The Timeline (Warning: Wailord Sized Spoilers)

[MissingNo. 1]

Here's how I believe the universes work in Pokemon and what I think their respective timelines are (in terms of the main games only):

A universe where AZ's war never happened A: RBGY (Gen I) --(3 years)--> GSC (Gen II)
A universe where AZ's war never happened B: RSE/FRLG (Gen III) --(3 years)--> DPPt/HGSS (Gen IV) --(a few years)--> BW (Gen V) --(2 years)--> B2W2 (Gen V)
A universe where AZ's war did happen: AZ's war --(3000+ years)--> ORAS/(AZ)FRLG --(3 years)--> (AZ)DPPt/(AZ)HGSS (Gen IV) --(a few years)--> (AZ)BW (Gen V) --(2 years)--> (AZ)B2W2/XY (Gen VI)

When I put (AZ) in front of a game (relevant only to the third universe that I speculate), I mean a game that, within the multiverse of Pokemon, would have Mega Evolutions in it but has not been released with Mega Evolutions available in that game yet. For example, (AZ)FRLG means a game that centers around Red and Blue in Kanto in a universe where AZ's war did happen (because the events of Kanto probably still happened in the universe where AZ's war occurred). So what I'm speculating is that there may be remakes of games from Gen III-V. Not necessarily all in Generation VI, though. The reason I speculate this is, again, the occurrence of AZ's war probably didn't prevent the events of Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh and Unova, right?

 

[Magmaster12]

I wonder if there's some sort of in story reason why Unown hasn't been available since Gen IV.

 

[hwrdjacob]

Here's how I believe the universes work in Pokemon and what I think their respective timelines are (in terms of the main games only):

A universe where AZ's war never happened A: RBGY (Gen I) --(3 years)--> GSC (Gen II)
A universe where AZ's war never happened B: RSE/FRLG (Gen III) --(3 years)--> DPPt/HGSS (Gen IV) --(a few years)--> BW (Gen V) --(2 years)--> B2W2 (Gen V)
A universe where AZ's war did happen: AZ's war --(3000+ years)--> ORAS/(AZ)FRLG --(3 years)--> (AZ)DPPt/(AZ)HGSS (Gen IV) --(a few years)--> (AZ)BW (Gen V) --(2 years)--> (AZ)B2W2/XY (Gen VI)

I personally rationalize it as the Mega Stones being discovered in X/Y or in ORAS.

Firstly, it makes just as much sense as discovering all these Pokemon every gen...

Second, here's what a more detailed version of my timeline would look like, including side games (Side Game: A game that's kind of an "expansion pack" to a main game I.E. Pokemon Stadium, Box R/S, MPR, etc.) ([game]/[game] means they take place at the same time, usually during the post game if applicable)

AZ's War Never happens>RGY/Stadium>GSC/Stadium 2<-(The Olden World)

....................................................../->ORAS/Bank (TL 2)
AZ's War>(About 3,000 Yrs.)>Colo>FRLG>Emrld/BoxR+S>XD>HGSS>Pt/BR/MPR>BW>BW2>XY/Bank(TL1)
Without Side games included in timeline:
..................../-ORAS
AZ's War>FRLG>Emerald>HGSS>Platinum>BW>BW2>XY

Now, No, I don't think AZ's War would prevent it from happening, however it also does not confirm it did happen.

 

[Team Gaara]

Wally is the only one who is 10. May and Brendan are said to be 12.

It's said in game that they're 12? Where? I must have missed it. Definitely missed Wally's; would have liked to have seen that one.

I've noticed ORAS seems to be doing a lot of canonizing with ages, which I can appreciate. Tabitha's apparently just made 27, Birch is said to be 35, if I remember correctly, and even Briney and Cosmo's ages were stated on the HNN, but I can't remember the exact number for either.

 

[Silktree]

It's said in game that they're 12? Where? I must have missed it. Definitely missed Wally's; would have liked to have seen that one.

It's from a news report in reference to the opposite-gender character:

This is an HNN special report. As the damage due to the effects of the mysterious, extreme weather assaulting all areas of the Hoenn region continues to spread, a little girl who had gone missing in Lilycove City was safely rescued thanks to the efforts of one young Trainer. His/her name is Brendan/May, aged 12, a Trainer from Littleroot Town. While the extreme weather only continues to grow more powerful, many Pokémon Trainers are out saving people from danger, starting with Trainers like Brendan/May!

I wonder if there's some sort of in story reason why Unown hasn't been available since Gen IV.

There is actually a mirage cave in ORAS exclusively for the Unown. I assume that all letters included, but I've seen no confirmation.

You thought that the Unown might be absent from this timeline?

 

[PiPie314]

I don't know if this has been posted yet, (Not reading through 200+ posts) but at the beginning of Δ Episode your dad is watching TV. The music that's coming from it is the music that plays when Folette comes back to AZ at the end of XY. I'm pretty sure that Sycamore says that the parade was being broadcast on television. Also I believe someone (Mr.Stone?) said that Dexoys was a virus that got mutated by a laser. That laser could be the one Lynsandre fires from the WMD. So that means XY and ORAS take place at the same time!!!

 

[Silktree]

So that means XY and ORAS take place at the same time!!!

That's purely circumstantial evidence. No one says that Norman is watching the Kalos parade (his wife says that he's just watching his show) or that Deoxys was created as a result of the ultimate weapon. As a matter of fact, we do know that XY take place after Black and White (judging from the references to Team Plasma's actions), and we also know that ORAS take place before Black and White seeing as the Battle Royale is said to be under construction and won't be finished for years. This means that ORAS take place years before XY.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

I found the magma and aqua couple in the battle resort so it definitely takes place before b2/w2, also theres no way or/as happens at the same time as x/y looker lost his memory in or/as meaning it takes place before platinum ( and in x/y he knows who he is, unlike or/as) and the royal unova is stated to not be finished for - years (its blank so its up to us to determine how long we think it is)

 

[The Outrage]

If you're looking for direct evidence, Mr. Bonding wasn't...born...until after you beat the Pokemon League, whereas he tries to bond with you in Kalos fairly early in the games.

The dream scientist in Devon Co. also references Fennel, and how they're competing on their Dream research. Obviously Fennel hasn't finished yet or else he would have given up, placing this before BW.

 

[hwrdjacob]

As I have stated several times, I feel as though this is an alternate sequel to FRLG and it will lead to very similar events as to the normal timeline, but different from them in many ways.

..................../-ORAS
AZ's War>FRLG>Emerald>HGSS>Platinum>BW>BW2>XY
Y'know, like this. It's leading to parallel events to the normal timeline.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Hoenn is much earlier to XY, and the main evidence is:

- Royal Unova is "under development"
- Mr. Bonding's "creation"
- Matsumiya's tweet: (RG = RS > GS = DPPt > BW > B2W2 = X/Y). He's from staff, you can't argue with that.
- After Episode Delta, Steven is seen talking with Wallace about traveling and discovering the world, trusting Wallace for the Champion position when he leaves. So, Steven at that point had never left Hoenn (or at least not for a while) and his appearances and mentions in another games are posterior. (It's known he left Sinnoh shortly before Platinum, appears in HG/SS, and is mentioned in B/W. Then it's PWT, but I prefer not to take PWT as canon.

About inconsistencies, Mega Evolution and stuff: I think GF is kind of rebuilding the Pokémon universe to make it consistent, so there are one or two things to rewrite. Zinnia's talk about parallel univeres come to "justify" this: she explicitly talks about a "what if" there was no AZ's war and no mega-evolution, and this is where all the older games fit.

Now, Sinnoh and Unova games can still be "fixed" through remakes. Anooooother Kanto remake would be redundant, so I think Pokémon Origins is how Kanto's timeline is added to new universe's canon. The only thing left is Johto, maybe through an Origins' sequel?

That said, there's a last thing that has me intrigued: Looker. A Swimmer in the beach talks about something fallen in the sea a week ago, and then Looker appears in a beach, completely amnesic. Nothing else is told. Did he crash his TARDIS?

 

[The Outrage]

After Episode Delta, Steven is seen talking with Wallace about traveling and discovering the world, trusting Wallace for the Champion position when he leaves. So, Steven at that point had never left Hoenn (or at least not for a while) and his appearances and mentions in another games are posterior. (It's known he left Sinnoh shortly before Platinum, appears in HG/SS, and is mentioned in B/W. Then it's PWT, but I prefer not to take PWT as canon.

Steven goes wherever there are rocks. It's been confirmed in-game by the Fossil Maniac in Fallarbor Town that Steven "crossed three oceans" before eventually arriving at Kalos to find the Shiny Beldum that the player receives as a Mystery Gift (doesn't necessarily mean Kalos is three oceans away; just that he's traveled across three oceans before ultimately finding Beldum)

PWT is as canon as the Battle Frontier is. It has that whole game and story segregation thing going for it in terms of teams used (especially the downloaded wifi ones), but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a World Tournament held (especially since all of Driftveil was renovated to accommodate it). Why should you question the information about trainers given in the tournament?

That said, there's a last thing that has me intrigued: Looker. A Swimmer in the beach talks about something fallen in the sea a week ago, and then Looker appears in a beach, completely amnesic. Nothing else is told. Did he crash his TARDIS?

Game Freak seems to be drawing from anime canon more recently (Steven references Alain), so perhaps in this universe the SS Anne sank like in the Anime-verse. We know there was an undercover Global Police agent on the SS Anne, so that person could very well be Looker and Game Freak is retroactively putting him in Gen I games.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Steven goes wherever there are rocks. It's been confirmed in-game by the Fossil Maniac in Fallarbor Town that Steven "crossed three oceans" before eventually arriving at Kalos to find the Shiny Beldum that the player receives as a Mystery Gift (doesn't necessarily mean Kalos is three oceans away; just that he's traveled across three oceans before ultimately finding Beldum)

PWT is as canon as the Battle Frontier is. It has that whole game and story segregation thing going for it in terms of teams used (especially the downloaded wifi ones), but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a World Tournament held (especially since all of Driftveil was renovated to accommodate it). Why should you question the information about trainers given in the tournament?

I'm sorry, I forgot about the Beldum thing. Anyway, that conversation sounds like all these trips were several years ago and he was considerably younger. It's much more likely their ingame cameos/mentions are chronologically posterior.

About PWT, I'm not "denying" it as canon, just I think it "may or not be".

 

[Mitchman]

Steven goes wherever there are rocks. It's been confirmed in-game by the Fossil Maniac in Fallarbor Town that Steven "crossed three oceans" before eventually arriving at Kalos to find the Shiny Beldum that the player receives as a Mystery Gift (doesn't necessarily mean Kalos is three oceans away; just that he's traveled across three oceans before ultimately finding Beldum)

PWT is as canon as the Battle Frontier is. It has that whole game and story segregation thing going for it in terms of teams used (especially the downloaded wifi ones), but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a World Tournament held (especially since all of Driftveil was renovated to accommodate it). Why should you question the information about trainers given in the tournament?

That said, there's a last thing that has me intrigued: Looker. A Swimmer in the beach talks about something fallen in the sea a week ago, and then Looker appears in a beach, completely amnesic. Nothing else is told. Did he crash his TARDIS?

Game Freak seems to be drawing from anime canon more recently (Steven references Alain), so perhaps in this universe the SS Anne sank like in the Anime-verse. We know there was an undercover Global Police agent on the SS Anne, so that person could very well be Looker and Game Freak is retroactively putting him in Gen I games.

I think if looker was put in as the agent, and if teqm rocket sank the SS Anne, Pokemon Origins would have shown it. Then when ORAS finally came out, oh crap we found looker from origins. I still think its the canon retelling of rby for this universe with or without stuff like that however.
I still hold that looker is from the other place, after the events of Black/White. GF made it look like he was in Kalos whrn Neo Plasma was attacking Unova, but I maintain the idea that he somehow got carried over to Hoenn for some reason. Hence why he keeps the codename. Its not for his looks, but because he really is looking for something. My guess is his memories, and then by XY a eay back.

 

[firepanda]

Did he crash his TARDIS?

Oh God no. That is too horrifying to contemplate. The Doctor is awesome (especially Tenant <3) and Looker is... not.

 

[Bittersweet]

Did he crash his TARDIS?

Oh God no. That is too horrifying to contemplate. The Doctor is awesome (especially Tenant <3) and Looker is... not.

Not to take this thread on a complete tangent, but with all the time-space meddling that's happening and this talk of "parallel worlds" within the Pokémon universe (or, I guess it's now officially the Pokémon Multiverse), I'm going to go with the personal head-canon that some event with the [DELTA EPISODE SPOILER]

Spoiler

energy that fuels Mega Evolution and the Mossdeep rocket, opened up a crack in space time, and a version of the 10th Doctor fell through and lost his memory. My evidence for this is that they are both detectives sort of, and they look similar. It's practically confirmed canon!

Here's how I believe the universes work in Pokemon and what I think their respective timelines are (in terms of the main games only):

A universe where AZ's war never happened A: RBGY (Gen I) --(3 years)--> GSC (Gen II)
A universe where AZ's war never happened B: RSE/FRLG (Gen III) --(3 years)--> DPPt/HGSS (Gen IV) --(a few years)--> BW (Gen V) --(2 years)--> B2W2 (Gen V)
A universe where AZ's war did happen: AZ's war --(3000+ years)--> ORAS/(AZ)FRLG --(3 years)--> (AZ)DPPt/(AZ)HGSS (Gen IV) --(a few years)--> (AZ)BW (Gen V) --(2 years)--> (AZ)B2W2/XY (Gen VI)

When I put (AZ) in front of a game (relevant only to the third universe that I speculate), I mean a game that, within the multiverse of Pokemon, would have Mega Evolutions in it but has not been released with Mega Evolutions available in that game yet. For example, (AZ)FRLG means a game that centers around Red and Blue in Kanto in a universe where AZ's war did happen (because the events of Kanto probably still happened in the universe where AZ's war occurred). So what I'm speculating is that there may be remakes of games from Gen III-V. Not necessarily all in Generation VI, though. The reason I speculate this is, again, the occurrence of AZ's war probably didn't prevent the events of Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh and Unova, right?

This is the most logical summation I've read thus far...

I'd probably call those canons "Original Universe", "Revised Original Universe", and "Mega Universe", respectively.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

And the lumoise ghost girl is alive

 

[Champion Red]

For timeline names, an idea on Reddit I heard was the Classic universe, the Dual-Slot universe and the Pokebank universe. Also I'd assume that each universe splits into different realities for different game versions, starters, etc.

(Also Pokemon always has been a Multiverse really. Perhaps each large universe, Games, Manga and Anime are each a Multiverse, with several universes within each)

 

[Oshakpop]

It seems like its way off but I would love if future DPPt remakes (Temporal Diamond and Spatial Pearl) touched upon the whole timeline thing, maybe in a 'Renegade Episode' type scenario with Giratina.

 

[BlackButterfree]

Re: The Timeline

While the timeline hasn't changed, the Delta Episode implies something rather big about ORAS compared to the original games:

Spoiler

Zinnia says that there is another universe where Mega Evolution is unknown as AZ's war never happened in it. This is obviously a reference to the universe of the first five generations (although it could be argued that the versions further divide into more universes, which was made explicit in the Unova games).

Steven and the Space Center professor attempt to warp the meteoroid to "another place" (which they don't seem to know anything about), but Zinnia prevents that from happening (by destroying the dimensional shifter) as she conjectures that said place is none other than the parallel universe. In the Hoenn of that universe, people may not have the technology to deal with a meteoroid, so Zinnia resolves to use Rayquaza's power to destroy the meteoroid altogether.

Toward the end of the episode, Zinnia recalls her past with someone (a she) called Aster that has passed away. She makes a cryptic remark that she wants to reunite with that Aster (not the namesake Whismur) whom she loved so much: "I'll spend some time now to figure out if it's also possible to forge a new beginning for something once lost." This begs the question if the reason Zinnia was so protective of the other universe is that she wants to be with Aster's other version.

Spoiler

While its such a cop-out, its the most interesting cop-out Game Freak came up with. Here's how I think their worlds are structured. Each version is an alternate timeline influenced by minor choices (e.g., starters you choose, legendaries that get confronted) and each timeline is governed by a more "macro-universe" that underlies the mechanics of that universe and major defining events that influenced it. I think there are three clear macro-verses:

RBGY--->GSC
Major event: Time Machine

Unlike the remakes, these games have a time machine linking them. In a meta-perspective, these are also the most glitch-ridden games and were cursed to die because of their internal battery. An in-game explanation could be that the time machine destabilized the universe--all the glitches are manifestations of this, and ultimately led to the universe's destruction (i.e., internal battery dying)

FrLg/RSE--->DPPt/HgSs--->BW->B2W2
Major events: Averted Time Machine crisis/Switched Orbs

This macro-verse is more defined on what didn't happen. In terms of the underlying mechanics of the universe, Pokemon were granted unique abilities and their genetic structure differed (reflecting the IVs). While Mega Evolution didn't happen, I think that Primal Reversion still existed, but its existence was lost to history. Of course, the only time it could have been unveiled by Aqua/Magma, they switched the orbs and the knowledge of Primal Reversion remained lost.

What I find most interesting about this macroverse is how much Kalos is affected by the loss of Mega Evolution. Presumably, Sycamore didn't become a prominent researcher, and even if he did, he wouldn't have sent the XY gang on their adventure. Lysandre wouldn't have been so influenced by his family's history, and even if he still somehow believed the world was greedy and unable to share, he would not have the means to achieve his plan. Secondly, who knows if Sycamore and Lysandre would have even met--Sycamore was Lysandre's mentor, but would he have been his mentor had he not researched Mega Evolution? If Lysandre didn't study under Sycamore, would he have made Lysandre Labs? What would that mean in terms of Kalos' technological development?

Origins/ORAS--->XY
Major event: The Ultimate Weapon

Not really much to say, since this is the current generation. While people may have originally considered Origins to be a second-tier canon, the events in it has more credibility now that we know that Mega Evolution resulted in an alternate universe. For the purpose of organizing these macro-verses, I would definitely include the events of Origins.

also the best universe in that it kills off the character derailment of FrLg/HgSs!Giovanni

----------------------

Now, I only sorted games based on what macro-verse I think they fit in, but that doesn't mean I don't think the Johto/Sinnoh/Unova events didn't happen in the third macro-verse in some form, its just that we don't have any games to place them in. Of course, for the RGBY--->GSC, I don't think the Unova events happened since my theory assumes the macro-verse collapsed on itself around the GSC-era.

Agreed, this all seems pretty likely. I wouldn't be surprised if they remake Kanto and Johto just so that they fit into the timeline, I assume Sinnoh and Unova remakes will fit in with this new timeline. And I agree with Origins being a part of it, definitely seems very likely. Overall, while a cheap way to get out of explaining Mega Evolution after the mess XY made of its lore, ultimately this may be an awesome development for the series as a whole.

I'm curious, how do you think they made a mess of the Mega Evolution lore? It seems pretty easy to follow, especially when combined with the Primal Reversion lore, since Mega Rayquaza is tied into both.

Spoiler

AZ creates the Ultimate Weapon using sacrificial Pokémon, combined with the energy of Xerneas and/or Yveltal. He uses this to revive Floette, then to end the Kalos War.

The UW's blast irradiates regular rocks and stones with the souls of the sacrificial Pokémon as well the murdered trainers/soldiers presumably fighting on the battlefields, turning them into Mega Stones (Pokémon) and Key Stones (humans).

The physical force of the blast presumably sends the stones flying to all corners of the world, explaining their presence in Origins' Kanto and ORAS' Hoenn.

The aftermath then leaves AZ and Floette both immortal and they part, tragically. The blast also dislodges massive amounts of natural energy from deep within the Earth, where it swells up in Hoenn.

Kyogre and Groudon absorb this energy and go Primal, until Rayquaza shuts them down, attracted by the Mega/Key stones that were hailing on Hoenn like meteorites. (Considering the blast from the UW actually reaches into space before coming back down in the X/Y cut-scenes, it's very possible they were ricocheted into space and fell back to Earth, making them true meteorites.)

Presumably during this time, the Tower of Mastery and Mega Evolution was discovered in Kalos, while the world was being wracked by Primal Kyogre and Primal Groudon's fury. This is around the same time that the Anistar Sundial is built, and due to Sycamore's noting of it being similar to the Mega Ring ("The Mega Ring works in a similar way to how this object over here works. It's an object that changes sunlight into a mysterious light.") it can be theorized that the survivors of AZ's War carved the sundial out of a massive Key Stone or Mega Stone and erected it as a memorial for the fallen.

1,000 years later (2,000 years Before Kanto, or BK) more, much larger Key/Mega stones (or actual meteors this time?) hail down from the sky, creating Sootopolis, debunking the long-accepted theory that it was the mouth of a dormant volcano. This causes a crack in the Earth (the core of Hoenn under the Cave of Origin where you catch the Primal Weather Beast), and more natural energy came pouring out, leading to another brawl.

Rayquaza comes down yet again, and this time reacts to the meteorites in Sootopolis and Mega Evolves by eating them. AZ witnesses this and says that Rayquaza is delta (or change) and that it was formed by the bond of humans and Pokémon. This implies that AZ not only knows about Mega Evolution but has probably mastered its intricacies as well, giving more weight to Kalos already being trained in it.

Another 1,000 years of peace follow this and now we're at 1,000 BK. The Draconids (Zinnia's people) foretell of another meteor shower, one that could potentially destroy us all and they create a plan to summon Rayquaza once more.

Apparently it took them 1,000 years to get someone to revive Kyogre (AS) or Groudon (OR) to attract Rayquaza, and when we f'd that plan up, Zinnia resorted to stealing all the known Keystones in Hoenn (Brendan/May's, Wally's, Maxie/Archie's, Courtney/Matt's) except yours, Steven's and Lisia's for strange, unknown reasons. You'd think more power would be wanted in this case...

While Brendan/May are discovering Mega Evolution in Hoenn, a much younger Sycamore is probably finishing up his training as a Mega Evolution user, most likely alongside Diantha and/or Lysandre, under Gurkinn. He then leaves to Kanto to study under Prof. Rowan, who is in Kanto with Prof. Oak and his assistant Dawn/Lucas.

In present-day, while quite a few people can use Mega Evolutions (Brendan, May, Wally, Steven, Maxie, Archie, Matt, Courtney, Zinnia, Lisia, Serena, Calem, Gurkinn, Korrina, Lysandre, Diantha) it is still not very common or widely known, so aside from the ancient Mega Evolution Successors, Draconids and Sootopolitans, much of the knowledge behind why Mega Evolution exists is gone.

This leads to Sycamore to erroneously conclude that Kalos is the only region to report Mega Evolutions. And that it is a new kind of evolution (which, in comparison to the billions of years of age that the Earth has, it is very much extremely new...). Although, considering that he has full knowledge of what is needed for Mega Evolution when met in Coumarine City and knows about AZ and Floette's history at the Player's Parade, as well as being a Professor, and therefore having contact with all the other regional professors, this could just be misdirection on his part in-universe to give the player a mission (as there was no way Sycamore foresaw Team Flare and Lysandre intervening in our journey, and Prof. Birch would undoubtedly study his child's Mega Evolved Pokémon and share his findings with the other professors).

So in conclusion, Mega Stones and Key Stones are like the Soul Dew, just with other Pokémon's souls inside of them besides just a Latios like in the 5th movie...