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The Timeline (Warning: Wailord Sized Spoilers)

Jolene

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Discuss any theories of how the Hoenn remakes could make any possible sense in the established timeline. For reference here is the "official" timeline of the Pokemon games:

1) RBY/FRLG are concurrent with RSE
2) GSC/HGSS are concurrent with DPPt
3) Black and White
4) BW2 are concurrent with XY
Source

As you can see here RSE happen a good 5 years before the events of X and Y.

Here is my theory:
ORAS will act as a back story as to why Steven leaves his post as Champion and decides to travel the world looking for stones. These stones are mega stones which he discovered on a trip to Kalos prior to the events of ORAS. He then introduces the concept to Hoenn where it gains popularity. When he is satisfied that Mega evolution has caught on he resigns as Champion and goes off searching for more. This explains why he is seen in every region except Kalos because that is where he found them in the first place.

I think this theory stands because it doesn't drastically change the timeline. I do think the Time Capsule might make a reappearance for the sake of continuity to trade with Kalos or they might just not explain it at all.
 
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Re: The Timeline

I go by the old 'New overwrites old' rule for the most part, so ORAS and any plot extensions/alterations it brings becomes the new 'canon' events, while the originals are the non-canon version of events. Alternatively you can view RSE to ORAS as alternate timelines since pokemon from that 'time' can be brought over to the new timeline. I doubt the Time Capsule will return because it can just be handwaved away at this point. RSE and FRLG were concurrent, but if we go by the 'new timeline' version of events, ORAS could just take place concurrent to XY instead, with there being no FRLG current event
 
Re: The Timeline

I tend to look at remakes as "Well, there's the story you already know... but here's some things that you never knew from the original story, which happened anyways". Kind of like a Director's Cut of a movie.

And since RSE takes place before X and Y, we can assume ORAS does as well, which means that Steven might have introduced the concept of Mega Evolution to Sycamore, who at this point in the timeline might be training under Prof. Rowan (stated in X and Y) while Rowan's in Kanto with Oak (stated in D, P, Pt) and since it's generally accepted that all regions' GL, E4, Champions and Professors know each other, then Steven must know Oak and Rowan at this time, which backs up my theory.
 
Re: The Timeline

I go by the old 'New overwrites old' rule for the most part, so ORAS and any plot extensions/alterations it brings becomes the new 'canon' events, while the originals are the non-canon version of events.
Toshinobu Matsumiya specifically listed the original games in his famous timeline tweet. For instance, he listed Red/Green and Ruby/Sapphire as being contemporary. This goes to show that Game Freak don't think of the remakes as rendering the original games non-canon. Some details get retconned, but that isn't such a big deal in the grand scheme of things, as none of the games give us a complete picture of the Pokémon world. I explained this in a recent post.

Jolene said:
ORAS will act as a back story as to why Steven leaves his post as Champion and decides to travel the world looking for stones.
Yes, this is important. For Game Freak not to explain this would be a failure on their part.

This explains why he is seen in every region except Kalos because that is where he found them in the first place.
I'd say that he was only seen in Kanto, since B2W2's World Tournament had no bearing on the story (only Cynthia, Crasher Wake and Sabrina appeared in other places in Unova) and failed to account for aging. It was implied that Steven also visited Sinnoh at some point and used to own the Resort Villa, but he wasn't actually seen there.
 
Re: The Timeline

Given that CoroCoro said Steven Stone is Champion then it has to take place at the same RSE did. That would mean Wallace could still be Champion as of BW2/XY and Steven could still be Champion in HGSS. The guy in the suit at the PWT clearly states that Steven is the former Champion of Hoenn. There is still one issue though. In BW, a Team Plasma grunt mentions Team Rocket and Team Galactic but makes no mention of Aqua/Magma. They remember Team Rocket but not Aqua and Magma?
 
Re: The Timeline

In BW, a Team Plasma grunt mentions Team Rocket and Team Galactic but makes no mention of Aqua/Magma. They remember Team Rocket but not Aqua and Magma?
Two past grunts appeared in B2W2 just two years later. I am not surprised that people outside Hoenn didn't take note of these teams, seeing as Groudon and Kyogre weren't even under their control.
 
Re: The Timeline

It really doesn't matter where RSE - or better, Emerald - was placed originally in the timeline. Remakes overwrite the original games, which are "erased" from the timeline. After Emerald, Ruby & Sapphire lost their canon status and now with Omega Ruby & Alpha Sapphire, the Emerald isn't canon anymore either. Same goes to Red & Green, after Fire Red & Leaf Green (Yellow was never "canon") and Crystal, after Heart Gold & Soul Silver. As previously mentioned, 'new overwrites old'.

Either way, after that mess of a feature called Pokémon World Tournament, I kinda stopped caring about timeline in Pokémon games, since Game Freak clearly doesn't give a fuck about it either.
 
Re: The Timeline

Jolene said:
ORAS will act as a back story as to why Steven leaves his post as Champion and decides to travel the world looking for stones.
Yes, this is important. For Game Freak not to explain this would be a failure on their part.

This is why I'd prefer the scenario where Wallace becomes Champion post-game and Juan the new gym leader. It basically shows rather than tells us Juan's back story like they did in Emerald, while freeing up Steven to continue his search for the secrets of Mega Evolution and Primal Reversion.

In RS, I found it completely strange that Steven would leave you a Beldum and a letter at his Mossdeep home rather than handing it to you himself despite the fact that he's still in the region. Even in Emerald, its still weird since he's exploring a cave that he surely has explored in the past. It would be more interesting if Steven left you a Rainbow ticket to track him down in the Sevii Islands or something rather than just mysteriously leaving a Pokemon when he's still there.

I know people don't like the idea of the Sevii Islands, but we know that both Groudon and Kyogre basically spew land and ocean from their bodies in their Primal Reversion states. The Sevii Islands supposedly gets its name from being formed in seven days, and the official website seems to suggest Groudon and Kyogre have fought multiple times. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sevii Islands were one of these locations.
 
Re: The Timeline

Jolene said:
ORAS will act as a back story as to why Steven leaves his post as Champion and decides to travel the world looking for stones.
Yes, this is important. For Game Freak not to explain this would be a failure on their part.

This is why I'd prefer the scenario where Wallace becomes Champion post-game and Juan the new gym leader. It basically shows rather than tells us Juan's back story like they did in Emerald, while freeing up Steven to continue his search for the secrets of Mega Evolution and Primal Reversion.

In RS, I found it completely strange that Steven would leave you a Beldum and a letter at his Mossdeep home rather than handing it to you himself despite the fact that he's still in the region. Even in Emerald, its still weird since he's exploring a cave that he surely has explored in the past. It would be more interesting if Steven left you a Rainbow ticket to track him down in the Sevii Islands or something rather than just mysteriously leaving a Pokemon when he's still there.

I know people don't like the idea of the Sevii Islands, but we know that both Groudon and Kyogre basically spew land and ocean from their bodies in their Primal Reversion states. The Sevii Islands supposedly gets its name from being formed in seven days, and the official website seems to suggest Groudon and Kyogre have fought multiple times. I wouldn't be surprised if the Sevii Islands were one of these locations.

It's also weird in that he just leaves a Beldum there, expecting you to show up at his house. Also if the game takes place around BW2 and X/Y then yeah it makes sense for Wallace to be Champion in post game. It's really quite simple for Game Freak to clear up this whole timeline issue, who was Champion when, and the Juan/Wallace thing. They need to make the game take place right before BW2 and X/Y so Steven can still be Champion, step down, Wallace succeed him, and Juan take Wallace's position as the eighth Gym Leader. How cool would it be to show up for a post game rematch at the Sootopolis gym and Juan is the Gym leader all of a sudden? If they do all this then the PWT guy's statement that Wallace is the current Champion is still true, Steven was still Champion during HGSS, and both Juan & Wallace have been the Sootopolis Gym Leader.
 
Re: The Timeline

It's also weird in that he just leaves a Beldum there, expecting you to show up at his house. Also if the game takes place around BW2 and X/Y then yeah it makes sense for Wallace to be Champion in post game. It's really quite simple for Game Freak to clear up this whole timeline issue, who was Champion when, and the Juan/Wallace thing. They need to make the game take place right before BW2 and X/Y so Steven can still be Champion, step down, Wallace succeed him, and Juan take Wallace's position as the eighth Gym Leader. How cool would it be to show up for a post game rematch at the Sootopolis gym and Juan is the Gym leader all of a sudden? If they do all this then the PWT guy's statement that Wallace is the current Champion is still true, Steven was still Champion during HGSS, and both Juan & Wallace have been the Sootopolis Gym Leader.
I don't really see why it needs to take place around BW2/XY's timeline for that to happen. Neither Lance, Blue, nor Red were acting champions by the time of the PWT, but still held the title. Regardless of whether Steven was beaten by Wallace or simply stepped down, he was still beaten by May/Brendan when he claims to be the Champion--and if I recall, he alludes to the current HgSs trainer reminding him of the RS trainer. I don't think a person loses the title of Champion because they are no longer active--they're simply not the active Champion.
 
Re: The Timeline

Considering Giovanni I just assume the whole PWT to be non-canon.
 
Re: The Timeline

Also if the game takes place around BW2 and X/Y.
I am not sure why this is still considered a possibility after the timeline was confirmed on the same day as ORAS' announcement. It was a blatant way of telling us when ORAS are supposed to take place. Again, Matsumiya doesn't distinguish between remakes and original games, and it's very awkward to suggest that the original games don't take place at the same time as their remakes.
 
Re: The Timeline

I understand the concept of new overwriting old and one I agree with, but this is ORAS overwriting XY which was only last year.

It's explicitly stated, MegaEvo is exclusive to Kalos, and has only just been discovered. ORAS/RSE take place roughly 11 years beforehand and in Hoenn so that completely overwrites, Kalos exclusive/ recent discovery.

This timeline is screwed, and I doubt Game Freak care, as they are a bit slap dash when it comes to detail.
 
Re: The Timeline

It's explicitly stated, MegaEvo is exclusive to Kalos, and has only just been discovered.

Actually, they make it clear that the first Mega Evolution occurred many years prior to the events of X and Y.

But its not known, its a relatively new phenomenon. So it doesn't make sense for it to be rampant in Hoenn 11 years ago, where even the Champion of that region, so someone pretty high profile uses it.

Same with Fairy type. They say it newly discovered and exclusive to Kalos, looks like Fairys were around all along, even 11 years ago in Hoenn.
 
Re: The Timeline

It's explicitly stated, MegaEvo is exclusive to Kalos, and has only just been discovered. ORAS/RSE take place roughly 11 years beforehand and in Hoenn so that completely overwrites, Kalos exclusive/ recent discovery.
But its not known, its a relatively new phenomenon. So it doesn't make sense for it to be rampant in Hoenn 11 years ago, where even the Champion of that region, so someone pretty high profile uses it.

Same with Fairy type. They say it newly discovered and exclusive to Kalos, looks like Fairys were around all along, even 11 years ago in Hoenn.

Recently discovered with 3000 years of Kalos history and at least three (known) generations of Mega Evolution masters, a giant tower, books and a statue of the "first" Mega Evolved Pokemon behind it. That misconception really needs to die now. Even Fairy weren't "recently discovered" so much as the entire type chart was reclassified and Fairy was recently recognized as its own type. Hoenn could easily avoid contradicting that by not mentioning Fairy outside of mandatory tutorials at all.

The contradiction is Sycamore and everyone saying Mega Evolution was exclusive to Kalos. Now, while I doubt that ever meant Mega Stones stopped working outside of Kalos (for some reason some fans did?), I did take it to mean that natural Mega stones couldn't exist anywhere else. Apparently this isn't the case. But Sycamore also gave up on mastering Mega Evolution so.....

There may be an explanation for it--we know that the ultimate weapon may have been partially fueled with Xerneas and Yveltal's energy. Xerneas seems to draw energy from the Earth (as evidenced by Geomancy) while Yveltal draws energy from other life forms. Groudon and Kyogre's Primal Reversion supposedly draws in "natural energy" from its surroundings to fuel its power. What if this "natural energy" is something common to what fuels Xerneas and Yveltal? I bet its aura, why else was the first Mega Evolution Lucario....because GF loves Lucario almost as much as Pikachu.

The ultimate weapon supposedly caused stones in Kalos (hypothesized by Sycamore to be evolutionary stones) to transform into Mega Stones. Now what's interesting is that the official website states that the natural energy absorbed by Groudon and Kyogre spill forth as lava and seawater. Perhaps in their Primal Reversion states, when Primal Groudon and Kyogre's energies meet, Mega Stones are created--for instance, lava cooled into rocks by Kyogre's seawater may in turn have the potential to become Mega Stones due to the "natural energy" flowing through them.

In any case, we really shouldn't let XY's poor writing ruin the whole series. It's not that unheard of for Steven to study Mega Evolution under Gurkinn. Diantha was also a high-profile Champion and movie star who wielded Mega Evolution yet somehow Steven having it invalidates how shrouded in secret it is? A single amateur researcher (talking about Steven, not Sycamore) looking into the phenomenon doesn't mean that 11 years later they'd have all the answers behind it--science can be very slow sometimes, especially when the people who actually have knowledge on it would prefer to guard its secrets in a tower unless you pass their test.
 
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Re: The Timeline

But its not known, its a relatively new phenomenon. So it doesn't make sense for it to be rampant in Hoenn 11 years ago, where even the Champion of that region, so someone pretty high profile uses it.

Same with Fairy type. They say it newly discovered and exclusive to Kalos, looks like Fairys were around all along, even 11 years ago in Hoenn.

It's new to Sycamore because he just started researching it around the time of XY, but the phenomenon is not actually new. It's just not known about by many people. Nothing's to say that Steven couldn't have known about it beforehand.

It's never said that Fairy Pokemon were exclusive to Kalos. It has always existed, it is just now being classified as its own type. Just like Dark and Steel.
 
Re: The Timeline

But its not known, its a relatively new phenomenon. So it doesn't make sense for it to be rampant in Hoenn 11 years ago, where even the Champion of that region, so someone pretty high profile uses it.

Same with Fairy type. They say it newly discovered and exclusive to Kalos, looks like Fairys were around all along, even 11 years ago in Hoenn.

Recently discovered with 3000 years of Kalos history and at least three (known) generations of Mega Evolution masters, a giant tower, books and a statue of the "first" Mega Evolved Pokemon behind it. That misconception really needs to die now. Even Fairy weren't "recently discovered" so much as the entire type chart was reclassified and Fairy was recently recognized as its own type. Hoenn could easily avoid contradicting that by not mentioning Fairy outside of mandatory tutorials at all.

The contradiction is Sycamore and everyone saying Mega Evolution was exclusive to Kalos. Now, while I doubt that ever meant Mega Stones stopped working outside of Kalos (for some reason some fans did?), I did take it to mean that natural Mega stones couldn't exist anywhere else. Apparently this isn't the case. But Sycamore also gave up on mastering Mega Evolution so.....

There may be an explanation for it--we know that the ultimate weapon may have been partially fueled with Xerneas and Yveltal's energy. Xerneas seems to draw energy from the Earth (as evidenced by Geomancy) while Yveltal draws energy from other life forms. Groudon and Kyogre's Primal Reversion supposedly draws in "natural energy" from its surroundings to fuel its power. What if this "natural energy" is something common to what fuels Xerneas and Yveltal? I bet its aura, why else was the first Mega Evolution Lucario....because GF loves Lucario almost as much as Pikachu.

The ultimate weapon supposedly caused stones in Kalos (hypothesized by Sycamore to be evolutionary stones) to transform into Mega Stones. Now what's interesting is that the official website states that the natural energy absorbed by Groudon and Kyogre spill forth as lava and seawater. Perhaps in their Primal Reversion states, when Primal Groudon and Kyogre's energies meet, Mega Stones are created--for instance, lava cooled into rocks by Kyogre's seawater may in turn have the potential to become Mega Stones due to the "natural energy" flowing through them.

In any case, we really shouldn't let XY's poor writing ruin the whole series. It's not that unheard of for Steven to study Mega Evolution under Gurkinn. Diantha was also a high-profile Champion and movie star who wielded Mega Evolution yet somehow Steven having it invalidates how shrouded in secret it is? A single amateur researcher (talking about Steven, not Sycamore) looking into the phenomenon doesn't mean that 11 years later they'd have all the answers behind it--science can be very slow sometimes, especially when the people who actually have knowledge on it would prefer to guard its secrets in a tower unless you pass their test.

I love this comment. My original theory was that since AZ's War is implied to have been a World Wide War, he decided to try out the ultimate weapon by blasting every other known region with it to quell their fighting and then used it on Kalos once he was satisfied it'd work, not knowing he'd created Mega Stones in every region. But I like the theory that natural energy combined with trauma to the environment creates the stones. Sort of a way for Pokémon to bulk up temporarily to save their homes. Kind of reminds me of Sage Mode from Naruto.
 
Re: The Timeline

It's explicitly stated, MegaEvo is exclusive to Kalos, and has only just been discovered.

Actually, they make it clear that the first Mega Evolution occurred many years prior to the events of X and Y.

But its not known, its a relatively new phenomenon. So it doesn't make sense for it to be rampant in Hoenn 11 years ago, where even the Champion of that region, so someone pretty high profile uses it.

Same with Fairy type. They say it newly discovered and exclusive to Kalos, looks like Fairys were around all along, even 11 years ago in Hoenn.

Just gonna copy and past what i wrote in seribii


Why can't we look at this as a prequel? starwars aired episodes 4 5 and 6 YEARS (talking around 30?) before they even started making episode 1. look at it in the light of a prequel coming out later to reveal past events like black 2 came out first and then black ( didn't happen just giving an idea) why didn't scyamore know of mega evolution? the guy knew about mega evolution quite well we was feigning ignorance so the children could learn on their own instead of giving a large lecture. mega stones have been around for 3000 years and theres a mega evolution guru in kalos who has been there since before scyamore was born. he should have known everything long before you came along its not like mega evos were discovered the day you moved to kalos he didn't really need you. He wanted you to experience everything yourself.

everything on the timeline can stay as it is just replace r/s/e with or/as and its fine.

also another plot hole no one ever brings up johto and its 100 pokemon not in kanto ( some of which are in kanto in g/s/c) is literally a short walk from oaks lab how did he not know of the other 100? these retcons happen all the time each 3 years we're lead to believe theres only

151
251
386
493
649
721
and in seventh gen
100000000000000000000000000000000 ( hypothetical xD)

and yet some of these pokemon have been known of since ancient times like kyogre and groudon ( and beheyem since 50 years ago long before r/b/y yet no one from unova told oak? and if you want to bring up how unova is very far away from kanto the same applies to hoenn and kalos as kalos renumbers their routes just like unova) did oak not talk to birch? elm? rowan? juniper? no infact he's been seen talking to two of the above. he lied to you as well wanting you to discover how many pokemon there were on your own
 
Re: The Timeline

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if they no longer give a f*** about a timeline. Like, for all we know it's could be some massive circular time loop. RBY > GSC > RSE=FRLG > DPP=HGSS > BW > BW2 > XY=ORAS. oh yeah, and RBY=FRLG, GSC=HGSS, and RSE=ORAS. So therefore XY is simultaneously going on in the past and the future. I'm not trying to say that's true, because it makes no sense, but that's just the point. It doesn't really have to. Game freak can literally just say "cuz they felt like it" and it is what it is. (However, here's hoping they do in fact keep continuity and address that this game is in the past).
 
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