The Shift in Demographic Appeal in Black and White

[Bandit Keith]

I was being sarcastic, and I was disclaiming all but one but one point.

The point that wasn't disclaimed was the one about rich people is true, You don't know, you believe what the media run by the rich portrays themselves as good and noble, because it's not true. When you know, you know.

@coolcatkim22, read it all, pay attention to the details, do the logic, all before making judgement on a speech. It came a little bit hasty, yes?

 

[H-con]

I could start caring about the plot in the games when it starts to improve. However, as someone else in this thread noted, as long as the core of the game is the same, catching and battling pokémon, I really don't care, seeing that's really why I play the game, to "peace out" from all other games and just run around with my character defeating other people with my monsters. I certainly wouldn't mind an upgrade (though I think my ideas of what I'd like to see in a plot is different from many others here, who seemed to like BWs plot for some reason...).

BW was too linear for my taste, and I think it's reasonable to assume making it linear was to appeal better to a younger audience. If truly the games want to appeal to a more mature audience as well as the younger ones, I think the game needs some more variation and making it less linear. None of the games have been what I would call difficult, and I think making it more so would at least attract more older audience. I'm unsure to what impact that would have on the younger audience, considering how many people who will just smash their way through all dialogue (I've seen my fair share of stories of people who can't make it through Viridian forest in RBY because they didn't see it as an exit to name one example).

I would like them to show that they actually care for the older fans, at least more than they're doing at the moment, and not just focus things on newer kids, though that's important as well.



Also, I must say that the stereotype of rich people is just fucking stupid. Take Bill Gates for instance, just look at all the money he's donating to charity.

 

[coolcatkim22]

I did read it all, it still made no sense.
Like for instance, you said that the hero should be the villain and yet you also say the villain should die. So, should the protagonist die?

You say their should be references to this century and yet you also say the old games are too outdated even though making references to a particular era is the quickest way to make something dated.

Also, you say no more friendship even though that is the building blocks of most fiction. Heck, even some of the grittiest stuff has pro-social values.

P.S. How often are rich people portrayed in the media as good people? Most of the time they are not, that's why it's a stereotype.

 

[Heatmor C. Dawson]

I was expressing sarcasm at the statement about the "flaw" a poster mentioned with the franchise(but not specifying what is), and making a reference to Call of Duty selling better in the Us(which was out of line), while cross-referencing it with a joke related to how corporations INCLUDING NINTENDO run their offices from my Tumblr account:all the ammo I needed, @Heatmor C. Dawson.

The most realistic person who has lots of money was Selphy of the Resort Gorgeous:Snotty, bratty, conceited, materialistic, stupid, vain, overprivledged and eccentric. I was bullied by My dad's employers' CEo's children as a child, so I know FIRST HAND how bad rich people are. When the heir to the Herrings of Lowe's Home Improvement bullies you, you learn fast how privilege gives way to cocky ruthlessness(Look up Lowe's Home improvement, and cross-reference it with the last name"Herring" to find out who I am talking about).

So the only one I really want is for the rich to be portrayed in a less positive way. As greed incarnate(Ghetsis). Nothing more. That would be in tune with the REAL world The few who are wealthy and truly good people are bloody lucky.

And that's the only thing I endorse out of that listortraying the rich as inherently Ghetsis like, because they are.

OK, I think you need to calm down for a second; you seem quite aggravated. I can see your point; some rich people are jerks. But the behaviors and personalities of some do not accurately represent those of the whole. Perhaps we should just move on from that facet of the question for the time being.

 

[Moonlight Umbreon]

People should stop thinking the franchise should appeal only to kids or adults. It's supposed to appeal to all generations- changes in gameplay and plot are good, but after you reach a certain point you can't change it more without breaking the premise of the franchise.

Also, supposing all rich people are bastards because of the acts of a few of them is just as wrong as supposing all poor people are bad because one of them tried to rob you.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

People should stop thinking the franchise should appeal only to kids or adults. It's supposed to appeal to all generations- changes in gameplay and plot are good, but after you reach a certain point you can't change it more without breaking the premise of the franchise.

Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts say otherwise, which furthers the statement "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" and why Pokemon is fine the way it is.

 

[Moonlight Umbreon]

People should stop thinking the franchise should appeal only to kids or adults. It's supposed to appeal to all generations- changes in gameplay and plot are good, but after you reach a certain point you can't change it more without breaking the premise of the franchise.

Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts say otherwise, which furthers the statement "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" and why Pokemon is fine the way it is.

My point is, some changes are good (like the ones in BW), but if you change a lot, it will likely suck.

 

[The Outrage]

I sounds strange that BW brought back old fans but alienated new players yet Sonic Generations managed to bring back the old fans and appeal the new players. It's really confusing when you think about it.

It's confusing how the reactions of one fanbase differs from the reaction of another one? Pokemon and Sonic are two different franchises, and certainly would attract people for different reasons.

 

[YamiiDenryuu]

@Prison Mike:I said I don't like, want or approve of that, but in this harsh commercial world, that's what really sells.

I take it you've never seen just HOW SHAMELESS THEY ARE WITH MARIO over THERE.

If Pokémon were promoted in a Mario style, it'd work.

i'm just saying that even though the ideas I've said are morally reprehensible to me, Dark+over-commercialized=sells like hotcakes. Hence, the Yu-Gi-Oh marketing strategy works better.

I think of these demographic problems like a businessman, not a fan, in order to be more realistic/think like TCPI, Game Freak and Nintendo.

Pokémon is still a product of the corporate machine:It just needs to update which machines produce the goods.

Because, you know, Pokemon is totally having trouble selling as it is. Ha ha ha... what?

 

[Garren]

Yeah, Pokemon is, like, LITERALLY one of the most-whored out franchises in the entire gaming world.

They release multiple versions of basically the same game three times, publish countless trading cards, toys, food promotions, it has its own plane, etc. It is literally the embodiment of the corporate machine that you so detest.

 

[Shinobu]

This isn't really a serious suggestion, but it would be kind of cool of they had varying degrees of difficulty. You could have the difficulty we have now, and a harder mode where people put more consideration into stats, moveset, held items, and strategy. And there could also be a Legendary Souls mode where all the Pokemon have unusually high levels and read all of your move choices before picking their move (yeah, I just put in a Soul Calibur reference that no one probably got).

 

[El_]

Banjo Kazooie Nuts & Bolts say otherwise, which furthers the statement "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" and why Pokemon is fine the way it is.

I disagree with the notion that absolutely nothing should change. With that mindset we wouldn't be having sequels like BW2, we would instead simply have a simple revised version of BW named Grey. So some changes are indeed welcome and the deeper storyline of BW is a step in the right direction since it fits with the franchise.

As long as they don't go overboard, as with everything they just need a balance.

This isn't really a serious suggestion, but it would be kind of cool of they had varying degrees of difficulty. You could have the difficulty we have now, and a harder mode where people put more consideration into stats, moveset, held items, and strategy. And there could also be a Legendary Souls mode where all the Pokemon have unusually high levels and read all of your move choices before picking their move (yeah, I just put in a Soul Calibur reference that no one probably got).

Picking your starter is almost akin to a set difficulty level. Going with Snivy is BW for example is hard made, Tepig easy mode, and Oshwaott normal mode.

Johto: Chikorita hard, other 2 normal or in Cyndaquil's case easy.
Kanto: Charmander Hard, Squirtle normal, Bulbasaur easy.

However, they probably could do things the way that you mentioned them.

 

[smalllady]

Picking your starter is almost akin to a set difficulty level. Going with Snivy is BW for example is hard made, Tepig easy mode, and Oshwaott normal mode.

Johto: Chikorita hard, other 2 normal or in Cyndaquil's case easy.
Kanto: Charmander Hard, Squirtle normal, Bulbasaur easy.

This sounds like a case of Your Mileage May Vary. I don't thinking picking one starter Pokemon over another affects the difficulty of the game. It might be difficult in the beginning in some instances (Charmander and the first gym, anyone?), but as long as you develop a balanced team, it all evens out in the end.

I think the games can be as easy or as hard as you want them to be, so that's why there aren't preset levels of difficulty.

 

[Jukain]

I would hate for stats to be a necessary part of the game. Leave that to the competitive arena, it would make the game too hard.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

I would hate for stats to be a necessary part of the game. Leave that to the competitive arena, it would make the game too hard.

Then what's the point of stats if you don't want them to be a necessity of the core gameplay? Do you really want people have Gyarados use Hydro Pump despite having low SpA or have Jynx use Ice Punch despite having low Attk?

 

[Jukain]

People in real life or people in the game? I'm aware that the game does use a more advanced AI for like gym leaders and the E4, but if even normal trainers did that, no.

 

[El_]

This sounds like a case of Your Mileage May Vary. I don't thinking picking one starter Pokemon over another affects the difficulty of the game. It might be difficult in the beginning in some instances (Charmander and the first gym, anyone?), but as long as you develop a balanced team, it all evens out in the end.

I think the games can be as easy or as hard as you want them to be, so that's why there aren't preset levels of difficulty.

True, but generally speaking and being a person who has used nearly every starter in-game it does seem like some are almost made easier than others, even later on.

Like in Pokemon Emerald where Mudkip has an amazing advantage over the Gym Leaders, while Treecko doesn't making for a little more difficult journey. Or as said earlier Chikorita compared to Cyndaquil. Yeah, as long as you have a balanced team and know what your doing it won't matter as much, but for newer players there usually is a beginner's choice starter (Like Bulbasaur/Mudkip) that helps them better.

As for a regular easy/normal/hard/(maybe superhard) mode like on other games, it probably would be a great idea for use in a future console game. If they added rewards for any hard modes completed that might increase replay value.

 

[Jukain]

That's why a lot of people impose specific challenges on themselves to make it more interesting. This is a game where yes, the difficulty is not in the game itself because you could blaze through most of the game with your starter alone. Catch more pokemon, though, and the exp starts to be distributed to the others and thus your levels are not so high. (Ideally, there are still those that play unevenly) Use only a specific kind of pokemon and certain situations will be harder than they usually would be. I recently did a run where I was weak to two of the gyms, but I still won against them. I think this is why Nuzlocke is so popular, it's the harshest of challenges by far, and in certain situations, it may in fact be impossible. You invent your difficulty. Now you might say "why would you want to make the game harder on yourself?" I ask the same thing to those that want a higher difficulty. If you want your greater difficulty, fine, I'm not against it, but I don't think difficulty modes would do it because you can already make the game difficult and not change a thing about it. Here's your Luvdisc. Have fun.

If your issue is that the AI is too stupid to live, then I don't know what to say. I don't know of any game where the normal enemies can be just as challenging as the bosses, except for perhaps Etrian Odyssey, but even that isn't what I would call a "normal enemy". I have nothing against challenge, but what you're asking would alienate too many players. Like it or not, this game is supposed to be for everyone, so it has be withstandable to younger people as well, or even to less skilled players like myself. I know stats exist, but I don't have to pay attention to them. If I had to worry about whether or not the pokemon I randomly chose has the ability to beat something simply because it's stats are not optimized, that no longer makes the game fun for me. Forcing competitive is not the way. If you want to play that way, that's your own business, but let me play how I want to play.

 

[coolcatkim22]

I would hate for stats to be a necessary part of the game. Leave that to the competitive arena, it would make the game too hard.

Then what's the point of stats if you don't want them to be a necessity of the core gameplay? Do you really want people have Gyarados use Hydro Pump despite having low SpA or have Jynx use Ice Punch despite having low Attk?

Yes.

 

[Garren]

So, it may just be me, but I'm pretty sure stats are a NECESSARY part of an RPG. :/

It's just how you use them that changes depending on your level of play, but to suggest that stats aren't important is just stupid because, without them, there'd be no game. And you DO take advantage of stats, even if you don't EV train or breed for perfect IVs. Kids take notice of stats too, I certainly did when I was little by using the Pokemon with the strongest Atk. Score. Sure, I didn't understand all the ins-and-outs, but it's not like they didn't have any effect on my choice of Pokemon.