Things you liked + disliked about XY's plot

[Dieter]

And something fairly different, but related, are the box legendaries. They're glorified batteries, where the could have been so much more. Especially considering death is important in the whole circle of life deal. If you'd let Xerneas do whatever the fuck it wanted, without restraint, it will likely cause the problems Lysandre foresaw. And you can't just have Yveltal rampaging either, if you don't want the region to become a barren wasteland. But in the end, they don't add anything to the plot.

So I guess actually my main issue with XY is that the plot elements don't come together in a meaningful way.

 

[Esserise]

Maybe the issue is that the problems Lysandre sees are fairly abstract to begin with, but this isn't helped by the fact you don't even see any of these problems in-game, as I mentioned. Part of Lysandre's motivation is of course preventing Kalos even getting to the point of war over shortage, but there is nothing that even implies that might ever happen. It's the opposite almost. I just found another example of this, despite the Pokeball Factory being robbed, there won't be a shortage, according to Malva (as newscaster). Sure, saying that is all fine and well, possibly as prevention of mass-panic or people buying them in bulk and hoarding, but you can continue to buy as many as you want after. It would have driven Lysandre's point home much more if there actually were no more pokeballs sold for part of the plot. At the same time, having your friend group share balls with each other would already illustrate the alternative Shauna and the rival later pose during the confrontation with Lysandre.

Agreed here. The setting of Pokémon is waaay too lollipops and happy times to believe Lysandre's resource crisis narrative. Conceptually, I like everything about the Team Flare plot, but the big problem to me is that it just doesn't really fit the games' world. (The Poké Ball theft and what they could have done with that being something my mind always loops back to, and another thing that always irked me is what you mentioned about how the old guru just happens to find another Mega Ring lying around for Calem/Serena.)

 

[Boss1708]

I am increasingly starting to hold XY's post game Looker Episode closer and closer to my heart. It's very human and touching tbh.

Also, something funny: before playing XY, I actually didn't know who Looker was. I had skipped Platinum and while I did play BW1, I didn't reach the postgame, where Looker appeared. So initially I had the impression that Looker was some new, XY exclusive character xD

 

[Esserise]

I love most of the Looker Bureau, though I have to side-eye the "aww, the cackling genocidal murderer has a heart" bits.

But at least Xerosic gives up and turns himself in, unlike Colress in the Unova games, who's just as bad. The only justifiable reason for letting him run free is that his battle theme is a fucking banger.

 

[Boss1708]

I kinda really like how Colress is portrayed in BW2, tbh. He remains completely GREY. He doesn't turn himself in, because he doesn't consider himself guilty of anything. He is convinced that drawing out Pokémon's true potential, is some sort of greater good, or a scientific breakthrough, that's larger than what people may consider good or bad.

I do like how Xerosic does realize what he's done, though. I just find Colress's neutral stance quite refreshing for Pokémon. He is a different kind of Villain.

 

[Esserise]

And something fairly different, but related, are the box legendaries. They're glorified batteries, where the could have been so much more. Especially considering death is important in the whole circle of life deal. If you'd let Xerneas do whatever the fuck it wanted, without restraint, it will likely cause the problems Lysandre foresaw. And you can't just have Yveltal rampaging either, if you don't want the region to become a barren wasteland. But in the end, they don't add anything to the plot.

Personally, I don't mind this too much - I'm not really sure what I'd have them do in the plot if I were to make that sort of change, and sometimes I think it's nice to scale back a bit and do something simpler. The relatively low fanfare around the mascots is one of the nostalgic aspects of X & Y that I quite like, reminding me as it does of the earlier Legendary Pokémon that weren't as heavily foregrounded in the plot as Kyogre, Dialga, Kyurem, etc., and I like that approach to Legendary Pokémon - as creatures that feel more earthly than godlike, and Xerneas and Yveltal have that feeling, in my opinion. They're not these overwhelmingly powerful beings that have to be summoned from the depths or from some other dimension, and they're not as high-concept as the Tao trio. They're just very elusive animals that hide themselves away in hibernation in between periods of activity. They're powerful enough to where their abilities affect a wide area, but messing with them alone won't necessarily bring about an apocalypse, hence the need for the ultimate weapon. It would have been very easy to make "the Pokémon of Life and Death" into more godlike figures, and I appreciate the avoidance of that instinct - I think their generally passive and habitual existence better embodies the natural cycle of life and death.

I also just think it was neat to see them do something a little different by focusing the lore more on a mythic event instead of a mythic creature.

I kinda really like how Colress is portrayed in BW2, tbh. He remains completely GREY. He doesn't turn himself in, because he doesn't consider himself guilty of anything. He is convinced that drawing out Pokémon's true potential, is some sort of greater good, or a scientific breakthrough, that's larger than what people may consider good or bad.

I do think he's an interesting character, and it certainly makes sense for him to think he's above the law because he sees himself as in pursuit of something greater - I just don't like that he gets to run off and decide his own fate without any argument or resistance.

 

[Dieter]

Pokemon definitely has a very optimistic, might I say idealistic, world and I don't think that's an issue. There's plenty of dystopian fiction across all kinds of media, so if you prefer that, it's definitely out there. But I feel like in a way XY tried to avoid any kind of nastiness, besides implied genocide. Previous games had a feeling of imminent danger, if that makes sense?

Team Rocket might in a sense be the least ambition, but they are very present throughout the narrative in both Kanto and Johto. When Magma/Aqua unleashes their legendary, parts of the overworld change and Sootopolis goes in lockdown. Team Plasma blows up an entire lake, which stays damaged until its legendary returns. Plasma has N, who is chosen by one of the legendaries. And that's not to say these plots are flawless, RSE I think could have done more especially, but the danger these teams bring feel convincing.

And I think Team Flare's 'goofiness' is part of their charm, cause these people are pretty out of touch with the world. All teams have an amount of goofiness to them, especially the grunts. But they have relatively little bite.

And they could have focused more on greed, rather than an actual resource shortage - of many commodities there's enough to go around, but selfish people refuse to share - that sort of thing.

I think their generally passive and habitual existence better embodies the natural cycle of life and death.

I also just think it was neat to see them do something a little different by focusing the lore more on a mythic event instead of a mythic creature.

Same, tbh. They don't have to be the avatars of life and death, the way Dialga and Palkia are the avatars of time and space. But their presence in Kalos is incredibly limited. Compare it to Ho-oh and Lugia, smilarly powerful legendaries, who technically don't reside in Johto anymore. But they can be encountered, they're said to roam the world, there are locations associated with them.

Even saying something like 'Geosenge was the original home of Xerneas/Yveltal" could already have made a difference. And the original war story doesn't ever mention their involvement in any way either, so why does Lysandre even need them, if the weapon on its own was apparently powerful enough to lay waste to an entire region?

 

[Almonds]

One of the biggest things I didn't like about XY was the almost nonexistent role of the champion, Diantha.

One of the biggest things I liked about XY's plot was exploring the history of the region. Lore of the pokemon world is always interesting.

 

[Esserise]

And the original war story doesn't ever mention their involvement in any way either, so why does Lysandre even need them, if the weapon on its own was apparently powerful enough to lay waste to an entire region?

In the post-game, Sycamore does hypothesize that they actually were used in the weapon by AZ, and that it was their power being channeled through it which created the Mega Stones. I suppose they were trying to keep the exact origins of Mega Evolution a "mystery" up until you beat the game, however, I would not say that this was elegantly executed - I don't think Mega Evolution is really enough of a presence throughout the main plot (largely vanishing as it does after leaving Shalour City) in order for that long-term payoff to feel rewarding, and it does sort of add an extra element to the big war tale long after we've already passed it. (Not to mention that the guy in Anistar who knows about Xerneas and Yveltal tells a second story about them being active during the war - he does say that it might just be a metaphor, but again, in practice it just sort of adds another layer of confusion.)

 

[Dieter]

In the post-game, Sycamore does hypothesize that they actually were used in the weapon by AZ, and that it was their power being channeled through it which created the Mega Stones. I suppose they were trying to keep the exact origins of Mega Evolution a "mystery" up until you beat the game, however, I would not say that this was elegantly executed - I don't think Mega Evolution is really enough of a presence throughout the main plot (largely vanishing as it does after leaving Shalour City) in order for that long-term payoff to feel rewarding, and it does sort of add an extra element to the big war tale long after we've already passed it. (Not to mention that the guy in Anistar who knows about Xerneas and Yveltal tells a second story about them being active during the war - he does say that it might just be a metaphor, but again, in practice it just sort of adds another layer of confusion.)

Fair, I'd forgotten about that. But I guess that shows how little of an impression it made. And more lore post-game is not an issue, but a throwaway line in a singular encounter doesn't really do that justice... AZ having abused the power of the legendary for his own selfish desires and causing destruction, with him regretting this afterwards might have been better?

One of the biggest things I didn't like about XY was the almost nonexistent role of the champion, Diantha.

I'll admit I have no qualms with her not being that terribly active in the plot, she's a busy woman after all. And her encounters do tell a lot about her as a person. But for a famous film star, she has incredibly little presence. I'd almost say she'd have made a better champion for BW2, where they could have introduced her in the PokeStar Studios. But as far as I remember, she isn't found on any billboards in Kalos, or posters, or anything the like. She could have had like, a PR video or something

But I have a similar issue with Tierno, who has 'nothing' to do in Kalos. Like, sure he wants a pokemon dance team, but Kalos doesn't offer any venues for that. I might not love the Musical, but it would have been fitting for him. Or anything like it. He just doesn't really get to show his ambitions, unlike the other friends

 

[Esserise]

But as far as I remember, she isn't found on any billboards in Kalos, or posters, or anything the like.

Well...

Spoiler

Not that I disagree with your overall point.

 

[IncineROAR]

Things I like about XY:
-being the first pseudo 3D Pokemon game
-the scenery was amazing to me, I mean the game looks like crap now in retrospect, but I think the scenery still holds up well
-Mega Evolution: I hated that it was forced down our throats so much to only be scrapped later, but some Pokemon really take on cool forms through the ME method
-that gift Lapras right when we need to surf across water. Every single playthrough, I take that Lapras and teach it Surf and do what I need to to do, then box it for the rest of the game

Things I dislike about XY
-there are many obvious unfinished story elements / game locations. You can tell there were potential plans for future expansion and I wish we would have gotten a "third version" or some sort of DL content to extend out the generation instead of being rushed into Gen VII.
-Diantha is probably the most dull champion that Pokemon will ever have, and has outstripped Lance as the dullest.
-The Looker episode. Can that guy go retire?
-The legendaries had cool designs, but their practicality and presence in the game was minimal at best. Why even bother having them in the game?

 

[Psytrainer]

Liked:

• The fact that we had multiple rivals
• Some characters like Korrina and Emma
• The region's design, especially Mountain Kalos
• First female majority Pokemon League

Disliked:

• How the rivals were actually handled. Four was too many and character development was spread thin as a result.
• The majority of characters were either wasted potential or irrelevant
• How Mega Evolution was implemented
• Most of Team Flare's arc