The Situation Room 3.0

[Snowy]

You wouldn't know who made the vote in the first place though. Polls don't show who voted for which option. All you'd see is the numbers changing.

He is right about that though... there is an option to display votes publically.

That's the only thing he's right about though.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I don't care if they have or not... That is completely irrelevant.

If it works for them, that's for them to deal with. It would not work here, and our system is just fine. As you have been told for four different people already.

My problem is that you are very ignorant about how that system actually works, and if you played you would at least understand how it works. I hate being lectured by people who tell me my actual experience playing mafia is invalid despite them having never actually played a game with that system. If you play a game with that system and then come to the conclusion that it wouldn't work here, then fine. But you can't make assumptions like that when you don't even understand what you're talking about.

 

[Snowy]

My problem is that you are very ignorant about how that system actually works, and if you played you would at least understand how it works. I hate being lectured by people who tell me my actual experience playing mafia is invalid despite them having never actually played a game with that system. If you play a game with that system and then come to the conclusion that it wouldn't work here, then fine. But you can't make assumptions like that when you don't even understand what you're talking about.

I know exactly what I am talking about... because I know how the very poll functionality of this software works.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I know exactly what I am talking about... because I know how the very poll functionality of this software works.

I do too, and there is nothing here that prevents them from working like they do in The Syndicate, where the system works perfectly fine, besides regular users not being able to change polls, however mods can do this, so it'd be easy to fix.

 

[Lone_Garurumon]

I mean, I do think you're jumping to conclusions a little bit by saying "this could never work here". I myself am still somewhat sceptical, given that Bulba games don't seem to have as many people paying massive dedicated attention to them at all times, but the only way to really know would be to play a game with Bulba players where this is the voting system. It just probably wouldn't be one of my games, is all.

 

[Snowy]

I do too, and there is nothing here that prevents them from working like they do in The Syndicate, where the system works perfectly fine, besides regular users not being able to change polls, however mods can do this, so it'd be easy to fix.

Requiring MoD intervention is a major flaw in the system.

So right now we have the score at

Advantages: able to see the votals as they are whenever you want, less chance of host error due to miscounting

Disadvantages: Lack of vote history, Stealth votes, requiring MoD intervention, can't be changed by co-host, doesn't show when a person unvotes, and I don't even think the poll system allows for unvoting. Outside interference.

And personally, you still haven't convinced me as to why you'd want us to change over to that system. I mean, our current way of doing it works just fine... and we're not the only forum to do things that way.

As LG said, if you want to do it in your own games, that's up to you... But I won't. The old way works fine.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

You do realize you are talking about a site that has sent people to the finals of the Mafia championship, something that this site has never been able to accomplish?

Congratulations. A site that's completely dedicated to mafia games has managed to do something in the Mafia Championships that a site dedicated to Pokemon has not. Truly an accomplishment for the ages.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

Requiring MoD intervention is a major flaw in the system.

It wouldn't require MoD information if you made it so that regular users could change polls in threads they created. Which, as I don't see any reason why they should not be able to do this anyway, is not unreasonable.

Advantages: able to see the votals as they are whenever you want, less chance of host error due to miscounting

Requires less energy for the host, makes updates significantly easier, makes games just flow faster, allows people to be more accountable for their votes as they are constantly on display, makes wagons more visible and easier to track, etc.

Disadvantages: Lack of vote history, Stealth votes, requiring MoD intervention, can't be changed by co-host, doesn't show when a person unvotes, and I don't even think the poll system allows for unvoting. Outside interference.

I've explained that most of these aren't actual problems. Vote history is still pretty obvious if you backtrack in the thread, stealth voting isn't even really stealthy as it will be obvious if a person has voted, the next point is balanced by updates being easier for the other host, again people can still post when they are unvoting, and placeholder votes are allowed.

And personally, you still haven't convinced me as to why you'd want us to change over to that system. I mean, our current way of doing it works just fine... and we're not the only forum to do things that way.

It's a quality of life upgrade that simply makes things much easier. If you actually played a game with this system, you'd understand what I mean.

As LG said, if you want to do it in your own games, that's up to you... But I won't. The old way works fine.

Well, then at least make it so I can update the polls without the MoD. I think we can agree on that much.

Congratulations. A site that's completely dedicated to mafia games has managed to do something in the Mafia Championships that a site dedicated to Pokemon has not. Truly an accomplishment for the ages.

I don't really think that's the case though, seeing that the number one mafia community is on a website dedicated to a rhythm game, and even other Pokémon websites like Smogon have better records than us... although all of that is besides the point. I was saying that AussieEevee shouldn't be refusing to play a game because it has "such a flawed voting system" when it's used by a website much more prestigious than ours.

 

[Snowy]

Well, then at least make it so I can update the polls without the MoD. I think we can agree on that much.

I do not agree with anything else you wrote, and I think I've already said my piece, so I won't repeat them... But as for this... Head over to General XenForo Issues/Glitches/Ideas Thread and drop your suggestion/request into the mix.

I was saying that AussieEevee shouldn't be refusing to play a game because it has "such a flawed voting system" when it's used by a website much more prestigious than ours.

To use a different example to the one ME gave... Facebook is one of the worst designed websites in the world, and frustrates me to no end. I could write a better site in my sleep, with both hands behind my back.

Facebook is also the third most popular site in the world.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

I do not agree with anything else you wrote, and I think I've already said my piece, so I won't repeat them... But as for this... Head over to General XenForo Issues/Glitches/Ideas Thread and drop your suggestion/request into the mix.


To use a different example to the one ME gave... Facebook is one of the worst designed websites in the world, and frustrates me to no end. I could write a better site in my sleep, with both hands behind my back.

Facebook is also the third most popular site in the world.

I'm honestly tired of arguing with you at this point, so I'll just leave you with this. There is a huge difference between your arguments and mine. My arguments are based on experience. I've actually played many games with that system. Yours are based on pure conjecture. You've never played a game like that, and seem unwilling to even try.

Unrelated but aren't you a part of the technical team, shouldn't you be more efficient at relaying that request than that thread which I may or may not even get a response?

Edit: Also that Facebook comparison is stupid. A more apt metaphor would be a Little League team making fun of the equipment used by the New York Yankees

 

[Snowy]

I'm honestly tired of arguing with you at this point, so I'll just leave you with this. There is a huge difference between your arguments and mine. My arguments are based on experience. I've actually played many games with that system. Yours are based on pure conjecture. You've never played a game like that, and seem unwilling to even try.

I am also unwilling to shoot myself in the foot to see if it hurts.

Your arguments are based on what works in one community. They do not take into account different playstyles, nor the different needs of this community. Bulbagarden is a family SUV while The Syndicate is a sports car. Both are cars but both have very different needs.

You have dismissed everything I have said we need as unnecessary... and maybe they are... for TS. But they are a major part of TWR's playstyle.

In short, just because you have experience with one community, doesn't mean you are more qualified than me to talk about whether or not it would work here.

Unrelated but aren't you a part of the technical team, shouldn't you be more efficient at relaying that request than that thread which I may or may not even get a response?

I'm tech support. If you have something that is broken, bring it to me and I'll do the best to find a solution or if I can't, I'll nag Dylan with it, or the other appropriate people.

However, decision making is not part of my job... That's Archaic's and Dylan's job.

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

You have dismissed everything I have said we need as unnecessary... and maybe they are... for TS. But they are a major part of TWR's playstyle.

No, I have clearly shown that your "concerns" are derived from a complete misunderstanding of what a poll system even entails, and despite me constantly providing evidence your fears are unfounded you just repeat the same things as if I failed to address them. This would be solved if you had experience with this system, but you refuse to even learn. All this tells me is that you are unwilling to even consider my idea, no matter how good or logical it is, have been dead set on your position and refuse to change your mind, and that all this arguing is pointless.

I am also unwilling to shoot myself in the foot to see if it hurts.

Do you even realize the complete ridiculousness of what you're saying? You're comparing playing a Mafia game to being shot in the foot. That's it, I have enough evidence that you are not arguing in good faith.

 

[Snowy]

Do you even realize the complete ridiculousness of what you're saying? You're comparing playing a Mafia game to being shot in the foot. That's it, I have enough evidence that you are not arguing in good faith.

The whole point of what I said was that you said I was unwilling to try it to see if I don't like it... I don't need to.

As you have been told above... If you want to incorporate it into your games, that is completely up to you. I have given you the best chance for where you get your suggestion regarding the poll system addressed

I am not willing to use this system in my own games, as it has too many drawbacks... and quite frankly, I like the old system. The old system is perfect for someone that is lazy like me. But if you want to use it in your games, no one is telling you not to. Maybe I might try it. Maybe I won't. But I will not use the system in my own games at any point.

Hint: Best way to get me to try it is to convince Magnificent Entertainer to try it.

 

[DarthWolf]

As a host I can definitely see a poll being easier, but as a player it feels like more work to keep track of changes

 

[Isaac the Investigator]

The whole point of what I said was that you said I was unwilling to try it to see if I don't like it... I don't need to.

It is rather arrogant to assume that you know how good a system is when you've never tried it

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

Hint: Best way to get me to try it is to convince Magnificent Entertainer to try it.

Try it as a player, or try it as a host.

Also, we should do a Fruit Bowl Mafia III at some point. I can put that on my list of games after Star Trek Mafia, Gen IV Mafia, and Revenge of the Admins.

 

[SoaringDylan]

A preface to this whole post @Oricorio
The Syndicate uses MyBB as a forum software, this is a way more rudimentary (free) set of software which makes it easier to make small changes to the system. We're using Xenforo, the two poll systems are inherently different. As you'll see with my explanation following below.

It wouldn't require MoD information if you made it so that regular users could change polls in threads they created. Which, as I don't see any reason why they should not be able to do this anyway, is not unreasonable.

Once a poll is created on a thread it can in fact be edited by section mods, admins & the OP of the thread. That's been this way for a while now.

stealth voting isn't even really stealthy as it will be obvious if a person has voted

It's impossible to know who voted for what on a Poll. They're anonymous. The option "Display Votes Public" doesn't actually show who voted what. It just makes it so anyone can see the results of the poll no matter their inherrent permissions.

Therefore this is the main stopping point for using this system. It would be 100% stealth votes. You'd never know who voted what, both as a host and player.

While this isn't necessarily impossible to implement, that does still ignore the other problems with the system, which you may not deem as problems (f.e. stealth voting would still be a thing even if you can see who posts what, if you wanna make sure everyone that voted posted something you're still backtracking through the thread which removes that advantage of using the system).

If we'd be implementing something for the mafia section, personally I'd do the complete package then and like M.U. make a bot.
But I'm afraid my team aka AE doesn't have the experience required to program such a bot in Xenforo 2.0's suite. Personally I'd be able to create one but I'm currently not in a position to commit the required time. (While it's not necessarily a hard feat, it would be something that requires a lot of work...)


Honestly, an off-site solution would be easier to create (one where you'd be able to iframe the current votals and send notifications / look at the history on the site as to who voted what)
Which would be way less work to create. Honestly might do that one if people would like to a "solution" to the current system.

 

[Maniacal Engineer]

if people would like to a "solution" to the current system.

Why do we need a solution for something that already works and isn’t broken?

 

[SoaringDylan]

Why do we need a solution for something that already works and isn’t broken?

Hence why I put it in quotations

 

[TheCapsFan]

I won’t go through the myriad of reasons that this is impossible, so I’ll just go with the biggest one:

A remake of Diamond or Pearl would not put Platinum to shame, much like ORAS did not put Emerald to shame (if anything, the reverse is true). A remake of Platinum would put Platinum to shame, if done correctly.

TBH tho HGSS did put Crystal to shame, so...