Thoughts on CoTDs in general

[matt0044]

Pros:

1.They offer us some insight on the Pokemon World in an interesting way at times.

2. Now and then, they have nice personalities along with their Pokemon like Katharine and her Gothita.

Cons:

1. They often waste time that COULD have been used to develop our main characters and maybe an overarching storyline.

2. Their episode follow a formula that I think doesn't bear repeating since everyone here practically knows it by heart.

I think I've made my point. How about you guys?

 

[Robo-Floatzel]

Honestly, I find them annoying, especially in the dub where they all have the exact same voices, not to mention much of the time they are goody-two-shoes type characters that have basically no personality or flaws to them that make them human, they're often boring and robotic much of the time, not to mention they're getting old and tiring at this point since the anime has been using the same formula for over 17 years, and it's beyond stale at this point...

 

[Karamazov]

I like having people require help from our heroes, especially when they're not Trainers on a Badge quest. It shows us how other people in the world work, as you said. My issue is that the anime overuses this formula way too much. I don't mind that the time is being taken away from our heroes and all, I do mind that the time's being wasted on formulaic story-telling. And honestly, I feel that they could stand to re-use COTDs a few times to make them more memorable, and make the world feel a little more close-knit.

I know, time to talk about BW! I know, so shocking. One of the things I liked about early BW (and I'm sure this applies to other sagas; BW's just fresher in my mind) is how we got a lot of episodes focused on wild Pokemon (Cottonee, Sewaddle, Venipede), Bianca, or twists on the formula. (The Trubbish ep, where Ash turns against the teacher to help the students; the Sandile ep just used the COTDs to get to Sandile, Oshawott, and building on the Ash/Iris dynamic.)

tl;dr: I agree with you that it's a nice, world-building (and oftentimes, character-building, for our heroes and their Pokemon) experience. It's just overused and often gets lazy.

 

[PockyAddict]

Honestly, I find them annoying, especially in the dub where they all have the exact same voices, not to mention much of the time they are goody-two-shoes type characters that have basically no personality or flaws to them that make them human, they're often boring and robotic much of the time, not to mention they're getting old and tiring at this point since the anime has been using the same formula for over 17 years, and it's beyond stale at this point...

This i agree, the worst ones are the ones that did'nt even need ash and friends to help thier dumb problems.

 

[G50]

COTDs have their good points and bad points. I think there's been too many of them in general. Some of my favorite COTDs have had good battles against Ash and his friends in an episode. When new Pokemon are introduced in-anime, COTD's have different ways of showing them off. Sometimes there's repeated ways of how a new Pokemon is introduced, though I don't find it to be too much for my taste.

Personalities aren't always the best, and some can be a bit over the top. I like how COTDs do have some good personalities as well.

 

[Musashi]

When you have a show that's be running continuously with no real breaks (except for the Porygon incident) for over 15 years, you need to stretch things out somehow. CotD are a necessary evil, otherwise things would get boring with just the same main cast all the time.

 

[matt0044]

When you have a show that's be running continuously with no real breaks (except for the Porygon incident) for over 15 years, you need to stretch things out somehow. CotD are a necessary evil, otherwise things would get boring with just the same main cast all the time.

Because we can't spend more time fleshing out the characters we already have so they're more interesting. Perish the thought.

 

[Musashi]

Because we can't spend more time fleshing out the characters we already have so they're more interesting. Perish the thought.

When DP did that a lot of people complained that there was too much "filler". I mean there's only so much you can flesh out of characters in a kids show. They're not exactly meant to be complex. Do you seriously want the writers to write nothing but plot episodes after plot episode with no breaks at all for however long the show continues? I don't think you understand we need some CotD filler stuff to take a break from things.

 

[matt0044]

Because we can't spend more time fleshing out the characters we already have so they're more interesting. Perish the thought.

When DP did that a lot of people complained that there was too much "filler". I mean there's only so much you can flesh out of characters in a kids show. They're not exactly meant to be complex. Do you seriously want the writers to write nothing but plot episodes after plot episode with no breaks at all for however long the show continues? I don't think you understand we need some CotD filler stuff to take a break from things.

Re: bolded part: Avatar/Korra says hello. Honestly, I feel that the character could be more developed had they be from the get-go.

And yes, a few breaks from the plot is good every now and then but even then, they can benefit from fleshing out the main characters and getting us to really like them. Though, in my opinion, that's something the show could improve on.

 

[CrystaI]

Dragonball series runs like +500 episodes without a bunch of CoTD. All the characters in the story are plot-relevant, so there is really not any "rubbish characters" that you can eliminate without influencing the plot.

Well, I know Pokemon cannot compare to Dragonball series, where target audience demographic domain is different, the manner and the style of how story are told is also different, and even the genre of the show is different. It is just something incomparable.
But, what I wanted to say is if other long-running show can do an excellent story without using such an enormous amount of CoTD, why Pokemon cannot? Besides, there is too few episodes that focus on Ash and his co.'s character developments. If the anime focus itself in deeper character development, then the show really don't need such large amount of useless CoTD, and they won't be so bland and plain because then the CoTD will also be used in the character development process of Ash and co.
And also, other than the usual CoTD, they should have shown more about Gym Leaders as well. Many of the Gym Leaders of the anime don't appear anywhere outside gym battle, which somehow makes the Gym Leader also a CoTD, where it is a bit boring.

Currently, the existence of many CoTD is a bit annoying. Especially those that Ash pump into just by accident, stating their own little problem to a stranger immediately upon knowing, Ash then poke his nose into other people's business, but really those are none of his business and don't need his help, and where Ash's existence give that CoTD trouble by letting TRio want to steal his/her Pokemon, then Ash beat TRio up and save the stolen Pokemon of the day. TV Tokyo, or I should say scriptwriter(s) of the Pokemon anime, don't you have any other way to utilize the CoTD into making a better plot?

I don't wanted to see such CoTD so often again in XY. Just once in a blue moon is fine, but not like a "standard fixture plot" that will definitely happen between every gym battle, and not for two or more consecutive episodes.

 

[Muur]

I agree with the 'use older COTD'. Would be interesting. Could even have old rivals and stuff, like when that fat guy had Morisson's voice, should've been Morrison visiting the Declora Islands.

 

[Musashi]

Re: bolded part: Avatar/Korra says hello. Honestly, I feel that the character could be more developed had they be from the get-go.

Are you seriously trying to compare Pokemon to Avatar/Korra? The two shows could not have more different purposes. Pokemon is a show that never has breaks and is made to sell toys and video games, the latter is not.

And no, a few breaks from the plot is good every now and then. Though, in my opinion, that's something the show could improve on.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. I think long running shows need a few plot breaks now and then, especially kids shows.

Dragonball series runs like +500 episodes without a bunch of CoTD. All the characters in the story are plot-relevant, so there is really not any "rubbish characters" that you can eliminate without influencing the plot.

Dragonball is also based on a manga, Pokemon is not. Again, completely different types of shows.

If you guys want a show with lots of interesting character development and plot, then Pokemon isn't it. Never has been, never will be.

 

[matt0044]

Are you seriously trying to compare Pokemon to Avatar/Korra? The two shows could not have more different purposes. Pokemon is a show that never has breaks and is made to sell toys and video games, the latter is not.

That doesn't mean the Pokemon Anime can't or couldn't be as good. I just hate the idea of dismissing a show's potential to be good whether it was made to sell merchandise. But if you want a better comparison, just watch MLP:FiM (or, better yet, see the fandom it spawned) which was made to sell toys but the writers give a crap about storytelling.

We'll have to agree to disagree there. I think long running shows need a few plot breaks now and then, especially kids shows.

Actually I do. I meant to say, "yes, I think a long running show can benefit from breaks from the plot. Though said breaks should be entertaining and shouldn't squander the characters we're meant to follow."

If you guys want a show with lots of interesting character development and plot, then Pokemon isn't it. Never has been, never will be.

And that's a GOOD thing how?

 

[Musashi]

That doesn't mean the Pokemon Anime can't or couldn't be as good. I just hate the idea of dismissing a show's potential to be good whether it was made to sell merchandise. But if you want a better comparison, just watch MLP:FiM (or, better yet, see the fandom it spawned) which was made to sell toys but the writers give a crap about storytelling.

I watch the show. But to be honest I think Pokemon has more compelling plots. FIM is much more about teaching life lessons. Not sure why you don't think the Pokemon writers care about storytelling, clearly they do unless I'm imagining all the praise XY is getting so far.

And that's a GOOD thing how?

I didn't say it was a good thing, it's just how Pokemon is. The show is over 15 years old, I'm not sure why you're expecting things to change.

 

[matt0044]

I watch the show. But to be honest I think Pokemon has more compelling plots. FIM is much more about teaching life lessons. Not sure why you don't think the Pokemon writers care about storytelling, clearly they do unless I'm imagining all the praise XY is getting so far.

Yes, so far XY is pretty decent but I'm not going to make the final yet. I was mostly referring to seasons before.

FiM does do that (very well, I might add) but it also doesn't skip out on writing a good story each episode with most substance to it that is first appears. There's a far greater sense of progress with the characters and stories unlike with Ash's endless journey. Again, the show's fandom speaks volumes on this.

I didn't say it was a good thing, it's just how Pokemon is. The show is over 15 years old, I'm not sure why you're expecting things to change.

Though I'd be nice, I don't really expect it. I'm just a lone guy, giving out my two cents on this particular subject.

 

[Winterdaze]

This thread is about COTDs, not your personal grievances about how the Pokemon anime measures up to the standards of western animation.

Also posting videos to mock other user's posts is pretty crass and petty. Get back on topic.

 

[garrison-san]

What Winterdaze said. Also:

If you guys want a show with lots of interesting character development and plot, then Pokemon isn't it. Never has been, never will be.

[video=youtube;gCxjwkBdBdI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCxjwkBdBdI[/video]

And that's a GOOD thing how?

Please don't mock other users' comments or opinions like that. It's neither clever nor cool.

 

[matt0044]

*sigh* I'm sorry. I got very carried away but I should've known better. I'll stop now.

I will say that CoTDs like Giselle and Duplica can be pretty memorable despite their minimum appearance.

 

[pokemon fan 132]

Whole issue about overusing characters of the day as standard redundant pattern can be in honestly pertained to constant cast changes too having no continuity, shallow story and ton of wasted potential with unfinished characters which never get used to their full capacity.
One of pokemon anime specialties.

COTD's as whole are not inherently bad idea by their nature. They can sometime help in bringing more excitement and upswing in Ash and co dynamics with various troubles or experiments gone wrong. Sometime help push story forward in case they are granted access to appear again in future and give us better insight in pokemon world, all kind of various careers other people pursue which aren't common to be seen on daily basis and expand on journey aspect of discovering all new places, pokemon, meet new people and cultures specific for some region or town.

However just like you can exaggerate with putting too much seasoning into dish, you can also cross the line with overused formula of constantly adding pointless one time characters which will never be seen again hurting chance of fleshing out more characters which are ones which truly matter the most(Ash and his friends), along with stealing moment of glory of saving day or resolving issue on their own. Instead of using that valuable extra time in giving less used and at times underdeveloped characters to shine on their own. Or God forbid taking some of wasted time in bringing replaced companions to give them update and more focus bringing more excitement and impact on plot.

Nothing is desireable in excessive doses.

Needless to say would it kill writers to change awfully predictable pattern with COTD's comprised mainly of "Ash meeting character, he has some problem with pokemon helping him to overcome his issues" rinse and repeat change with some more innovative and unpredictable way to use them?

Such as bringing back some of already used ones from past(like Eusine, Morrison from Hoenn league or Kathie, that girl really stumbled Ash) to add on more continuity driven and compact storyline making it feel like all regions are connected between themselves maintaining links with past sagas, thoses which played role in Ash and other lives and amount of growth he experienced there adding to more substantial story.

I personally don't see need to rely on dozen of pointless minor characters focusing more on main cast instead and exploring on various sides of their personalities, revealing new subplots from their past or dreams they are pursuing and bringing up issues of which viewers might not be aware of initially having them go through deeper more meaningful growth.
If other anime are something to go by writers there dedicate lot of time and effort in focus being used to flesh each character properly and unfold untold things about him and his history rather than wasting it on excessive number of non important characters taking away their time to shine and get proper growth. But than again such shows usually keep characters for multiple sagas, dive more in their stories receiving sequels, explore more on characterization and interactions through new and innovative ideas, having their characters go through changes and updates which prevents audience from becoming bored of it. Which is anyhing but policy known for pokemon series.

Where only minimum of effort and work is done filling up vast majority of time in each generation on episodes from which no one from main characters or antagonist benefit, but those in between random characters which we never see ever again. At least if they intend of continuing on this pattern make them more mermorable and stand out from each other being involved in main protagonist growth rather than other way around and turn some of them into recurring cast (i thought Duplica was decent).

 

[matt0044]

Such as bringing back some of already used ones from past(like Eusine, Morrison from Hoenn league or Kathie, that girl really stumbled Ash) to add on more continuity driven and compact storyline making it feel like all regions are connected between themselves maintaining links with past sagas, thoses which played role in Ash and other lives and amount of growth he experienced there adding to more substantial story.

Agreed. I would've liked it if we actually saw A.J. face Ash in the Indigo League.