The Situation Room 3.0

[Isaac the Investigator]

I just don't agree. Tables give me control over how it looks, but lists are just a mess.

The first priority should be making the rules easy to read for other players, but I digress. Anyway, we should probably drop this topic - it's a very silly thing to argue about.

Aww, ME, I was really hoping you could join a game of mine for once, especially since it’s the largest I’ve hosted yet. Oh well.

Speaking of which, I just need two more people for my game to have a full roster! Come on people!

 

[Snowy]

The first priority should be making the rules easy to read for other players,

That is kinda the point in using tables though

That one looks like a mess because... well... my rules are a complete mess Most of the rules need to be reworded, some need to be removed or changed and others need to be drop kicked into the sun.

As an example, here is the last game I hosted.

LupinRanger vs PatRanger - Endgame. Gangler victory.

The Ganglers have stolen the Lupin Collection, treasures left behind by the famous phantom thief, Arsene Lupin. Phantom thieves fighting to take back what was lost. Police fighting to protect the peace of the world. Who’s side are you on? With America and Europe in chaos thanks to the...

forums.bulbagarden.net

Look how messy those rules are.

Also @SoaringDylan... Why is the autoformating system making lists even more messy?!

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

That one looks like a mess because... well... my rules are a complete mess Most of the rules need to be reworded, some need to be removed or changed and others need to be drop kicked into the sun.

As an example, here is the last game I hosted.

LupinRanger vs PatRanger - Endgame. Gangler victory.

The Ganglers have stolen the Lupin Collection, treasures left behind by the famous phantom thief, Arsene Lupin. Phantom thieves fighting to take back what was lost. Police fighting to protect the peace of the world. Who’s side are you on? With America and Europe in chaos thanks to the...

forums.bulbagarden.net

Look how messy those rules are.

Spoiler

1. Day phases will last 48 hours and Night phases will last 24 hours, unless phases get shortened as discussed in rule 9. Votes and actions will be locked as soon as the deadline for each phase passes. Votes/actions at :59 count, those at :00 don't. If the host(s) are sure that they won't be able to update, they may extend the phase in question straight from the beginning.
2. Please be active. You may be subbed out if you haven't made a game-relevant action for 72 hours. If no sub is available to take your place, or you keep not performing game-relevant actions for the next 72 hours, you may be modkilled. The aforementioned deadlines may be shortened on the host(s)' discretion, in case where waiting for that long would disrupt game integrity too much.
3. No quoting or screenshots of any conversation with the host. This includes exact wincon wording and posting fake data that supposedly comes from said sources.
4. Name claiming depends on the game, but if the opening post does not mention it, assume that name claiming is not allowed.
5. If you change your username mid-game, please state your old and new ones in-thread and mention the host(s).
6. To vote, use the following format: "VOTE: <PLAYER>". To unvote, use "UNVOTE: <PLAYER>". A tie in the plurality of votes will result in No Lynch.
7. Rules are subject to change. The host(s) will make sure to mention you if that happens. Your Role PM may also list exceptions to any of these rules.
8. No loophole abuse at all, please. You may ask the host(s) if a specific action you are unsure over would be considered a loophole in private and they may let it slide. However, obvious loopholes that are clearly outside the nature of the game abused without informing the host(s) beforehand may be faced with a zero-tolerance policy.
9. Eevee games do not announce -Lo. Instead, two things are different about Eevee games.
10. If it is a day phase and the game is capable of ending within this day phase, or the night phase, you will be notified that this may be the last phase of the game. If it is night phase, you will get the same notification but it does not apply to the next day phase.
11. Hyper-majority rules, and phase shortening will be done at the hosts discretion, and will only come into play when the host feels that activity is starting to die down. if either of these rules come into play, they will be announced at the start of a phase.
12. Outside contact depends on the game. Please include the hosts in all conversations.
13. After dying in the game, you may post more but said posts may not contain game-relevant information.
14. If the game has no deaths for 4 consecutive phases because of continuous No Lynches in the day phases followed by factions with kills purposely idling them in the night phases, or if the game has reached a stalemate state, the game will end as a tie for the parties involved.
15. You will be warned if the game is approaching such a stalemate.
16. The most important rule. Have fun!

Cleaned up the formatting of the rules list from that game a bit for you. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have an option for double spacing, which would make things easier, but it's the best option we have right now.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

I beg to differ. First one, I was killed first and through no fault of my own, it was because of my stupid role! I don't see why they seem to be popular here nowadays.

Tricks, gimmicks, and hidden modifiers make games more interesting. Now, not all tricks or gimmicks need to be bastard. Take a look at Calvin's Pokemon Generation and Build-It Mafia games.
On the other hand, introducing the chaotic element to the game that bastardness provides keeps players of all alignments on their toes and, if done well, can still have a balanced game.
I do not apologize for the outcome or setup of Chaos Mafia, and, given the nature of the game and the fact that you participated in Chaos Mafia II, you should have had a decent sense of what you were getting yourself into.

Aww, ME, I was really hoping you could join a game of mine for once, especially since it’s the largest I’ve hosted yet. Oh well.

Your sense of timing is rather poor, though I'll grant you it isn't your fault that your game happened to pop up right when I'm most busy.

 

[Snowy]

Cleaned up the formatting of the rules list from that game a bit for you. Unfortunately, we don't seem to have an option for double spacing, which would make things easier, but it's the best option we have right now.

Thanks but honestly, it still looks messy to me. Like a wall of text.

Unrelated, but are you on discord?

 

[Calvinッ]

I beg to differ. First one, I was killed first and through no fault of my own, it was because of my stupid role! I don't see why they seem to be popular here nowadays.

Agreed, I'll probably host one at some time but I tend to stay away from them as a player. Thats no offence to the host though.

 

[Snowy]

Tricks, gimmicks, and hidden modifiers make games more interesting.

They really do not. Sorry, but I don't agree.

It is possible to make a game interesting without making it unfair. Lupinranger vs Patranger had interesting gimmicks (Ones I hope to perfect) and was so far into the "Not bastard" side of things.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Unrelated, but are you on discord?

I am. For some reason though, they really don't want me to be on the TWR discord server. I think that this community should be more open, but that's just me.

Tricks, gimmicks, and hidden modifiers make games more interesting. Now, not all tricks or gimmicks need to be bastard. Take a look at Calvin's Pokemon Generation and Build-It Mafia games.
On the other hand, introducing the chaotic element to the game that bastardness provides keeps players of all alignments on their toes and, if done well, can still have a balanced game.

The thing is, with things like hidden role modifiers, alignment changes, etc it doesn't make a fully balanced game because it's not going to be fun for 100% of the players involved. You can make things fun and interesting without having to resort to bastard mechanics, and Calvin's games are proof of that. I think it's much more creative to make games that are interesting without being cheap.

 

[Snowy]

I am. For some reason though, they really don't want me to be on the TWR discord server. I think that this community should be more open, but that's just me.

Did anyone actually tell you you're not allowed there? Or have they just not given you an invite link yet?

It's @Magnificent Entertainer 's server, so if you throw a pun or two at him, he might send you the link

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Did anyone actually tell you you're not allowed there? Or have they just not given you an invite link yet?

It's @Magnificent Entertainer 's server, so if you throw a pun or two at him, he might send you the link

I asked the staff for the link, they said they won't give it to me. I am on the general Bulbagarden Discord, though, so you can contact me there.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

The thing is, with things like hidden role modifiers, alignment changes, etc it doesn't make a fully balanced game because it's not going to be fun for 100% of the players involved. You can make things fun and interesting without having to resort to bastard mechanics, and Calvin's games are proof of that. I think it's much more creative to make games that are interesting without being cheap.

Then why do the Chaos Mafia games get so many players every year?

 

[Snowy]

Then why do the Chaos Mafia games get so many players every year?

Because Chaos mafia isn't a bad game format... It's a good game format. It's just that the bastard elements can be unfair, and usually are not fun.

 

[Snowy]

Another formating test.

EDIT: Stuff it >.< I'm just not going to have any rules... I can't make it look how I want... >.<

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

...a Mafia game with no rules? I think I would quite enjoy that.

 

[Snowy]

... Of course you would >.<

New rules test

Spoiler: Important. Please read

Spoiler: Mechanics Notes

Day phases are 48 hours, and night phases are 24.
Phase ends at :00, meaning actions at 23:59 count, actions at 00:00 do not.
If the host(s) are sure that they won't be able to update, they may extend the phase in question straight from the beginning.

To vote, use the following format: "VOTE: <PLAYER>". To unvote, use "UNVOTE: <PLAYER>". A tie in the plurality of votes will result in No Lynch

If the game has no deaths for 4 consecutive phases because of continuous No Lynches in the day phases followed by factions with kills purposely idling them in the night phases, or if the game has reached a stalemate state, the game will end as a tie for the parties involved.
You will be warned if the game is approaching such a stalemate.

Spoiler: Rules

Please be active. You may be subbed out if you haven't made a game-relevant action for 72 hours. If no sub is available to take your place, or you keep not performing game-relevant actions for the next 72 hours, you may be modkilled. The aforementioned deadlines may be shortened on the host(s)' discretion, in case where waiting for that long would disrupt game integrity too much.

No quoting or screenshots of any conversation with the host. This includes exact wincon wording and posting fake data that supposedly comes from said sources.

If you change your username mid-game, please state your old and new ones in-thread and mention the host(s)

No wincon wording discussion.

After dying in the game, you may post more but said posts may not contain game-relevant information.

No loophole abuse at all, please. You may ask the host(s) if a specific action you are unsure over would be considered a loophole in private and they may let it slide. However, obvious loopholes that are clearly outside the nature of the game abused without informing the host(s) beforehand may be faced with a zero-tolerance policy.

To confirm that you have read these rules, please {something}

The most important rule. Have fun!

Spoiler: OC and Claiming

This game is no outside contact.

Role claiming and team claiming are allowed. Name claiming is not allowed.

Spoiler: Hyper Majority and -lo

Eevee games contain no Hyper-Majority rules, and do not announce -Lo. Instead, two things are different about Eevee games.

If it is a day phase and the game is capable of ending within this day phase, or the night phase, you will be notified that this may be the last phase of the game. If it is night phase, you will get the same notification but it does not apply to the next day phase.

Instead of hyper majority, late-game day phases will be shortened at the hosts discretion. This will generally be when the activity has died down, and will be announced at the beginning of the shortened phases.

Update time is at midnight, Western Australian time.

Rules are subject to change. The host(s) will make sure to mention you if that happens. Your Role PM may also list exceptions to any of these rules.

 

[FinalArcadia]

@AussieEevee
I like the format in that test. Particularly separating the OC and claiming rules into their own spoilers, since, personally, that's something I check religiously in games just to make sure I'm following the rules. I also think they're pretty important for people to see when signing up, since some people prefer NOC or OC and want to see very clearly which style the game follows.

But yeah, overall, that looks really clean and easy-to-read.

 

[ReturnofMCH]

siding with ME here, bastard games can easily be fun and balanced, like a good example is SSB ulitimate wishlist, which was my design mainly (elementar just did the flavor and some of the role PMs) and I thought it wouldn't be balanced by nature of being bastard, but everyone had a good time and the game turned out really close in the end. people especially enjoyed the super sayian custom role I created. now sometimes bastard games are unfun if not done properly, a big example being zexy's infamous pretend your xyzzy mafia, which even got renamed zexy can't balance mafia mafia because of it.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

I mean, part of the problem with Zexy Can’t Balance Mafia was that he literally created a role that made one mafia member completely immortal until D6. Yes, that Mafia member was also supposed to designate two non-mafia members to be immortal, as well, but mafia would know that, and town would not. Besides, non-mafia could also mean Indep.

I think, since I’ve been here, that is the stupidest decision I’ve ever seen anyone make about game setup.

 

[Snowy]

@AussieEevee
I like the format in that test. Particularly separating the OC and claiming rules into their own spoilers, since, personally, that's something I check religiously in games just to make sure I'm following the rules. I also think they're pretty important for people to see when signing up, since some people prefer NOC or OC and want to see very clearly which style the game follows.

But yeah, overall, that looks really clean and easy-to-read.

To be fair, most AussieEevee games are going to be NOC, and no claiming... because I prefer NOC games both as a player and as a host (OC games are more broken than bastard games)... But it is pretty amusing to watch Elieson play OC games... because he opens OC with every single player in the game

But yeah, since if any of my rules are going to change between games, it'd be those rules.

 

[DarthWolf]

A small detail you should change is when you mention your update timezone. Mentioning something like +X to indicate which zone it is is easier to know for most people than just the name of the timezone.