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SwSh There are petitions about Gamefreak fixing the 'Galar Pokedex' thing

your last sentence changed nothing. i saw it. it was there. and as i had said: you'd be surprised how many tech companies (and esp gaming companies) do not follow "best practices."
Thats fair, you just could have said this in the first place without the sassy retort lol. I had edited that last sentence in, which is why I pointed it out.
And I am well aware that many companies (my own included) don’t always follow best practices. I was just commenting on it for those wouldn’t know otherwise.
 
There are legit modelers on Twitter showing the models side by side, if the models were really remade, then Sw/Sh Gyarados's whiskers would've been curvier than 3DS Gyarados's whiskers, which clearly isn't the case.
why would the whiskers have to be curvier? why would there have to be demonstrable differences for them not be the same model? it's Gyarados; i think at this point the team knows what it looks like. and as i had already said: they can simply had remade them.....the same as they had.

consider: i put on a table in front of you two cubes covered in fabric. one has been draped in red and the other blue. now, are these the same? okay, you point out the differences in color. i refine the question: are the shapes the same? yes. they're both cubes. i ask one final question: ignoring the difference in fabric color, are these identical? you answer yes. i remove the fabric. one cube is a "standard" cube (you know, the kind that just has plain squares for faces); the other is made up of a variety of shapes and polygons. now replace all of this with models and textures. you understand now? like, without seeing the actual assets in the files, you're simply guessing.
 
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but like, players value different things. for me a smaller roster that resulted in higher-quality animations means.....little to nothing. there are players that say "the graphics can be garbage but you know what i can have every pokemon and so that's fine." some players might be happy that a smaller roster might mean not seeing Tentacool every generation. there isn't like an equivalent trade-off here.

hell, there's even further to go with that like still not knowing the number of Pokemon available. finding out that the dex is 200 or 700 will certainly change people's opinions regarding Game Freak's decision. and the games are going to be datamined anyways, so that doesn't really matter. and then on top of that, i was not saying the models would've been made to be better since they reworked them; i was simply saying that without looking in the files themselves, there's no way you're going to be able to just eyeball that the models are the same.
 
why would the whiskers have to be curvier? why would there have to be demonstrable differences for them not be the same model? it's Gyarados; i think at this point the team knows what it looks like. and as i had already said: they can simply had remade them.....the same as they had.

consider: i put on a table in front of you two cubes covered in fabric. one has been draped in red and the other blue. now, are these the same? okay, you point out the differences in color. i refine the question: are the shapes the same? yes. they're both cubes. i ask one final question: ignoring the difference in fabric color, are these identical? you answer yes. i remove the fabric. one cube is a "standard" cube (you know, the kind that just has plain squares for faces); the other is made up of a variety of shapes and polygons. now replace all of this with models and textures. you understand now? like, without seeing the actual assets in the files, you're simply guessing.
We have seen the models for Vaporeon from both 3ds and switch match exactly, they even share the exact same amount of polygons. It's just too difficult to believe they remade the models in the exact same way. Not even a polygon was changed. And even if this was the case (in a parallel universe where evidence does not exist), why would they choose to recreate the same exact models if they had the chance to go back and made new ones? It just makes no sense, sorry.
 
why would the whiskers have to be curvier? why would there have to be demonstrable differences for them not be the same model? it's Gyarados; i think at this point the team knows what it looks like. and as i had already said: they can simply had remade them.....the same as they had.
First off, there's no point whatsoever to remake a model the exact same way and secondly, it's next to impossible to remake it the same exact way. That model was imported from the 3DS games, it's undeniable. The whiskers still look like a bunch of thick sticks stuck together rather than one smooth curl, that's clearly Gyarados's 3DS model.

Here's a video to prove that fact:


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9_0b0sTkYI
 
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There is a good difference between strings of data and models.
Okay, but you said "program", which is clearly more relevant to putting in data.
the more there is to program,
Besides, these models shouldn't be any harder to deal with. Switch models can be ripped onto PCs and edited the same as the 3DS models. The LGPE models look identical to the 3DS ones, down to the skeleton. And there wasn't any trouble using Hau's animations on Hop's model.
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and copying all that data is mainly used as a failsafe way to not make the games crash or break if someone purposely hacks them, like for example trying to import unavailable Pokémon to LGPE by bypassing the locks and stuff.
In addition to swiftgallade's point that making hacking safe wouldn't be Game Freak's priority, the game would still have an error because it wouldn't have a model to load for that Pokemon. Unless they went to the trouble of including all models in anyways-and I seriously doubt they care more about hackers being able to do so safely than they do letting players transfer Pokemon.
Also, at times it can be risky to remove chunks of data, and there have been cases of corruptions in the games because the devs removed something that kept things together. So, it’s usually better to import data that will simply be disabled than it is to remove something without knowing what it’s going to affect.
Pokemon are defined as a set of attributes-learnset, base stats, etc. The code that defines the actual effects of these attributes is stored in other sections. That's why Metronome can call a move that a Pokemon doesn't know, and why moves like Simple Beam, Soak, and Entrainment work. And even if the code had any specific reason to check what species a Pokemon was, the Pokemon itself wouldn't need to exist. If you ask a computer "Does Pikachu's species=Zeraora", every trait of Zeraora wouldn't need to be defined-it would just recognize that, no, Pikachu's species isn't Zeraora, and return false.

Also, your original point was that with more Pokemon, there's more to program, and so removing Pokemon was a good thing-now you're arguing that removing Pokemon from the code would be too much unnecessary work. That doesn't exactly make the dex removal sound any better.
 
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With all those assets copied from the 3DS games into the Switch games, it really doesn't make any sense to remove half of the Pokémon. If Sword and Shield was another generation on the 3DS, maybe that would have made more sense. But their jumping from handhelds into the console competing against the Playstation 4. The Switch game could probably hold 4,000 Pokémon and five regions if they want to max out the space on the card. The Ice Climbers in Super Smash Bros. couldn't work in the 3DS, but they worked in the Gamecube, Wii, Wii U and Switch. They were only cut from the Wii U for compatibility with the 3DS version. The consoles have always been superior to the handhelds, and every generation of consoles were a step up to the previous gen. If they are worried about when there becomes too many Pokémon for a console to handle, going from the 3DS to the Switch is not the time.
 
Also, "It's their game" is the lamest excuse ever. A business is expected to do what the consumer wants, that's how it succeeds in the first place. This goes double for video-games and there are many examples of games doing what their fans want and being successful at it, Splatoon 2 allowing Octolings to be playable, Breath of the Wild being the Zelda game that most fans wanted for a very long time, Super Mario Odyssey returning to the open sandbox-style because many were dissatisfied with the linear level designs from the Galaxy games, even Smash Bros. Ultimate including every single character from the previous games, I could go on, but listing every single example would make this post way too long.
 
I fail to see how using the same models and animations for every character and old Pokémon is a problem. Is not easier to do that than make new models and animations? I don’t care if Gyarados has the same model and animations as previous games.
 
I fail to see how using the same models and animations for every character and old Pokémon is a problem. Is not easier to do that than make new models and animations? I don’t care if Gyarados has the same model and animations as previous games.
It would never have been an issue... if they didn’t cut Pokemon, using animations, and ‘models have been made from scratch’ as the excuse.
 
It would never have been an issue... if they didn’t cut Pokemon, using animations, and ‘models have been made from scratch’ as the excuse.
You got there. ALTHOUGH, what if the reason for the national dex removal is because the dynamax and gigantamax forms take up a tot of space? It’s a huge (pun intended) difference from gen 7 where the totems are not that much bigger than members of the same species.
 
ALTHOUGH, what if the reason for the national dex removal is because the dynamax and gigantamax forms take up a tot of space? It’s a huge (pun intended) difference from gen 7 where the totems are not that much bigger than members of the same species.
I don’t think bigger models=more space since the models would be the same as the smaller ones, just increased in scale.

Even if the Dynamax models were separate, and double the memory of regular models they’d take up around 2 GB, a fourth of the smallest Switch cartridge of 8GB.
 
  • Space isn't the reason they cut Pokemon. It's mathematically proven nonsense.
  • Modeling isn't the reason they cut Pokemon. It's proven that they use the same models from the 3DS games. We already have people here pointing out that Creatures made those models with the Switch and higher resolutions in mind and that the models were downscaled for the 3DS. We can also tell that had they made all new models from scratch, the models could look close, but they wouldn't look identical (which - aside from texturing, they do). Eagle-eyed animators have demonstrated that for us all.
  • The animation isn't the reason they cut Pokemon. Not inherently, and definitely not for a few generations to come. There are definitely new animations already and (I'm sure) in development now, but with pre-established skeleton rigs and especially given these renders, the animation work for any given Pokemon is at most 1 week of non-consecutive work for one animator, including back and forth between actually animating and getting approval. IIRC, Dauntless took about this long with animating their monster Gnasher according to their GDC panel, and that had to include perfecting tells and wind-up times for players to be able to dodge - something Pokemon doesn't need to worry about with a turn-based combat system. With a week per Pokemon and as few as 20 animators, the full gen 8 national Dex could be given a full overhaul of their animations in just over a year. In reality, it would take even less time than that, because most animations in the Sword and Shield footage are tweaks of older animations.

The reasoning that makes the most sense is one that isn't very glamorous: They didn't want to. The prospect from a statistical perspective, was probably daunting, while higher-ups made the clerical decision to not buy more out-sourcing or hires to make up for that. They weighed that cost versus their perception of the numbers they think the new games will gross, and - probably while looking at other monster collector games that have always curated their rosters with every title, decided that the new titles wouldn't lose out on enough purchases to justify continuing their transfer policy.
It's a very capitalistic decision. One I immensely dislike, but one I understand exists.
But in response, using social capital, like boycotting the games, tweeting tags, and signing and sharing petitions is the only way consumers can express dissatisfaction with any hope of efficacy. That's the only power that the market distributes to us as the consumer group, and - for responses to media - that's still effective.
 
  • Space isn't the reason they cut Pokemon. It's mathematically proven nonsense.
  • Modeling isn't the reason they cut Pokemon. It's proven that they use the same models from the 3DS games. We already have people here pointing out that Creatures made those models with the Switch and higher resolutions in mind and that the models were downscaled for the 3DS. We can also tell that had they made all new models from scratch, the models could look close, but they wouldn't look identical (which - aside from texturing, they do). Eagle-eyed animators have demonstrated that for us all.
  • The animation isn't the reason they cut Pokemon. Not inherently, and definitely not for a few generations to come. There are definitely new animations already and (I'm sure) in development now, but with pre-established skeleton rigs and especially given these renders, the animation work for any given Pokemon is at most 1 week of non-consecutive work for one animator, including back and forth between actually animating and getting approval. IIRC, Dauntless took about this long with animating their monster Gnasher according to their GDC panel, and that had to include perfecting tells and wind-up times for players to be able to dodge - something Pokemon doesn't need to worry about with a turn-based combat system. With a week per Pokemon and as few as 20 animators, the full gen 8 national Dex could be given a full overhaul of their animations in just over a year. In reality, it would take even less time than that, because most animations in the Sword and Shield footage are tweaks of older animations.
The reasoning that makes the most sense is one that isn't very glamorous: They didn't want to. The prospect from a statistical perspective, was probably daunting, while higher-ups made the clerical decision to not buy more out-sourcing or hires to make up for that. They weighed that cost versus their perception of the numbers they think the new games will gross, and - probably while looking at other monster collector games that have always curated their rosters with every title, decided that the new titles wouldn't lose out on enough purchases to justify continuing their transfer policy.
It's a very capitalistic decision. One I immensely dislike, but one I understand exists.
But in response, using social capital, like boycotting the games, tweeting tags, and signing and sharing petitions is the only way consumers can express dissatisfaction with any hope of efficacy. That's the only power that the market distributes to us as the consumer group, and - for responses to media - that's still effective.
Guess what? They are gonna sell 15 milions copies (if not more).
They choosed to ignore this protest and (even more irritating) they didn't even bother to justify the cut properly. TPCi is huge, if this is how they choosed to handle their games, there's really nothing you can do. They know the games will sell no matter what. They just know and the way they are ignoring the biggest protest in their history is a proof they feel safe.
 
Please note: The thread is from 4 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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