Things you liked + disliked about XY's plot

[SammyW27]

Literally the worst thing ever. There was no need for her to go to Hoenn since ORAS is no longer a thing. Contest aren't even in Alola. Like what was the point??

The point was leaving the door open just in case they made a special for her like everyone else.

Though it amazes AND appalls me they bought it up only to not do anything with it. Serena being in Contests and having misadventures with Gen 3/AG characters practically wrote itself. They could've made a mini-series of specials out of that...

 

[Antiyonder]

AmourShipping never really bothered me, but I do find inserting Serena into Ash's backstory feels like it's kind of a cheap move to make her seem more important, especially when it's barely made use of. I mean there's no reason she couldn't develop a crush on him in the present without meeting before even the Original Series.

I will always disagree with this. Her trying to find a goal was the point.

Yes, but it could have been illustrated with her trying different things and quitting after a failure. Besides giving her more to do it helps to give her mom's comment later some merit as it's better to show as opposed to telling in a visual medium.

 

[Daenerys]

I remember thinking that it was way too convenient that Serena met Ash in Kanto since the odds of them reuniting after that seemed so infinitesimally small. Also, it didn't make sense to me that Serena even remembered her short encounter with Ash as as kid since she looked like she was only five years old when it happened and I don't think it was realistic for her to remember Ash's face.

 

[Antiyonder]

^^^The coincidence I'm not bothered with, just that the events of the flashback could be in the present day with little to no change to later stories as really not many significant moments require them meeting as 5-7 yrs olds.

 

[Antiyonder]

I don't think that would be a good moral for the writers to insert in the story. Quitting after a failure is not something they'd want to inspire, I suppose.

Didn't stop Sun and Moon writers from having a fanservice episode with kids.

All snarkiness aside, I'd argue that her sticking with her Showcase interest even after failures would kind of be her redeeming herself in that regard.

 

[Antiyonder]

I don't quite get what you're referring to here.

Just that I find it funny that the anime has had numerous moments well sexualizing underage girls, but showing Serena quitting numerous times would be a no-no.

 

[Hidden Mew]

AmourShipping never really bothered me, but I do find inserting Serena into Ash's backstory feels like it's kind of a cheap move to make her seem more important, especially when it's barely made use of. I mean there's no reason she couldn't develop a crush on him in the present without meeting before even the Original Series.

I didn't mind that so much when it just seemed like a gimmick to make Serena stand out more, but I was surprised with how quickly that detail was forgotten. I thought that Ash wouldn't remember their brief encounter in Kanto for most of the series, but I think he remembered it shortly after Serena joined the group.

Yes, but it could have been illustrated with her trying different things and quitting after a failure. Besides giving her more to do it helps to give her mom's comment later some merit as it's better to show as opposed to telling in a visual medium.

As much as I like that episode, Serena's mother saying that she would always give up whenever something becomes too difficult for her, or something along those lines, always seemed odd to me. Nothing about Serena prior to that point indicated that she would quickly give up if something was too hard or that she'd try out different hobbies only to drop them. She hadn't shown any signs of being interested in any goal before Showcases came up and while she hated Ryhorn Racing, she still trained with her mother for years. Having Serena try some goals and then realize that they weren't for her would have given more weight to her mother's statement instead of telling the audience something that didn't quite click with how Serena was presented.

 

[Antiyonder]

As much as I like that episode, Serena's mother saying that she would always give up whenever something becomes too difficult for her, or something along those lines, always seemed odd to me. Nothing about Serena prior to that point indicated that she would quickly give up if something was too hard or that she'd try out different hobbies only to drop them. She hadn't shown any signs of being interested in any goal before Showcases came up and while she hated Ryhorn Racing, she still trained with her mother for years. Having Serena try some goals and then realize that they weren't for her would have given more weight to her mother's statement instead of telling the audience something that didn't quite click with how Serena was presented.

That and sometimes it just feels like her "trying to find her goal" was just an excuse to keep her in the background rather than an artistic decision.

 

[Daenerys]

Tbh, I wasn't convinced that the 40 or so episodes where Serena did nothing other than try an occasional activity were meant to be some big plan by the writing staff to build towards her goal. I always saw it more as the writers not knowing what to do with her aside from using her as shipping bait, so they had her do Pokevision and Poke Puff baking to create the illusion that she was progressing. Then they finally settled on Showcases and incorporated those other activities at the last minute.

Serena managed to do well in the contests in the further saga near the end.

 

[Antiyonder]

^^^Yeah like I inferred with my post it just seems like keeping her inactive was not to eclipses screentime for Ash, the Rocket Trio or Clemont/Bonnie.

Especially when we had a season beforehand where the female companion had the same problem times ten.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Nothing about Serena prior to that point indicated that she would quickly give up if something was too hard or that she'd try out different hobbies only to drop them.

Sihorn Race
Pokévision
Pofflé Contest

These are goals we see her trying and not following after finding it hard. She also decide to meet with her childhood crush on a whim, only to find that he don't remember her after all, and she had no idea what to do after that.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Sihorn Race
Pokévision
Pofflé Contest

These are goals we see her trying and not following after finding it hard. She also decide to meet with her childhood crush on a whim, only to find that he don't remember her after all, and she had no idea what to do after that.

If she actually took part in a Rhyhorn Race, that might have been a good example, but she didn't. It wasn't something she tried once and never did it again. Her mother spent years training her and Serena clearly hated it. It wasn't because it was hard, but because she didn't like it and I always got the implication that her mother was forcing her to become a Rhyhorn simply to live out her glory days again. It wasn't something Serena wanted to do and left home at least in part to avoid becoming a Rhyhorn Racer. She just retained a lot of the lessons despite pretty much hating it from the start.

I think calling Pokevision and the Poke Puff Contests goals are huge stretches. They weren't really treated as something trainers had to work towards along the lines of Gym battles, Contests or even Showcases. They were more like hobbies people could take part in as like a side project, especially Pokevision. While Serena didn't take part in another Poke Puff Contest, I feel like that was because she didn't come across it another one. She still enjoyed the Poke Puff Contest despite not winning and she continued to bake them throughout the rest of the series, so it's not like she gave up on Poke Puff Contests because they were too hard. It's an even stranger claim to make in regards to Poke Vision. Serena only made two Poke Vision videos if I recall correctly, but she actively enjoyed making them, was excited to get another opportunity to make one during the Summer Camp arc and both videos she made were pretty well received in-universe. Shauna and/or Tierno recognized Serena from her Poke Vision video and her group won the Poke Vision challenge at Summer Camp.

Even if I believed that Poke Vision and the Poke Puff Contests were goals, Serena clearly didn't stop doing them because they were hard. She had fun doing them and never indicated that she didn't make more videos or entered into more Poke Puff Contests because they were hard. She stopped doing them because she didn't come across more opportunities to do them before they were incorporated into Showcases. That's another reason why I can't buy into the notion that she dropped them because they were hard. Showcases had elements of Poke Vision and Poke Puff Contests pretty much from the start. She had to use her baking skills multiple times and looking pretty/popular was the basic foundation of Showcases in the first place. If Serena didn't want to make more Poke Vision videos or enter more Poke Puff Contests because they were too hard, then she sure picked a strange goal that combined those two together along with a poor man's Contest appeal round. None of these points really back up the accusation from Serena's mother.

I agree that Serena didn't really know what to do after meeting with Ash though. She just wanted to find him and see if he remembered her, but she didn't have a plan for anything after that.

 

[Antiyonder]

^^^Additionally I would state that while XY got better in giving her screentime the anime as a whole still does tend to by admission of one staff member generally has a character such as Serena as eye candy/tokenism. While Kanto Misty, May and Dawn were also handled better, they still tended to get the shaft from time to time. And I think it's safe to say that at best Serena's upgrade in screeentime was possibly the result of feedback prompting such rather than a creative choice.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

Sihorn Race
Pokévision
Pofflé Contest

These are goals we see her trying and not following after finding it hard. She also decide to meet with her childhood crush on a whim, only to find that he don't remember her after all, and she had no idea what to do after that.

I agree. Except I won't say that she found those things hard. It's just that she didn't like them enough to seriously pursue them which is fair and totally normal? I don't think they deliberately kept her inactive? She was used to showcase all of the new features in the XY games so....

Yes, but it could have been illustrated with her trying different things and quitting after a failure. Besides giving her more to do it helps to give her mom's comment later some merit as it's better to show as opposed to telling in a visual medium.

As above, it's not about her quitting after failing at it. It's about her finding something she is PASSIONATE about. She liked Pokevisions, Poffle Contests and etc but she feels strongly for showcases!

 

[Hidden Mew]

I agree. Except I won't say that she found those things hard. It's just that she didn't like them enough to seriously pursue them which is fair and totally normal? I don't think they deliberately kept her inactive? She was used to showcase all of the new features in the XY games so....

That doesn't make much sense to me either. Admittedly, I think that sounds more reasonable than saying that found PokeVision and Poke Puff Contests too hard, but neither of those sounded like something she could seriously pursue them. They both seemed more like hobbies or something trainers could do on the side along with whatever goal they were actually pursuing.

As above, it's not about her quitting after failing at it. It's about her finding something she is PASSIONATE about. She liked Pokevisions, Poffle Contests and etc but she feels strongly for showcases!

While I agree that Serena was passionate for Showcases, Poke Vision and Poke Puff Contests were basically incorporated into them, so it wasn't like the few things she did prior to becoming a Pokemon Performer were drastically different. Those basically set the foundation for Showcases and they just threw in routines with Pokemon in the attempt of making them stand out more. That's a big reason why I don't see these as different goals when Serena basically did bigger/flashier versions of Poke Vision and Poke Puff Contests in her Showcases.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Even if I believed that Poke Vision and the Poke Puff Contests were goals, Serena clearly didn't stop doing them because they were hard. She had fun doing them and never indicated that she didn't make more videos or entered into more Poke Puff Contests because they were hard.

Maybe, but from her mother's point-of-view, those could be seen as proof of how quick she was to give up on something.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Maybe, but from her mother's point-of-view, those could be seen as proof of how quick she was to give up on something.

Was Serena's mother even aware her Poke Vision videos or entering a Poke Puff Contest? I'm not sure if either of those things came up during the episode and the focus was on Serena trying to tell her mother about becoming a Performer. I also still don't really see how Serena gave up on them, especially when they basically were the foundation of Showcases. Aria was first introduced as the most popular trainer on Poke Vision before she suddenly became Kalos Queen. She basically does Poke Vision for an audience in the form of Showcases with the occasional Poke Puff Contest thrown into the mix. That doesn't really sound like she gave up on them when she just does them in a different way.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

Admittedly, I think that sounds more reasonable than saying that found PokeVision and Poke Puff Contests too hard, but neither of those sounded like something she could seriously pursue them.

They made a pokesomelier a thing they could easily make her a pokeworld equivalent of an instamodel if they wanted to lol.

I have zero idea what you are on anymore. The point is, she tried pokevisions and poffin making, and they all led her to her eventual goal where she could do all of those in the showcases.

 

[Hidden Mew]

They made a pokesomelier a thing they could easily make her a pokeworld equivalent of an instamodel if they wanted to lol.

As poorly thought out as being a Pokemon Connoisseur was, at least there was a ranking system for it to indicate that was something trainers could improve on. Granted, they did a pretty poor job of showing how one climbs the ranks, but that was more than just making popular videos or being a Pokemon version of an instagram model.

I have zero idea what you are on anymore. The point is, she tried pokevisions and poffin making, and they all led her to her eventual goal where she could do all of those in the showcases.

I'm saying that those aren't distinct/different goals Serena could have pursued. They weren't treated as such and there was nothing about either Poke Vision or Poke Puff Contests that implied trainers could focus entirely on just being the best in those departments. There wasn't something akin to the Pokemon League, Grand Festival or Master Class Showcase where the best of the best could compete with each other in those areas. They were more along the lines of one off competitions, despite how Serena did Poke Vision twice. It would be like calling a Pokemon Bug Catching Contest a goal Serena could realistically pursue.

They weren't different goals Serena experimented with before finding something she was truly passionate about. They were basically the foundation of Showcases. Stuff like dressing with her Pokemon and putting on performances isn't too far removed from what she did in Poke Vision videos, especially her first one. The only difference is that it is less staged simply because she has to perform quickly for a live audience instead of editing a video together. She used her Poke Puff baking skills a couple of times, including once where she just put on a show while baking, and they top it off with a water down version of Contest appeal rounds. That's why I don't see this as Serena trying out different goals before she found one that she liked. She already liked Poke Vision and baking, so the writers just combined them together in a fancy competition that was specifically designed to appeal to Serena.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

I think you are way too fixated on what they specifically showed in the anime. Just because they didn't show how competitive making Poke Visions could get doesn't mean that its not possible to be able to be the best at it? My point is that if the writers wanted to make it a thing they could! The reason why Serena settled on being a performer though is that it encompasses all these things she liked.

And what is with the obsession with competition? There's no competition for Misty's goal? Nor Brock's goal?