [18p] (Hosted by @Soulmaster )
Games Queue
- I Can't Believe It's Not War Room Mafia Mafia [10p] (Hosted by @Elieson )
- Murder, She Wrote 4: Everyone Is Scum Edition [8p] (Hosted by @Mighty Eevee; and @Zexy; )
- Professor Layton Mafia [9p] (Hosted by @Doctor Floptopus; )
- Camp Half-Blood [15p] (Hosted by @Soaringdylan; )
- The Lord of the Rings: Fellowship of the Ring Mafia (Hosted by @TheCapsFan )
- Talk Like a Pirate Mafia [12p] (Hosted by @leetic)
- In-Thread Attacks Mafia [??p] (Hosted by @Zexy; )
- Super Smash Bros. Mafia [17p] (Hosted by @Elementar)
- TvTropes Mafia [10p] (Hosted by @returnofMCH and @Zexy )
- Food Connoisseur Mafia [20p] (Hosted by @Life)
- DanganRonpa 3: The End of Hope's Speak Academy Mafia [13p] (Hosted by @HumanDawn )
Special Occasion Games
- TWR Season 2016 Mafia [16p] (Hosted by @TheCapsFan; and @Zexy; ) [signups scheduled for August 1st]
- Sockpuppet Mafia 2016 [??p] [scheduled for October]
- Mystery Mafia* [16p] (Hosted by @TheCapsFan; and @Mighty Eevee; ) [scheduled for November 18 (Pokemon Sun/Moon release)]
There are hosts with multiple spots already taken. This is only telling me one thing: That if I truly care about hosting games on this site; that I can and should post my other game ideas to the queue already because it may be too late and that I would never get the opportunity. What's stopping me from just saying that my Bravely Second Mafia is finished just in case I really want to host it later on? This queue also encourages to look for websites with forums that have more availability if I want a game to be posted sooner. Special Occasion Games can also delay somebody from hosting their game even further, and are corrupt. What makes Chaos Mafia 2 a Special Occasion Game when say, compared to TWR Season 2016 Mafia? (Cool sounding game though!) Why can't Sockpuppet Mafia and Mystery Mafia just be normal games? What's the special occasion for Sockpuppet Mafia? What does Mystery Mafia have to do with Pokemon Sun/Moon, or Pokemon itself?
There's just so many problems I can't believe they haven't been tackled yet...
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Well sockpuppet mafia is special occasion because of the standard fun and games holloween sockpuppet party that starts that very same time.
And apparently in a cohosted game if one of the cohosts is not already in the queue, it counts as their game, not that I agree with it.
Finally, while I can't speak for anyone else, I do plan on hosting all my conceptual queue games, and one was even attempted before but neared its 20 day limit and had to moved back into conceptual until I feel like trying to start it again.
I already had roles written and everything.
And apparently in a cohosted game if one of the cohosts is not already in the queue, it counts as their game, not that I agree with it.
Finally, while I can't speak for anyone else, I do plan on hosting all my conceptual queue games, and one was even attempted before but neared its 20 day limit and had to moved back into conceptual until I feel like trying to start it again.
I already had roles written and everything.
Life
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One thing I would like to see a change to is also the 20 day limit on sign-ups. Imo it's too long and could use a little better structure.
For instance, let's say it's changed to 14 days. If the game hasn't been filled by that point, then the host has 3 more days to decide what to do, and by the 4th day should either have sent out role PMs or have archived the game. But after 20 days it definitely feels like games are just taking up spots imho, so I would suggest that by the 20th day, the game is either in progress or closed to assure that nothing is sitting in the queue for too long.
For instance, let's say it's changed to 14 days. If the game hasn't been filled by that point, then the host has 3 more days to decide what to do, and by the 4th day should either have sent out role PMs or have archived the game. But after 20 days it definitely feels like games are just taking up spots imho, so I would suggest that by the 20th day, the game is either in progress or closed to assure that nothing is sitting in the queue for too long.
PaulTheProtist
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Both MP and USPE needed the 20 days to fill up however,
Maniacal Engineer
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- #80
It depends on the time of year, the size of the game, and many other factors.
A larger game during a time of inactivity will fill up much slower than a smaller game during a time of excessive activity.
Example: Elieson's I Can't Believe It's Not War Room Mafia Mafia just posted signups today, but it's already almost full, if not entirely full.
A larger game during a time of inactivity will fill up much slower than a smaller game during a time of excessive activity.
Example: Elieson's I Can't Believe It's Not War Room Mafia Mafia just posted signups today, but it's already almost full, if not entirely full.
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